Hamlet names "The Power Elite" of Second Life
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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04-19-2006 04:49
One thing about LL that has always perplexed me is their penchant for lists of this nature. Whether it was the leader boards or whatnot, it's always puzzled me why people who are based in the Bay Area wouldn't be a little more forward thinking and not embrace the Hollywood mentality. "Power Elite" is a terrible choice of words. I realize that Hamlet is no longer a Linden, but its going to piss people off nevertheless, especially those who look for things like this to hold up as examples of what they think is wrong with SL. Like Siggy said, fodder. Doh! A list of this nature is, in and of itself divisive, even without that ill conceived title.
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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04-19-2006 05:23
From: Phaylen Fairchild I see negative reprocussions coming from a once Linden nameholder issuing a an elitist list. I see it as very different than a Fortune 500 list, or a list of those whose impact on our society has changed the world, shifted it's direction, or affected our method of usership. When Anshe Chung begame very successful in her endeavors using incredibly smart business savvy- and the Linden Lab openly acknowledged her as an entity unto her own, she became the most despised figure in the History of Sl, despite having committed no deliberate acts against any singular entity. Because of being openly lauded by Linden Lab, she became openly, and widely criticsized for her success, enduring community alienation, mocking, dodging vicious accusations and character attacks in mass. I think if the Linde Lab had not so blatantly offered her special attention and backed her visibility, the nature of the community would have not been nearly as hostile. I see this in very same much the same light as child-like jealousy- when in gradeschool, all the kids hated the golden student who stood at the Teachers right side. Our community still suffers this mentality to a great degree and a lot of good people are ostcsized - even descriminated against - for being spotlighted by employees of Linden Lab. It's very much a double edged sword, being in their graces. An elite list is not empowering to the community, in fact, instead it's damaging to all involved. Hamelt, you've already been witness to various attacks by those angry they or someone they loved were not included, and these people you have spotlighted recieve community backlash, deemed self important "FIC" members with Linden Lab in their pockets. This in turn pits the community at large against a few people here who simply enjoy what they're doing and have found their niche- along with success. I much more agree with involving the community in such a list should there be one, instead of trying to be the definitive. In doing this you are inviting a wider spectrum, if not altogether a more accurate assessment of WHO has impacted the community, not who has impacted you. I would expect something like this from a SL tabloid site rather than a previously officially sanctioned Linden Lab. I support anything that invites community interaction and participation, allowing their voices to be heard regardless... Taking it upon yourself to exalt a localized crowd in your social circle above the rest of the community only promotes a combative, contentious atmosphere. Phaylen, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to contest much of what you have said. Maybe it's because you were away from the world for a long period of time, but your asertions about why Anshe became a figure of ridicule and hatred simply are not true. Those opinions formed because of her actions, not towards any particular individual but to a whole multitude. I don't quite understand what you say about Linden Lab "acknowledged her as an entity unto her own". That's something that everybody here has. There shouldn't be a list at all, although people do seem to like creating them. They are meaningless. In the same way that your recent awards ceremony was decided by a miniscule section of the community and is meaningless, this is just as invalid as it's decided by one single entity, with obvious bias towards his friends, and with a need to self-promote. He has purposefully done this to create discord, ensuring that he's talked about. I can't, however, agree that this is damaging. It's just plain laughable. Hamlet's not getting enough attention any more and he doesn't like it, so this is his way of forcing himself back to being, what I guess he considers, relevant.
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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04-19-2006 05:38
So Hamlet is stealing "story" ideas from People Magazine now? I'm shocked!  Next week: The Best and Worst Dressed of SL by Hamlet "Canned" Au.
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Crissaegrim Clutterbuck
Dancing Martian Warlord
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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04-19-2006 05:48
Bah! Top 100 people who have the same continuous conversation with each other on these forums, whatever the topic. Now there's journo pron-drama.
