New Zindra Blog Post

This isn't quite just "word on the street" as there were at least two people turned down originally because their places weren't "commercial"

It was only after reopening and challenging this that LL flipped and allowed them the swap.

I know one of them, very close friend

So we can assume one of two things. Either the land teams dealing with the tickets were misinformed, or Jack and Blondin are. To me either case is as likely judging from past "answers"

Being insulting here isn't going to help you.

/me finds it hard to believe that you actually own a popular club that gets the kind of traffic you say it does and you really are just now hearing about this stuff.

I know somebody who owns a club that gets that kinds of traffic and she's been getting asked about this stuff nearly every day for months.

What can I say. Mizery is the vanguard of the NEXT phase of the Charlie Foxtrot.

PS: Miz, it's spelled "monastery".

Yeh it's been horrible, eh, I kinda think they are loosening up, opening new continents to give people reasonable swaps, I mean they could have pushed and made people cut up land and squished the lot onto the small Zindra that was first there.

It's almost over, just another week or 2. Chin up .

Hey, two quick notes.

First, this Zindra Alliance thing is fascinating. Does the group see itself as a sort local business association? A cartel intended to increase your bargaining position with LL? Or as something more fundamental? Perhaps a group concerned more generally with larger cultural and social issues (i.e., the presence of "adult content" in SL)?

In any case, I hope someone is paying attention to maintaining at least a rudimentary archive of your history; I think it will make for an interesting and possibly important case study. And yes, I am serious.

Second point: I note in slapt.me that the SLLU Feminist Network is listed as being "in support" of the move to Zindra and the new AO classification (in fact, the only group listed as being so). In the interests of accuracy, let me say (as a very active member of the group) that this is not so: the SLLUFN has in fact NO "official" response to AO itself, and has SERIOUS reservations about its design and implementation. Which is why we were showing up at office hours in the first place.

What IS true, and is, I suspect, where we part company with most in this thread, is that we support in principle the creation of (for want of a better word) "safe" areas in SL, where women (or anyone for that matter) can be sure that they will not run across images of sexual violence. (NOT sexual images, per se: we are in no sense "anti-sex".

Anyway, just for the record . . .

People are talking about age verification and the adult continent. People are not asking me about free land swaps. Why would they?
If it is OK for you to imply I am being dishonest about something then certainly there is no issue with me claiming you are an uptight prude and perhaps this is not the thread for you, being about "grown up stuff" and all.

I think we are headed for a SL in which 'excessive consumption of sim resources' will get more attention from LL than is has in the past.
The question has been mentioned if Office Hours going back a few months.
It seems likely that packing venues into Zindra sims might focus a lot more attention on this.

And all that talk of age verification and the adult continent didn't make you curious enough to do any research at all?

/me shrugs.

Feel free to ignore this whole thing. Best of luck ignoring the rules.

I know the population density issue came up very, very soon after LL did the initial forums posts here. Back when they had 5 threads going and more than 1/2 a Linden looking through them. I know because I brought it up, right at the start.

The only response LL would give was that all the zindra regions would be on class 5 sim hosts.

Yep, people don't read usually read blogs andI only ever saw it advertised on the log in screen for one day.


So long as LL are on the hop and keep opening land, we should push for *all mature* to be offered a swap, or the akin in rights on their mainland in their mature ratings they bought, like protected from adult activity ARs, outdoor sex etc.

Not gonna happen. Most of the mainland is mature. They might offer a break to those people and charge for a swap but they're never going to just leave it totally open for anybody to get a free swap.

You have a bone to pick with me?
YES i heard of Ursula, forced moves, age verification, etc. I was one of the first to announce the entire fiasco to the masses in world.
But this land swap seems to have been kept under the radar. Like I have already said- I do not spend time in the forums keeping up on the latest gossip nor do I read through the PR blogs often.

Ignoring the rules.... When i bought my land the CS stated that "broadly offensive content" was to be contianed to Mature land. So i spent good money on Mature land, watched the price drop to near nothing, and now that the goalposts have moved I am supposed to JUMP? I should sell at a 90% loss pull out the credit card and pay some speculator big $ a la Bay City? I am supposed to spend my days teleporting around Zindra time and time again updating tickets daily? Hope i dont land on a sim with a popular freebie reseller that cripples my club members? No way.

Of course it won't happen, but that doesn't change the fact that it should.

Or they should just let people on the mainland upgrade their existing land to adult.

Yeh, maybe... but it's what they should've done, moved the smaller PG crowd.

Anyway at the very least, AR's are a danger and ratings are paid for, this has to be pushed with them.

And that isnt quite accurate, these last months have been stuck in a nightmarish Limbo-land, given misleading, false, incomplete information when we get it at all. Waiting for the Plan to even start.

When I finally DO get my land, if it's suitable in type and conditions, then the fun REALLY begins!

