These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE
Yay for discrimination in SL! \o/ |
|
Pyrii Akula
NO PANTS!
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 187
|
02-28-2006 09:04
To be honest, I don't see real discrimination, but maybe instead see intolerance.
|
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 09:19
Just like a black person is black they can't change it. If I changed how I look, most people would not recognise me. I think the arguments that people should change their appearance (ex clothes/attachment) just as easily as you would change to be within "dress code" is a bad example, that is changing clothes. I change my clothes based on what's going on or where I am. But I'm still a bunny. I want rid of this notion that everybody is willing to just change identity as easy as changing clothes. Changing clothing is fine, taking off that penis attachment is polite. Would you expect a black man to paint himself white to comply with a club's rules of "White's only"? (I know people have talked about blurring the boundary between RL and SL comparisons, but this is identity. People in SL should not be expected to change their identity easily if they don't wish). Man. First, changing an av is in no way similar to asking a RL person of any color to paint themselves any other color for admittance to anything. Second, there is a name floating over your head, people will probably know who you are. Third, you are only expected to change your avie if you go to their PRIVATE land, which is fully your choice to do or not to do. You are not your avies, People. You are the personality that animates them. Changing your virtual appearance does not rob you of your personality. _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
Pyrii Akula
NO PANTS!
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 187
|
02-28-2006 09:23
I was talking about identity. Everyone is different, some people can easily change thier appearance and identity to fit other places, some prefer to keep the same identity wherever they go, as I said, if they get faced with the rules and feel they cannot follow them, they should leave, if they aren't faced with rules for the sim, someone should show them to that person. And ask them to politely leave.
|
Psyra Extraordinaire
Corra Nacunda Chieftain
![]() Join date: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,533
|
02-28-2006 09:29
Look, I'm not here to bash gorean culture or policy. What I'm here for is to express the fact I'm a little upset that they will ban me on sight for being just what I am. Think of it as a formal restaurant. You walk in wearing cutoff jeans and a Tee shirt, they're going to ask you to leave. Dress appropriately, and you have no problems. _____________________
E-Mail Psyra at psyralbakor_at_yahoo_dot_com, Visit my Webpage at www.psyra.ca
![]() Visit me in-world at the Avaria sims, in Grendel's Children! ^^ |
Creami Cannoli
Please don't eat me....
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 414
|
02-28-2006 09:41
It is not going to kill you to change out of your "standard" avatar to follow the rules in a Gorean SIm. Really, it won't.You'd be in the sim for maybe 20 minutes tops?
You'll live. Respect thier wishes and quit whining. I have a furry av for the few random times I have gone to a furry sim. It's really not a big deal. And if you are THAT hung up on your av's appearance, then you should take a break. |
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 09:51
if they get faced with the rules and feel they cannot follow them, they should leave, if they aren't faced with rules for the sim, someone should show them to that person. And ask them to politely leave. Agreed on the first part. In a nice world the rest makes sense, however they really aren't under any obligation to post rules or be polite. It would probably be to their overall benefit, but that is up to them. Obviously, the individual in question was informed of the rules or we wouldn't be having this discussion. _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
Pyrii Akula
NO PANTS!
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 187
|
02-28-2006 09:51
Think of it as a formal restaurant. You walk in wearing cutoff jeans and a Tee shirt, they're going to ask you to leave. Dress appropriately, and you have no problems. It is not going to kill you to change out of your "standard" avatar to follow the rules in a Gorean SIm. Really, it won't.You'd be in the sim for maybe 20 minutes tops? You'll live. Respect thier wishes and quit whining. I have a furry av for the few random times I have gone to a furry sim. It's really not a big deal. And if you are THAT hung up on your av's appearance, then you should take a break. HELLO BRICK WALL! *bangs head against it* |
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 09:53
HELLO BRICK WALL! *bangs head against it* Same here, so there ![]() _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
Creami Cannoli
Please don't eat me....
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 414
|
02-28-2006 09:53
/me throws ibuprofen into the thead to help the pain.
|
Pyrii Akula
NO PANTS!