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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
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04-19-2006 05:54
From: Moopf Murray Phaylen, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to contest much of what you have said. Maybe it's because you were away from the world for a long period of time, but your asertions about why Anshe became a figure of ridicule and hatred simply are not true. Those opinions formed because of her actions, not towards any particular individual but to a whole multitude. I don't quite understand what you say about Linden Lab "acknowledged her as an entity unto her own". That's something that everybody here has.
There shouldn't be a list at all, although people do seem to like creating them. They are meaningless. In the same way that your recent awards ceremony was decided by a miniscule section of the community and is meaningless, this is just as invalid as it's decided by one single entity, with obvious bias towards his friends, and with a need to self-promote. He has purposefully done this to create discord, ensuring that he's talked about.
I can't, however, agree that this is damaging. It's just plain laughable. Hamlet's not getting enough attention any more and he doesn't like it, so this is his way of forcing himself back to being, what I guess he considers, relevant. Moopf, once again your own perceptions regarding me are irrepairably skewed. I never set out to indulge myself and exalt my opinion in a matter where I utilize said opinions to appoint others to a place of honor. From the beginning my event was community driven, and it was up to the community -wether or not they chose to participate- the information was there in the broadest terms possible. And; It was not a "Best Of" show, I did not deem anyone a "Winner" it was the community - that participated- honoring the efforts of one another, and awards were distributed in that respect, NOTED as achievements. Much in the same way of the old time Avatar contests or Building contests, people nominated and voted for each other, no difference... any situation operated under the conditions where the community involved has the right to participate and effect the outcome I support and encourage. You have the right to choose not to approve community events, just as I choose not to approve of or participate in self-made heirarchy lists. To make any parallels regarding my community event and Hamlets Elitist List is simply heinous, and totally without merit. Regarding Anshe. you could very well be right, I will not contest that whatsoever. I can only go by my perception and experience with her, her supporters, and her opposition. But, I won't diminish anyone simply because it seems to be majority opinion. Like many others, I'm not a lemming.
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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04-19-2006 06:34
From: Phaylen Fairchild Moopf, once again your own perceptions regarding me are irrepairably skewed. I never set out to indulge myself and exalt my opinion in a matter where I utilize said opinions to appoint others to a place of honor. From the beginning my event was community driven, and it was up to the community -wether or not they chose to participate- the information was there in the broadest terms possible. And; It was not a "Best Of" show, I did not deem anyone a "Winner" it was the community -that participated- honoring the efforts of one another, and awards were distributed in that respect, NOTED as achievements. Much in the same way of the old time Avatar contests or Building contests, people nominated and voted for each other, no difference... any situation operated under the conditions where the community involved has the right to participate and effect the outcome I support and encourage. You have the right to choose not to approve community events, just as I choose not to approve of or participate in self-made heirarchy lists. To make any parallels regarding my community event and Hamlets Elitist List is simply heinous, and totally without merit. Regarding Anshe. you could very well be right, I will not contest that whatsoever. I can only go by my perception and experience with her, her supporters, and her opposition. But, I won't diminish anyone simply because it seems to be majority opinion. Like many others, I'm not a lemming. I'm sorry, but "heinous"? Seriously? LOL, that's fantastic! I guess maybe you overplay your emotions a little? But, to be honest, there's little difference between Hamlet picking his list and the few people who voted in your awards thingy deciding the winners in each category. And you may try to distance yourself from the word "winners" but, really, it's all semantics. Why people feel the need to put together these sorts of lists, these sorts of award ceremonies, these sort of meaningless polls of popularity, is beyond me. As for Anshe, I'm no lemming either. But direct contact between myself and Anshe on several topics has forced me to form the opinion that, like it or not, she's brought a lot of it on herself through her actions. Part of it is that she's a liability as soon as she opens her mouth. Part of it is being cut-throat in business. Part of it is just her not really giving a hoot until after the event. "Heinous." Hahaha. Gotta love dhrama. 
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stpaulsub Clio
Fear the Bubblegum Gurl!
