Yay for discrimination in SL! \o/

I think the one thing that makes a good roleplayer from a bad roleplayer is imagination. In Gor, the books have set that there are aliens (atleast 2 different species of sentient ones) that both have the ability to travel through space, one of which is even described as large and furry. Now this definately allows for otherworldy creatures to walk around if the roleplayers are good and have imagination. However if the roleplayers are poor and only can concieve of roleplay based on preconcieved books, then they might come up with something like this for their guests that are clearly labeled as not a part of the roleplay:

"Guests should be human in appearance and civilized in manner. No dragons, giant robots, or werewolves, or please. In addition, child avatars (depicting people less than 18 years of age) are prohibited; see the Laws and Rules for specifics."

Secondly, let me point out that it's understandable to be wary about a 50m dragon or robot, or maybe even a 10 foot cat with a walking stick. But don't you think it's a tad odd and unnecessary to go haywire at the sight of a completely normal looking person except for having a cat tail and ears? Certainly gorean roleplayers can ignore something as simple as that when they have a titler on?

As it comes down to it, the rules were simply set up to be discriminatory to other groups, and goreans even set up a group for it called "No Disney Gor" which are comprised of people who don't like furries and other non humans.

Again, i'm not saying they don't have the right to do it. I'm just saying take it as it is: a group of people who ernestly dislike another group of people in SL.

I've always seen something... other than the dude with his hands in the air. Maybe that's just me and I'm a perv, I dunno.

hehe

Artemis Fate



Sorry again to have to disagree with you Artemis, but I am a member of No Disney Gor, and to ME, it simply means trying to roleplay as STRICTLY as possible to the themes of the books. Now you can believe what you will, and whereas there may be some people in ANY group who dislike furries or other non humans, all i can say is that I have no problem with anyone in SL, which is the reason that I wouldn't make blanket statements regarding people in groups.

reply to OP.

Their loss, seriously their sim, their dwell, their loss. I think we will see more and more of this unforutunatly. Why? Because ppl want to play gawd with their sims. They want total control over what happens. Some ppl like me always allow everyone to do what ever the heck they want, others well they don't. Everyone is welcome in The Sewer especialy rats lol. Which btw I need some rat, mouse etc av's if anyone wants to drop me one I will love you forever I can offer a free space or three for fur type vendors in exchange. So many sims so little time, don't bother with the ones that don't want "your kind" instead seek out other sims. Might be suprized by what you find.

Live and let live folks!

Cat

I vote for this as best question in the thread.


Interestingly, I've been all over the Gor themed sims in my usual calico kitty av. I've never been asked to leave, change avs, nothing. (and I don't wear the tag... I admit it's a tad rude to do that, but I figure the kitty av is enough) I even get polite greetings.

I have friends who have been asked (and in a couple of cases, more than simply asked) to leave for:

1. "Drow skinned" avatar
   
2. Furry av
   
3. Female human av, armed with guns (lots and lots of guns).
   
4. Female human av, armed with swords (specific complaint: Too many of them. She never did find out what the limit was.)
   
5. Female human av with male human av in tow via scripted chain collar. (Heh.)
   

Y'know, though I don't consider it "discrimination" to be so choosy about who gets to be on your island sim, I do think the Gor folks would be better served with one open to the public sim and the rest invisible, hidden sims. It would let 'em have what they want (the reason for the exclusivity, they want to get completely into their role play without having to worry about dealing with offended/freaked/preachy/not-part-of-the-game passerby) without attracting folks who just want to lookie-see.

Just my 2L$.

Well obviously "Disney" is refering to furries because some furry avatars resemble disney art like Simba and such.

But if you're following the books, how come Kurii avatars aren't allowed?

"An alien race, the Kurii, wish to conquer both worlds. "Kurii" is a Gorean corruption of their own name for themselves and in Gorean it means "beasts." "Kur" is the singular form of this word. They are also sometimes called the "Others" by those less familiar with them. There are two primary types of Kurii, those of the Steel Worlds and those living on Gor, some which are now native after several generations on Gor. The Kurii are the great enemies of the Gorean series and serve as villains in a fair number of the books. "

And these are described as:

"Kurii usually range from seven to nine feet tall and weigh from seven to nine hundred pounds. Their arms are longer and larger than their legs. Their biceps are commonly about eight inches wide and their wrists are about five inches wide. Their hands are clawed and pawlike with six digits, extra-jointed, and almost like tentacles. These hand claws are usually filed allowing them to better able use tools and technological items. Most Kur are right-handed as the left hemisphere of their brain is dominant. Their hind legs are eight to ten inches wide. Though their legs are short, with their arms they can move on all fours rapidly like an ape. For short distances it can even outrun a tarsk. They are also excellent climbers. The claws on its feet are retractable, usually not filed and over four inches long. Their most common fur color is dark brown though they can also be brownish red, sable or white. A mottling of white in their coloration commonly denotes disease. "

This would encompass the werewolf avs described as not allowed in the previous quote from the Ar rules. Now, why is it when you're so adament about following the books that you conveniently leave out these to the point of banning anyone like that on sight?

