if only "SL Answers" wasn't no reply....

The thing is, as long as someone doesn't post a new thread behind it, it's going to show up on the front page...where more people will end up reading it....

34 days 17 hours 20 minutes in a camping chair.

Or... about 2 minutes and $18.49 on Lindex.

Lewis

How do morons even find SL, download it, and can even find a job that will pay them enough to buy a computer to run it?

I had no problems whatsoever.

Lewis

This is the best picture ever. You made my morning.

Perhaps some of those who run the newbie building classes can take the time to explain why camping is bad to head the problem off at the get-go? I know most of those who are into camping are too toolish to go to a building class in the first place but it couldn't hurt to try.

Mabye you would like to start by explaining to LL that basic accounts need some money then? And that they should bring back the old system and reintroduce the L that basic accounts got. Camping chairs are a good thing in a sense. Newer players want to have money to buy things. Also these things you state in your anwers post could very well just be stuff that is happening in the Sim itself not as a result of just the camping chairs. As of late many sims have been having problems its a plain and simple fact. I am in a sim that could stand 37 people being in it without any chat lag and what not and then all of a sudden its unstable with 2.

Its been like this for the past few weeks now and the one week it seemed like they were fixing it but now it seems broken again. 27 people in all reality shouldnt do much unless the sim is over scripted. If its a casino his slot machines and stuff are likely to be more of the problem not the camping chairs. I'll state this. A good deal of sim lag is caused by poor scripting. Give it time to see if the sims actually restabalize soon to see what happens. I think you will find a good deal of the sims to be unstable as of late. And you honestly dont limit the resources a parcel can have simply because of its mass. If its a popular place compared to your place they may need more resources even if they are smaller. You know that as well as I do. And your point that he uses up the avatar limit doesnt work.

I know small shops that were popular and had people at them all the time without camping chairs. Having just visited your Shop (Abstract Avatars nice techy kind of av's btw ) I did find it to be lagging but it seems to be the same problem i experience in my home sim with just me and 1 other person in the Sim. A sim that didnt used to lag till the beginning of august. Yep your sim is no different in performance then what i've seen going on in countless sims over the past month. When its running like its supposed to be its great.

Also i'd like to point out you yourself are pulling more resources then you should of the sim as well. Your little Holo Vendors are actually lag inducing themselves as they are temp on rez. Temp on rez objects pull resources you shouldnt have when they re-rez/de-rez they cause lag. In fact right there is the cause of the sim lag you and him both having temp on rez stuff out that re-rezzes itself. Have you bothered looking at the sim stats when it lags and watching the objects at all? They go up Dil and Sim FPS go down. Its been happening in at a minimum 20 sims (as many as i've been in the last month) The only stable places were where one owned the entire sim.

You and the casino both have temp on rez stuff out. As does one of the other people in that sim. Also considering where your shop is your gunna get spam as the thing shouts and your shop isnt exactly 96m away from one of the spots. You have over 100 prims re-rezzing themselves and thats when i myself am noticing the spike in sim performance. Its happening elsewhere where there arnt even casino's though. Dont use that as an excuse to peg something on the camping chairs. I might detest them but people dont have 100% of the facts here. For someone that has been here since 04 i'd think you would also know better then to put up the signs you have around.

I can fly around your sim perfectly fine till that stuff rezzes. Then i get jerked around. This seems more the fault of the sim instablity that has been quite common over the last month though. Watch when your stuff flickers to re-rez and watch the sim stats. They coencide with one another. Temp on rez stuff can be as detrimental to a sim as horrid scripting if it needs to constantly re-rez more then a few prims. And your pushing over 200. You keep complaining about it being bad but in all honesty. I see nothing wrong with the sim when the objects dont need to re-rez. Sure bandwidth is a little more over by the casino but thats cuz there are people. I can get around fine. Your sim looks like everything else that has been going on as of late again though.

Another note not everyone comes here to build, script, or texture. Some sit in camp chairs while at work or what not so they have some extra L. As a premium account you see little reason for it but try being just a basic account now adays without the basic stipend or startup bonus. See how you would feel in all honesty. If you lacked the knowledge you have now what would you do?

Not everyone has that 18.49 to spend on lindex though.

well they might be giving the freebie money......in other ways..........(closes mouth) not saying a word............

Perhaps... but if you can afford $1000 on a computer and $50 a month on cable to play Second Life, one would tend to wonder quite whether it was such a problem to find $20. After all, if you want something badly enough, wouldn't you consider cutting back on one of the other many non-essential luxuries in your life? That's what.... one takeaway a week?