Join date: 2 Sep 2004
Posts: 607
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04-19-2006 06:40
From: Siggy Romulus A feltching hat? sorry had the 'sucking up' part on the brain and misread that. eww eww eww eww eww eww eww eww eww
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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04-19-2006 06:53
From: Jake Reitveld Its just like the Philip worship we see-people boasting over once having had a 3 word exchange with him. Or even better, one resident telling another in the land an economy forum he is commiting hubris to think a C.E.O. would respond to him (in one of those generally aimed posts disagreeing with LL economics). That resident was me. Nothing to do with hero-worship, I'm Australian, we prefer to cut down our tall poppies  ...would you expect a CEO of a company that you purchased something from to personally discuss his plans with you, in IM no less? Especially when you ask rudely? Regarding the list, who is influential varies amongst the generations. New residents would probably have a completely different list.
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Jeanette Hailey
Diva Designs
Join date: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 185
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04-19-2006 07:15
I've been here for just over a year. I know thats much less than many of you and I know that most people in SL have done and contributed more than I could ever dream of. But I must say... I've never heard of most of these people. If I have it was in name only, and that equates to the RL statement of "Hey, you know who Donald Trump is right?" .... "Yup." Sure, these folks may have made a contribution to SL at some point but was it lasting? Jenna Fairplay - yep, heard the name. Heard of Edge, never been there myself, but I remember pissing them off once when Klub Kink got popular. Is Edge still around? Does she still own and run it in this "innovative" fashion? Prokofky Neva - Came to one of my Business in SL discussion groups once. I won't go on about what was said, but he managed to tick me off once or twice in IMs before I even knew who/what he was. Came as a surprise when I found out he was behind the whole *** thing. Francis Chung - I use her open source scripts now and then. Nice hug. There are better ones out there now. Aimee Weber - Bo keeps promising to introduce me, but the little **** never gets to it  *waves to Aimee* Cory Doctrow - Who? My point is here, that these people may have impacted SL, but in such a fast-paced society where things change day to day, minute by minute, and someone is always out to top whatever it is you are doing, what lasting effect does it have? I mean, really... some day after AC has retired some newbie will wander into the forums and say "Anshe? I know i've heard that name before..." Most of you don't know me, either and that's fine. You've probably been to one of my events, though, as I tend to stay behind the scenes for the most part, making sure things go smooth and on time and that all the bills get paid. Or you were probably a guest at my once-club... but we take that to the grave  Or you may have bought something I made. I'm too lazy to go sort through the posts for the quote or who said it, but someone pointed out that we all have an effect on SL in some form or another. Some of us are just more satisfied to see the results than get the recognition.
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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04-19-2006 07:16
From: Phaylen Fairchild An elite list is not empowering to the community, in fact, instead it's damaging to all involved. Hamelt, you've already been witness to various attacks by those angry they or someone they loved were not included, and these people you have spotlighted recieve community backlash, deemed self important "FIC" members with Linden Lab in their pockets. This in turn pits the community at large against a few people here who simply enjoy what they're doing and have found their niche- along with success. First, I don't think the SL community needs anyone else to "empower" them. I think that's an overly dramatic synonym for "not saying anything remotely unkind about anybody". In my experience, this bunch is independent-minded and thick-skinned enough to laugh it off if they're only #21 or #88 on someone else's silly list. Groups love these kinds of lists, because (a) it is fodder for discussion and controversy (which they also love); (b) it gives the group a chance to talk about itself, marvel at where it's been, hold the mirror up and say "we still have that pizazz". It's human nature to like to talk about ourselves, even as a group. From: someone I much more agree with involving the community in such a list should there be one, instead of trying to be the definitive. In doing this you are inviting a wider spectrum, if not altogether a more accurate assessment of WHO has impacted the community, not who has impacted you. That would be fun, but there are names on Hamlet's list that wouldn't even show up if you did a popularity contest like that. A few of them have lowered their profiles in SL in the last year or so. Others owe their fame to things they pioneered 2-3 years ago before the TSO invasion we're seeing today. Ask most TSO refugees TODAY (who make up a massive chunk of the 180,000 subscriptions Lindens are claiming) who the most influential would be and it might