Or is it that you only follow the book when it suits you and ignore it when it doesn't. And why would one do that? The only reason I can see is a dislike for the idea that furries would be allowed in the sim.

I didn't see any free clothing but I'm not exactly extravagantly dressed, thus I have had no problems in Port Cos with my "observer" badge.

I'm interested because, for the Victorian London steampunk sim that is being planned, a certain set of behaviours and appearances would be preferred, and I am curious as to how this is taking place in Gorean areas. So far all contact has been very polite.

Oh quit your whining. They pay for the sim they can kick anyone out or make any limits they want.

While this doesn't allow discrimination (which this isn't), its an IMMERSIVE ROLEPLAY ENVIRONMENT. Stick to the setting, even default av with cheap freebie clothes or stop your complaining.

Artemis....I've been in Gorean sims where Kurii HAVE entered...and been roleplay "hunted". Again, PERSONALLY, I have no problem with THAT form of roleplay. However, someone wearing a werewolf av with no knowledge of the "backstory" does not make for a decent addition to the theme.
I'm inworld at present, and just did a quick look at your profile...



I think that says it all. I hadn't realised you felt THAT strongly. I see that you're also keen on the cyberpunk thing. I guess its simply horses for courses. So i think we need to agree to disagree.
PS.... I still like YOU....
Turgar...out!

I have a specific example, and that is the example of the sim Vonda.

This sim Vonda had a few things that all of the other gorean sims ignored, it had Kurii, Priest Kings, and a black caste of assassins (all of which mentioned in the book).

The sim was still in the building stages when goreans from the established gor sims came in, saw that Kurii were allowed and furries were tolerated within reason, and began to scream "Disney gor!" and launched numerous attacks on the sim and generally insulted it without end.

Many of the Kurii and the Priest Kings knew more about the book gor then the ones who came in, but the simple fact that they were roleplaying a gor with it's aspects that are besides sex and violence and tolerated furries, made it unacceptable to the "No disney gor" people.

Every Gorean city is different, at least to some extent - there is not a uniform Gor-wide code of laws, nor is there uniform interpretation of what little common law does exist.

That said, every Gorean city I've visited has a single entry point with a mechanism that automatically gives arrivals a notecard with a summary of the rules. Those Gorean cities that allow guests (not all do) also hand out guest titlers.

What being a guest means, and what the guest titler gets you, varies from city to city. The Guard in some cities is more aggressive than the Guard in others; individual members of the Guard also vary in their diplomatic skills.

A visitor, particularly one who is standing out from the rest, whether simply wearing a cat's tail, or walking a 50 foot mech, likely will be met first by a Guardsman. If he's been a member of the Guard for any length of time, he's dealt with dozens, perhaps hundreds (literally) of people who derive entertainment from disrupting the role play in Gorean cities. He is not likely to start with the most positive of assumptions.

That does not justify rude or hostile behavior, but it may go to explain why some wearing furry avatars are treated less well than they perceive themselves to deserve.

Many furries, most in my experience, were willing to switch back to a human avatar for the duration of their visit, after I explained the situation. We've had visits from Daleks, who were considerate enough to switch back to human for the duration. We even had a team from the Alliance Navy visit, and our accomodation with them was that they keep their modern weaponry out of sight.

I can't speak for every person in a Gorean city, of course, but for the ones I know, it isn't a matter of liking or disliking furries or other life styles. More than one Gorean role-plays at being a vampire when away from Gor - but that's the point, "when away from Gor." One of our respected Guardsmen is a furry when he's away from Gor - but when he's in Gor, on duty, he's one of those who escort furries out.

Wear a human avatar and conservative clothing, and visit Glorious Ar (or the other Gorean city of your choice.) Most places are happy to see visitors who are really just visiting. Certainly we in Ar are pleased to help newcomers adapt to the role-play and understand the lifestyle.