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 187
|
02-28-2006 10:00
Agreed on the first part. In a nice world the rest makes sense, however they really aren't under any obligation to post rules or be polite. It would probably be to their overall benefit, but that is up to them. Obviously, the individual in question was informed of the rules or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Well it's just common courtesy really, if you want to come off as an ass, don't follow it. I'm not trying to say who's right or wrong, just looking at both sides of the argument and giving some constructive advice to help both of your groups come off better. Prevent further problems. People keep going on about what's is or is not inthe TOS and forget just plain common courtesy when online, there are real people behind every single avatar, you wouldn't badmouth them to thier face, why do it online for example. I already know quite a few people and groups that are disliked, just by word of mouth. There may be a few thousand people ehre, but ti's still a community, and like an idiot and you may find yourself shunned by parts of the community. |
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 10:08
People keep going on about what's is or is not inthe TOS and forget just plain common courtesy when online I'm just an observer, I don't really care what any of them do. Common decency is a lost art and is always appreciated, but is not required. Additionally, the TOS is the guideline since we obviously all don't agree on what exactly common courtesy entails or the degree to which we need to apply it. _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
Pyrii Akula
NO PANTS!
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 187
|
02-28-2006 10:13
Exactly, oh, and for those people that aren't reading what I spent a good half hour/45 minutes typing, here's a comparison for you as you enjoy them so much.
You own a pub and you're having a fancy dress party, someone comes in without a fancy dress. Would you: a.) Let them stay, it's not much of a bother (Unless they are a bother, then you would go to b,c or d) b.) Kindly ask them to leave as there's a dress code for the evening. c.) Tell them to "F*** Off" they should know there's a fancy dress on. d.) Without warning grab them and physically throw them out. To be honest, none of these detract fromthe various arguments I've seen in this thread, but which sounds better? Of course a visa-versa might be more apropriate, but still same argument. |
Sneak Dulce
Mentor
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 49
|
02-28-2006 12:25
While I can understand your point crystal..its a hyperbole. Furries simply didn't exist in the books that the rp is based on. Why should they be allowed to participate if they want to keep it 'book-true?' I'm sure if a fuyy sim said only furries or some form of animal then furries wouldn't consider -that- discriminatory. Or would they? You might want to read the books again, a creature that could be termed a furry, does exist in the books, I have read them myself, and played in Gor sims myself. And I've not come across a furry only sim yet myself. All I can really say though, is if they don't want to allow furry people in the sims, then they are missing out a a great population of people that can contribute to good RP. |
Eirinn Overdrive
Woodland Guide
Join date: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 19
|
02-28-2006 12:45
It's just a question about being nice to each others. You are not oblidged to by the TOS, but your are oblidgated to it as a normal human being (yes, you are a human outside the comp!). There's no reason to be a bigger idiot jsut because it's virtual.
Also, it's a thin line, if a person views him/herself as a furry or lets say a black person would harassing them be wrong? Well, yes. Basicly the TOS states that if you hinder someone from going on with your second life you're breaking the rules. Of course, this rule hits both the fur and the gor. If there was a Nazi sim in SL i think that Sim would be shut down PRETTY fast. The furry fandom is something precious to some ppl, it's not just the same as saying, just change your clothes, by doing so the person will have lost some identity. I think thats what Pyrii means. |
vivi Odets
Flibbertigibbet
![]() Join date: 4 Sep 2005
Posts: 698
|
02-28-2006 13:00
... You own a pub and you're having a fancy dress party, someone comes in without a fancy dress. Would you: a.) Let them stay, it's not much of a bother (Unless they are a bother, then you would go to b,c or d) And, I'd check their profile to see it they're a newb... in which case I'd welcome them to SL, to our Club, and lavish them with some free stuff from my inventory, including a gently worn gown or two. (You know the old saying: You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar!) |
Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
![]() Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
|
02-28-2006 13:01