be their current favorite club owner, sex animation builder or skin designer. And most all of the current leader board in each of those categories stand on the shoulders of giants who came before them. New folks would have no idea. (Edit: Jeanette, we cross-posted. Excellent points, and I'm not accusing you of being a TSO refugee  ) So yes, it would be interesting to do a community poll. Maybe even fun. But it would be a different kind of animal than what Hamlet tried to do. They would not be the same at all. From: someone I support anything that invites community interaction and participation, allowing their voices to be heard regardless... Taking it upon yourself to exalt a localized crowd in your social circle above the rest of the community only promotes a combative, contentious atmosphere. But this forum already has a combative, contentious atmosphere (though not as much since Proky was banned). Why change now? 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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04-19-2006 08:00
From: Phaylen Fairchild An elite list is not empowering to the community, in fact, instead it's damaging to all involved. How is an elite list any different than the awards show you put on? It seems a bit contradictory. They both end up having the same net effect. No list (or set of awards) will ever satisfy everyone - there will always been hurt feelings, people feeling slighted, people resenting who is on the list or who won - this is human nature. We have all kinds of such things in RL too - endless lists and awards shows. Empowering? Nah, but certainly not all that damaging other than bruising a few egos.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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04-19-2006 08:01
From: Cindy Claveau So what about the Midnights anyway? Torrid, Chip and Cristiano may not be related but I think each of them has changed SL in huge ways but they only get special mention? Chip, especially, as I understand it created the first commercial skins, right? How huge is that? Stay tuned for my "Where Are They Now?" expose in which I reveal my mental breakdown, laxative abuse, and give a tour of my van down by the riverside. 
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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04-19-2006 08:05
From: Usagi Musashi  oh well.......... Chilly Charlton over at club extreme....... gesh......some people dont get out much do they..... Some people wouldn't be caught dead in a place with such a banal name.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-19-2006 08:15
From: Usagi Musashi jenna fairplay is joke on this list. maybe a year ago i say she could be on this list but now. she doent not even coming close. what about chilly over in club extreme. he should on this list. where is 1 to 5? I've never even heard of that felloow. He should definetly not be on the list.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
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04-19-2006 08:16
From: Cristiano Midnight How is an elite list any different than the awards show you put on? It seems a bit contradictory. Wow I really need to point this out - Again-? I think rather than doing so I'll leave you to do your due diligance and read the actual posts where the comparisons were made and discredited.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-19-2006 08:18
From: Phaylen Fairchild Wow I really need to point this out - Again-?
I think rather than doing so I'll leave you to do your due diligance and read the actual posts where the comparisons were made and discredited. Discredited is such a strong word.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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04-19-2006 08:20
From: Chip Midnight Stay tuned for my "Where Are They Now?" expose in which I reveal my mental breakdown, laxative abuse, and give a tour of my van down by the riverside.  LOL the four of us can have a combined "E! True Hollywood Story" that will show our meteoric rise in intertwined segments and how it all came crashing down around us at the hands of Aimee Weber, ever resentful of not being a true Midnight. It's all in there. Chip's abuse of Dulcalax and the shinyness filter in Photoshop, Torrid's fall from top clothing designer and podcast personality to social pariah after a bizarre incident at a fashion show where she suddenly attacked an audience member who was wearing bling hair, Mistress' untimely demise (A. Weber suspected) in a freak accident in Midnight City involving one of Francis Chung's cars that had the brakes tampered with, and of course, my ruthless control of important metaverse snapshot resources that led to someone shooting me after seeing one too many pictures of JellyBean Madison's new hair and blaming me. Trust me, you don't want to be on these lists.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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04-19-2006 08:22
From: Chip Midnight Stay tuned for my "Where Are They Now?" expose in which I reveal my mental breakdown, laxative abuse, and give a tour of my van down by the riverside.  "Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs." -Homer Simpson in "Behind the Laughter"
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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04-19-2006 08:25
From: Phaylen Fairchild Wow I really need to point this out - Again-?