A lot of people think that their entitlement to play SL is a 'right' rather than a 'privilege' which, like many other things in life, is based on your ability to pay. After all, if SL took the model that successful MMORPG's employ, it wouldn't be possible to play forever for free.

Whilst inflating account numbers is no doubt one of Linden Lab's big targets (the magic million is always banded about), there is certainly a correlation with the downward slide of quality of overall gameplay experience with the no stipend/unverified accounts decision.

Lewis

Miss Pussycat:

I can't really make statements towards whether or not basic accounts need money but I can say hands down, without a doubt, if you want a "job," camping isn't the approach you have to do. If your goal is to not spend real USD to get L$ you're better off escorting to earn some cash, as you'll earn more and faster than you would sitting 24/7 on a camping chair.

If you can even manage to sit 24/7 without getting booted, cos oddly enough the sim where this particular casino's in has been crashing weirdly for the last few days. Huh.

Every other thing you mention, while potentially an issue, is nothing compared to the effect of 20/25/30 avatars in one spot. This is the singlemost biggest lag-creator in SL everything else notwithstanding. To say that "27 people won't do much" shows how little you know of the system. His casino is NOT popular, it's cheated to look that way because of the camping pads. I've yet to see anyone use his game machines besides ONE person the entire time I've been on that parcel, and trust me, I've been watching.

It would be one thing if he had a store or entertainment area or even a nightclub where there were 25 people who were at least DOING something. The lag would still annoy me, but at least it would be worth something because people were present and active and having a good time. 25 people, all of whom are AFK for pennies, is pathetic and a waste of resources that would be better spent by those who AREN'T at work, or washing their cat, or painting their bedrooms.

My vendors aren't holo at all, and I only have 4 temp-on-rez objects that are hand scripted to not lag. They're not part of the problem so don't blame them. The sim's been shitty before I even put them out and while I knew they wouldn't help anything, if it's already bad what's the point? I have no holo vendors at all, I have four "display" objects that unfortunately have to be temp because I have a total of 300 prims to my parcel. Trust me dear, I've been around long enough to know what needs to be done to create a lag-free environment. That's why my store is designed the way it is, to reduce lag through occlusion and proper scripting. But again, the problem predated me putting any scripted objects in whatsoever.

Thanks for the compliment about the avatars though.

And finally, if you don't come here to build, script or texture then there are plenty of other MMOGs where you don't have to do that. Second Life is not a place where you can slay orcs to get gold, you have to actually work. If you don't want to treat it like a big chatroom then you have to learn how to create. If you don't want to learn how to create then go someplace else, because the options are limited here for those who don't want to be creative. And I have no sympathy for "I just want to make a little money while I'm away!" when it's to the detriment of those who want to make a little money while they're here.

And spend a dollar and buy some L$ for fuck's sake.

OK, that made me laugh out loud this morning - is it because I didn't get enough sleep, or is it because it's really funny?

The problem is that it isn't that they don't have $20. That's not what they mean when they say "they can't afford it". It's just like people who say they "don't have time" to do stuff when they probably spend hours a week watching TV.

What they mean is that they don't have the motivation to buy, and that's more for other reasons. For example, a lot of people don't just want to buy a skin, they want to assume a social role - for instance, they want to be beautiful. Will buying that $20 skin make them beautiful? How long will they stay that way until the next one comes out? Will they be able to win contests or become a model or whatever goal they might have set for themselves, or will they still lose out to people who have paid for custom work or made their own, or maybe their skin was alright before? Bear in mind that if it doesn't turn out to be worth it to them $20 is a lot of money to waste - you could buy another entire game for that - and skins do tend to be no transfer.



There's a roleplaying game called Unknown Armies, which sadly now is out of print, where the author has some wonderful turns of phrase when explaining things. Like, the explanation of magic:

"It isn't enough to believe you can shoot magic blasts. It isn't even enough to know you can shoot magic blasts. You have to know you must be able to shoot magic blasts, because if you couldn't, the world wouldn't make any sense."

I think entitlement in SL is a lot like that for a lot of new people. They don't believe or know that they are entitled. Instead, they believe that they must be entitled, because if they weren't, how would it make any sense to have a Second Life? (A rather unfortunate consequence of the name...)

nimrod's gay. bwahaha.

According to statistics from a Town Hall, 75% of Second Life players do not create any content.

This may be because they are alts, but I think that the "big chatroom" angle appeals to a lot of people, as does having some greater control over their identity and environment.