No seriously... think about it: If its "ok" to force anyone to change their avatars on your land because you own it... what would that mean in a year or two? Would we have to change avatars and cloths for each and every parcel we enter? Would we have to conform with rules and regulations for every sim we try to bounce into? After all, its "fine"! You werent born with your avatar. You can easily change it. Click click click you're someone else. Naturaly it should be fine to enforce clothing and appearence regulations for each and every zone in SecondLife. Want to enter a club? Wear bling or be banned. Want to enter a mall? Wear this ID tag so we can follow your shopping habbits. And take off that hat, its nasty. Want to enter this lecture? Take off your tail. Want to enter this forest themed zone? Wear this furry avatar or get lost. Click click click. Its not like your avatar is an off-shoot of your identity... or is it? I think it's more a question of "what would be the benefit of doing any of this?" Obviously, such practices are divisive and unlikely to attract many people to whatever you're trying to attract them to. This works for the Goreans because, quite frankly, they don't want you, in a general sense - they don't want anything to "disturb" the theme. Which, whatever my opinions on Gor itself, isn't totally unreasonable - the more "neutral" scenario of someone trying to insert a 24th century android into someone's 19th century steampunk setting has been mentioned. However, beyond that very specific scenario (a "theme" you don't wish to break) I don't see this kind of restriction going far. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
prak Curie
----------
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 346
|
02-28-2006 14:00
Exactly, oh, and for those people that aren't reading what I spent a good half hour/45 minutes typing, here's a comparison for you as you enjoy them so much. "Whatever advice you give, be brief." _____________________
-prak
|
Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
|
02-28-2006 16:13
Basicly the TOS states that if you hinder someone from going on with your second life you're breaking the rules. Of course, this rule hits both the fur and the gor. Does anyone actually read the TOS? The TOS says almost nothing about this, but the community standards do: Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images in reference to another Resident's race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is never allowed in Second Life. Strictly speaking, furryism doesn't fall under race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation (does it?). If there was a Nazi sim in SL i think that Sim would be shut down PRETTY fast. *ding!* We have another winner! Someone kindly reset the Hitler clock. The furry fandom is something precious to some ppl, it's not just the same as saying, just change your clothes, by doing so the person will have lost some identity. I think thats what Pyrii means. No one is denying it's precious to some people. Just as some people's Gor character is precious to them. But said Gor people, I hope, would realize that they should limit their appearance and behavior if they decide to visit the Welcome Area. Frankly, I have to agree with an earlier poster. I find that identifying so strongly with your avatar is, well, unhealthy. _____________________
============
Broadly offensive. |
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
![]() Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
02-28-2006 16:17
Strictly speaking, furryism doesn't fall under ... sexual orientation (does it?). Some might actually argue this point (both furry and non-furry). ... What? Someone had to mention it. ![]() _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
|
02-28-2006 16:31
Some might actually argue this point (both furry and non-furry). ... What? Someone had to mention it. ![]() Mmmhmmm... but I was always told it's not about that *smiles innocently* Same goes for Gor ![]() _____________________
============
Broadly offensive. |
Tikki Kerensky
Insane critter
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 687
|
02-28-2006 17:03
I'm pretty much into furry for the sex. *nod*
(okay, mabey not) _____________________
Pudding takes away the pain, the pain of not having pudding.
|
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
|
02-28-2006 17:38
You might want to read the books again, a creature that could be termed a furry, does exist in the books, I have read them myself, and played in Gor sims myself. The Kurii, NOT FOUND IN CITIES AND EAT THE HUMAN POPULATION as a delicacy. No they would be hunted down and killed. Oops there goes your theory. All I can really say though, is if they don't want to allow furry people in the sims, then they are missing out a a great population of people that can contribute to good RP. But staying true to the roleplay they intended to make, improving that roleplay rather than decentralizing and deteriorating it. In short gor = no furries |
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
|
02-28-2006 17:40
The furry fandom is something precious to some ppl, it's not just the same as saying, just change your clothes, by doing so the person will have lost some identity. I think thats what Pyrii means. Doesn't matter an iota (or even a prim). A gor sim has certian rules..98% of the other sims won't care. Go there instead of whining. |
Artemis Fate
I'm a big stupid-face.
![]() Join date: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 746
|
02-28-2006 19:25
I think where Gor would get more problems over discrimination against Furries and all that jazz, which is fantasy group and not much to be done there cause it's their choice.
But i've seen and been subject of a few times discrimination for being a woman. Can't go here, can't do this or that, etc. But I don't think they do it prominantely enough to cause problems. _____________________
![]() Ko Industries, unique clothes for the unique woman: Ko Industries: Nexus Prime Gibson (main) store "Be still like a mountain, and flow like a great river" -Lao Tse "Deus Ex Machina" "Dom Ars Est Vita Est" "Stand tall and Shake the heavens" -Xenogears |
David Cartier
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
|
02-28-2006 21:40
Go to furry areas without a furry av and see how welcome you are there. Not very, seems to be a pretty common experience.
|