I think rather than doing so I'll leave you to do your due diligance and read the actual posts where the comparisons were made and discredited. Wow, condescend much? There is no difference between award shows and best of lists. They have the same net effect, whether the community is involved or not in the voting - they come down to popularity contests. I am not saying either is ultimately a bad thing, it is just part of the process and human nature. Some people like them, some people hate them. There is nothing to discredit, Phaylen, so I don't need to research anything. I just found it odd for you to criticize Hamlet's list, given the fact that you just put on an awards show yourself.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
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04-19-2006 08:26
/headdesk.
*Edit*
You're so right Cris. This will delight you to hear. I went through and picked all the people who were the most high profile figures in SL on my very own, then decided to spend thousands of dollars throwing them a big self congratulatory party to worship them, exalt them like Buddah- There was really no one else involved. It was a conglomeration of me and my opinions. My own self devised "IT" list in which no one else had any input, simply because I am that self important.
I also danced around each one of the naked and chanted Benadictine tunes.
I hope you feel smug now... you caught me.
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
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04-19-2006 08:26
I was... not terribly impressed with The Edge the one time that I was there.
Anyway.
My "list" tends to focus more on people who made beautiful things - Dane Zander comes to mind immediately for Apollo. Damianos Thetan. Savi Sieyes for her work on the Open Air Art Gallery. Vlad Bjornsen. Starax for his sculpture.
It doesn't take a lot to build in SL. It /does/ take something to build something that has a sense of "placeness" to it, of weight. That matters more to me than clubs, than the majority of shops. If a place makes me want to go back with my friends to simply be there, they win, as far as I'm concerned.
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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04-19-2006 08:35
From: Phedre Aquitaine Savi Sieyes for her work on the Open Air Art Gallery. 
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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04-19-2006 08:35
From: Phaylen Fairchild /headdesk. You know, it might actually bear fruit if you engage in discussions rather than spout your mantra and expect everybody to follow. We all learn from discussions, I know I certainly have many times both here and elsewhere. Dismissing arguments flat-out as "discredited", comparisons as "heinous" and condescending those who are in the discourse would seem to be both immature and insular. You may believe that the distinction between your awards ceremony, with a tiny minority of the community taking part, and Hamlet's list as clear cut. I see little difference, as do others - neither are particularly valid. You certainly have discredited nothing and you've just come across as sitting in your ivory tower looking down on those who dare question you. Personally I find it as laughable as Hamlet's list.
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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
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04-19-2006 08:47
From: Moopf Murray You know, it might actually bear fruit if you engage in discussions rather than spout your mantra and expect everybody to follow. We all learn from discussions, I know I certainly have many times both here and elsewhere. Discussions? What discussion? You get immediately offended and combative when anyone uses bigger words than you. From: Moopf Murray Dismissing arguments flat-out as "discredited", comparisons as "heinous" and condescending those who are in the discourse would seem to be both immature and insular. I like to hear myself talk, too. From: Moopf Murray You may believe that the distinction between your awards ceremony, with a tiny minority of the community taking part, and Hamlet's list as clear cut. I see little difference, as do others - neither are particularly valid. You certainly have discredited nothing and you've just come across as sitting in your ivory tower looking down on those who dare question you. From: Moopf Murray Personally I find it as laughable as Hamlet's list. Does this mean we can't be friends 
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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04-19-2006 08:50
At least pretend to try and keep up. Whether you alone voted, or had 10 million voters, it's still a popularity contest. From: Phaylen Fairchild /headdesk. *Edit* You're so right Cris. This will delight you to hear. I went through and picked all the people who were the most high profile figures in SL on my very own, then decided to spend thousands of dollars throwing them a big self congratulatory party to worship them, exalt them like Buddah- There was really no one else involved. It was a conglomeration of me and my opinions. My own self devised "IT" list in which no one else had any input, simply because I am that self important. I also danced around each one of the naked and chanted Benadictine tunes. I hope you feel smug now... you caught me.
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Little Rebel Designs Gallinas
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