I'm laughing hoping he'll get banned: "[7:19] Reality Control: it's forum apocalypse! just getting my absurdist rocks off while i can. "

*Muwah!*

So then fine, let it be a big chatroom, but don't bitch about not having any money or how you have the "right" to be given it by LL.

And the original post I made, the girl demanding that she should be given back her premium membership cost in L$, that's riotous.

If you want it to be a big chatroom and don't want to learn how to build you're fully allowed to do that. But don't waste server resources camping to get a dollar a week in pennies when you can just spend a real dollar and get money immediately. Or better yet, when you can sit in on a content creation class and learn how to make something so you'll get a lot more than pennies a week.

I personally never attended any classes; I started building before they offered them. I saw a weird tiny Kirby avatar and IM'd the guy who made it and asked him how he got the avatar so small. He sent me the suitcase animation and "Abstract Avatars" was born. But ORIGINALLY I just made weird tiny robot avatars for myself to wear and fly around in cos everyone said how weird it looked. Then it occured to me I could sell them.

Agreed 100%. I didn't come to SL to work - I have a RL job for that. I enjoy learning some things, but I prefer to simply enjoy. Camped for maybe 20 minutes total in the first week, and quickly figured out that was just plain boring and useless. So I went to the Lindex, where I discovered a much easier way of getting $L. But really, work in SL or work in RL and pay for $L to enjoy SL without work. Those are really the only sensible options.

Just making something doesn't guarantee that you'll get money. You don't hear very much about the failures but that's because, well, failure usually doesn't make the news. I don't know how many there are, it might be a very small proportion. But they do exist.

(Oh, and don't forget that you need L$ for uploads. Money trees can help, but so can camping.)

As for the camping arguments, I agree that camping is damaging to SL but just telling people that camping is bad probably isn't likely to be effective. After all, all the campers are fine with it. If you tell them all the reason why they shouldn't do it because it causes you a problem, they'll respond by telling you all the reasons why you shouldn't charge L$ for stuff because that causes them a problem too. Then you both go "hmph" and fold your arms and look in opposite directions.

What's needed is to either make it not worth it to camp, or not worth it to offer camping chairs. Because camping is basically free money the first one is impossible, so the second one needs to be the way to go.. unfortunately, it's difficult to work out how to do it without throwing out popularity ranking (remembering that it would need to be replaced with some other equitable ranking method). Well, there is another potential method that could work(antidwell), but it's.. (shudder).. too horrible to contemplate....

And that's what I'm doing, or did you miss my spam of posts to SL Answers?

Then again talk to the lindens about reinstating some moeny for basic accounts. I pay 95 usd a month tyvm. I also make things. Im just stating the obviousness of the fact that your things that rez/derez are actually doing so in relation to when the sim stats shoot down. You cannot deny that. Yes avatar's create lag but so do many many other things. A sim can handle close to 40 avatars with scripted object on if other factors in the Sim allow for it be it scripting, textures, temp on rez object or what have you.

As i stated before you and the casino both have temp on rez objects out and if those were out for as long as its been around there ya go. I didnt have a problem moving due to people it was when the objects had to re-rez that the sim fps and time dilation shot down and i got jerked around and could barely move. I know how the system works quite well. In fact me and my partner in SL run a club. And while you use temp on rez stuff cuz you dont have enough prims thats not anyones fault at all. You could stick them in vendors rather then having them float about if you really wanted to and that would help things some.

There are other factors in that sim that are causing lag. Particles about other people with temp on rez. Most of the avatars dancing there barely have any scripted objects on for that matter. I didnt go about this uneducated i actually went to your sim and poked around the entire sim and noticed a correlation between the objects rezzing and sim fps/time dilation shooting down. This causes a walking thru soup kind of effect and makes shopping near impossible. It stabalizes after the objects fully rez.

Now then..... I also stated that this has been common place in SL for about the last month or so. And that is true sadly =/. While Avatars do factor into it there is no reason that sim should be lagging in that manner it was even with the casino there. Also if the date you aquired the land is correct from what i see (system claims August 27th 2006 at 20:20) Its not suprising your seeing a problem. I get this in a sim without camping chairs tons of particles or overly scripted things and very few temp on rez objects. It started near the end of july/beginning of august

Again i visited your sim just now and there are more people there then there were before and i can still move around fine till the objects shoot up. However..... i also notice that the stuff in your shop correlates only to a small drop in the sim fps, likely that the other people in the sim werent as careful with the re-rezzing factor in that aspect. I dont notice a problem on my end at all unless that happens however. I'll just put up my system specs for the hell of it lol (kind of junk but ehh) Amd Sempron 2400+ running at 1.94 ghz, 2 gigs of Ram, 250 gig HD and a GeForce 6600 (agp edition) on a MSI K7N2 Delta2 motherboard. Not the best system but i dont have much of a problem in your sim with it.