Hans

You're quite the diplomat! Very interesting and informative post, thank you for sharing all of that. I now understand the situation a bit better and sympathize even further with the landowners in question.

Artemis
Well...having not been around there, then I can't speak for what happened. Again, if the sim owner of Vonda had WANTED furries allowed...and Kurii, then that would have been his\her RIGHT. I have no problem with it. Thats what owning a sim is about.
Again, I'm simply pointing out that you seem to be painting EVERYONE in Gor in the same light, instead of accepting that the way each chooses to roleplay THEIR Gor, is completely up to them.
You don't like Goreans........cool.......
I don't dislike furries.......also cool.
Some Gorean sim owners choose not to allow non human avs.......their choice.
Some Gorean sim owners choose TOO allow non human avs....their choice.

I can't really see a problem.

Alright, Edo, you just made my sig. <milk and cheetos spewage>

This thread is awesome!!

I'll grant you that not all goreans hate furries. I know that there's 94 that do atleast (the charter of No Disney Gorean). What I am saying is that there is a definate dislike for furries around gorean sims, as well as other non-human avatars. Why else ban them from entering EVEN if they have a title that says they specifically abstain from RP and are effectively invisible by roleplaying eyes. And therein we shouldn't try to hide this under a "It's just trying to keep a roleplaying enviornment" veil, because i've already shown how non-humans can easily fit into gor even with going by the book. Not all goreans hate furries and non-humans, but apparently all gorean sim owners do and show that by not allowing them in even as an observer.

Yeah, that happened to me a couple of days ago in Port Kar. Where, I might add, they had *neither* a notecard-giver nor a guest titler at the entryway, and frankly, the place looks and has a reputation for being all "disney" and shopping -- like, it *was* Gor but somebody bought it and made it a Gor theme park kind of place? I got this huffy "did you read the notecard?" kind of thing from some first sword guy. Had a distinct "go sit in the back of the bus" feel to it, too, but maybe you had to be there. MHO is, if you're gonna have rules, you should probably oughta let people *know* about them or you kinda look like an idiot.

Jess

Artemis
Ok.....final post from me in reply.......for the last time, please stop blanket assuming. Even tho I've stated Im a member of No Disney Gor...and MY view of its motives, you still push the claim that ALL members are "furry haters". Wrong.
And you might also check the website you quoted from earlier and scroll down further.

Kurii do not walk the streets of Gorean cities. They may sometimes be hidden within
buildings in some cities but they do not walk around freely, even in those buildings.
Few Goreans know of their war with the Priest-Kings or much about them at all.
Most Goreans would view them as animals or monsters that should be destroyed.

Anyway..... I wish you well, and trust you continue to enjoy YOUR Second Life.

(Rather than bore the pants (furry or otherwise off anyone else in forum, please feel free to im me in world if you want to carry the conversation on...more than happy to chat..)

Port Kar has a notecard and titler giver at the landing point entrance.. unless you use a prim or flight script to pass through a wall, you'd get them. So jessica, unless BOTH were failing to run at the moment, then you have just been caught lying.

I think I must be wrong about the no disney gor group then. The impression I got of Disney gor was when it was first shouted at the kurii in Vonda after of which the shouters went into a long rant about how furries are sick. Besides that every reference i've seen to disney gor has been in reference to furries or cat-girls.

So what is No Disney Gor about then if not keeping furries out of the gor sims even as observers?

Also I never said that the Kurii were walking the streets, the sim had a large forest and mountains that they sticked too. But that's not to say that no gorean ever dealt with a Kurii, Tarl fought along side one once in the books.

It may well have one / both *now*. It did not have one / both earlier this week. Or perhaps it did not have one / both that worked reliably. I'm not sure what you are referring to by "prim or flight script to pass through a wall", but I did not do anything to try to evade receiving a notecard or titler -- the No Fly restriction certainly applied to me when I arrived. I simply did not receive these things when I arrived.

Call me a liar if you like -- anyone who knows me knows I'm honest. It's not a reputation I'd slag over something stupid like this.

Jess

Racism violates the TOS. Disallowing furries doesn't.

I have been studying a Griefing event that occured this morning, and then the appearence of this thread soon after.



comments questions???

I have a collection of titlers from Port Kar as it gives one every time. they go bakc over a month. So yes, my comment includes earlier this week.

Given that fact I have to dismiss your comment as an out and out falsehood.

note: no flight can be gotten around, I'm not the only one with the capacity

All I have to say in terms of Magnum's sense of two events being related.