I notice these problems in sims that dont have any problems with them. Its been that way for about a good month now and its starting to wear on me as the sim im in most of the time never lagged till this started. No new scripts added or anything and all of a sudden it just happens. Not everyone wants to be an escort or a dancer or whatever either and that is becoming less and less appealing with people having less money. Tips have gone down a bit as well for most jobs. From my experience in SL there is little reason that sim should be lagging with only 17-22 people in it.

Im standing there and as i said i can move around with no problem. In fact the sim itself seems to run pretty optimally when the sim fps/dil arnt dropped down (correlating to the objects spiking up more likely the ones near the casino or your neighbors then you as yours flicker and i dont notice a huge dip from them it is slight but not huge) As i stated though this has been happening to me in other sims as of late unless they were privately owned. Otherwise good operating sims for the last month have been pretty bad. Butler where the club resides is a good example. We went over a year with no problems and then all of a sudden it just starts going weird at the start of august.

We had a linden out to reset the sim and that seemed to fix it for a week till more updates came about. Then we started seeing it happen again. I also rezzed almost instantaneously upon arrival to your shop in fact Im going to clear the cache just to test it.....Again with a cleared cache the stuff loaded fast. Chat lag isnt usually a sim problem its usually something on the clients end due to a problem communicating with SL. Packet loss is usually happening in that sense and thats not very often due to the sim itself.

I stood in that sim for a good while and didnt notice any major problems. Nothing that would warrant trying to get rid of the casino. Also if the land owners there are unhappy with it it is for sale you could buy it and simple get rid of it really. I'd in all honesty have a linden look around the sim and possibly reboot the sim to see how the performance is after. It could be that the sim needs a reset plain and simple. It happens from time to time and i have seen it a good deal as of late.

Again, the temp scripts are coded as best as they can be. Forgive me for wanting to put five avatars actually on display so that people can see what they look like considering they're a pretty unique idea and people often ask me "so these are like tiny?"

Putting them in a vendor won't show anyone what they look like and my five temps aren't the bulk of the problem. If you have extra prims I'm more than happy for you to donate some to me so I don't need to have anything temp.

I don't care if the guy runs a casino, I care about the camping devices. That the casino is ugly as fuck is a different issue.

It's not my responsibility to tell LL what to do about the stipends. I've been on a basic account for two years now and money's not an issue for me. If I need it I can buy it, but I generally make the stuff I wear anyway. I like it better that way.

I don't really have time to discuss this with someone who's advocating camping. Even when you get past what it does to sim performance, it's cheating. Plain and simple. So you can say "it's not the campers!!" all you want (though it is), but even putting that aside it's cheating.

Alot of people that join SL these days may not be able to buy money hence why they target a freebie account. Many arnt creative and come here for social reasons as well. Im just pointing out the fact again that watching the sim stats the objects correlate with the sim statistics shooting down. You have some out the casino has some out and at least 1 of your neighbors has some. Again im pointing out the correlation with objects and sim fps/dil. Most people that are in sims dont like zero prim rezzers for a reason.

A good number of people also were raised in the MMORPG enviroment that come to SL. I myself was one of them when i joined. I came to SL thinking buying money proves a weakness. I learned that to not be the case in SL but that was the think i had till i learned better. Im not stating you alone are at fault but 22-27 people in a sim really isnt going to have as bad a bearing on the sim as you would like to believe. Its a combination of things its not just the people. People do pull resources sure but there are things that effect the sim aside from just people.

Could be due to poor scripting and numerous other things. They all factor into it really. I've been to some stores and othre places that were poorly scripted enough to lag horribly with just me there. Im not advocating camping Im simply stating there are other factors that can lead to lag and that you shouldnt simply peg all sim problems on the camping place just because its there and has people in the sim. Also yeah it takes advantage of the traffic system but that doesnt make it cheating they just found a way to increase their traffic. They are using the system that is there to their advantage plain and simple.

LL do need a better system though. And i think in all reality they need to make some things easier for basic accounts/newbies as far as monetary stuff goes because as a basic account camping chairs look mighty good at first till you learn a bit more about SL.