Hours of work to reshuffle, redesign, coordinate 30-40 people. losing large masses of the build because people are no longer available. When they were made for me, I had the luxory, now gone, of being able to pay people to build. Now it's all on MY shoulders, and I hate building (rare moods when I do seem to enjoy it)

I get to move 12,000 prims, oversee it's shuffling, terraform (If I'm lucky enough to get the type of land I paid for!) and on and on and on!

Yes, it will soon be over, and I will be insane

actually, you're not parting company with most of us- most of us think that there ought to be "safe areas"- we just don't think the way to do it is by putting the Adult content worms back in the can- some of us think that the only way to do that is to create new areas that are *kept* safe PG areas.

So, like you, we object to LL's methods rather than their goal. Not that LL blushes when they blur that distinction in their pro-zindra blog entries.

^V^

That was also brought up right at the very start of this - that LL should do up an adult continent and a PG-only continent and let the market drive migration-to/expansion-of those areas. It seemed like such a simple and obvious solution to the goals Cyn stated but the only response we ever got on that was that it "is not part of the project."

when script limits per parcel are introduced it will impact on a lot of the merchants in Zindra. It's one of the reasons I have so much land, with the amount of MLP toys I offer and the curent LL thinking on limitations I need at least 2-3 times my current shop footprint just to be able to keep the shop itself running - let alone my workshops etc etc.

When they implement that it will be a biggie - avatars, shops and homes will be affected. For the moment I can add around 50% to my product range with the current mlp scripts without being crippled if LL do implement in the current form.

So whether it be laggy sims now or broken toys later it's going to be an interesting ride.

/me hits this word with WhiteOut and writes in "broken".

Sadly that is exactly what Linden Lab expects you to do, and has expected you to do for months. Unfortunately they've placed the burden on your shoulders to properly educate yourself about what is coming down the pike and what you need to do about it, and if they should decide that your venue is Adult in nature, after your opportunity for the swap has come and gone, you're going to have four choices: Buy land on Zindra; move to somebody's private island estate; buy a private island estate of your own; or shut down all adult activity on your land. So right now you have to decide which you'd prefer, taking the time to get your swap requests submitted and get in line, or gamble on being allowed to keep your operations open where they are.

And by the way, that whole thing about if Linden Lab wants you to move they can move you themselves, I agree with that sentiment. However as many other people have already found out who felt the same way, it will never happen. If they decide you need to move it's up to you to take care of your builds on your own. They're really showing their customers how much they appreciate our business here.

Even a worldwide well known developement called "logistic" and "adequate amount of well briefed staff" and "effective announcement" and "fair customer service" was not meeting the criterias of their dead born plan...

Yes, I've heard that view expressed here before. Personally, I think I'd be ok with this approach.

To be more precise, then, I think that where we might part ways would be with the "throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater" definition of "adult." A "safe" area needn't be sex-free; there is no one that I've met in the SLLUFN who is very interested in "PG" as it is currently defined. Rather, a "safe" area should allow one to pursue whatever pursuits one wishes, including sex, while not having to be exposed to images of VIOLENT sexuality. As it stands now, someone who wants to express her sexuality, but wishes (for whatever reason) to avoid depictions of violent sexuality, is out of luck. Simulations of both consensual and nonconsensual sex have simply been lumped in together.

It's a ham-fisted approach to defining human sexuality that serves no one, I suspect. From this perspective anyway (and I do have OTHER objections to LL's approach as well), things would have been much better had LL allowed depictions of consensual sex to remain in "Mature."

(Part of this divide derives from the fact that feminism tends not to think of sexual violence as "sex" at all, but rather as a form of violence intended, amongst other things, to force submission and repression.)

The entry was made in the early days when it was clear from forum posts that this seemed to be the case, but things are clearer now and people are starting to work together slowly. The great thing is with the wiki is that it is for everyone in SL and anyone can edit it However based on what you have now said I have removed the entry from that section as I take it that you do speak for your group

I would like to think that the Zindra Alliance will avail itself with the slapt.me wiki for archiving and historical recording of matters and we will create a section for them if they wish on our forums as the wiki and slapt.me is becoming synonymous with these changes and we hope over time it will develop and welcome others from SL to it as it has started to become a good archive and is truly owned by the community and will remain so.

Well..., the very first idea I have seen in March, was that LL told us to move only the ultra-extreme-monster-brutal-uberbizarre-killersadistic-superphotorealistic-expressions. Plus other sorts of violence.

This ended now in: sensitivest and smoothest petting have to move (we still talk about just avatars...hehehe...) and the fans of a blue steel 44 and M16 guns can still have a fine blood bath on mature land.

One Linden comment was: "ha, no problem, guns and tanks are fun and legal"...and the theme "violence" was from the table forever.

And on Zindra it can happen, that you take a sunbath at a beach, while your neighbor starts to toast a women on a Dolcett barbecue grill (while that is in most cases consensual too, because the virtual menu has to click active on a ball first)

...

Since new, one of my homes is looking in direction of a totaly empty neighbor sim (people moved to Zindra). I wonder, if and when an army is moving in there...I think, I start to build a bunker in advance...we never know how low the bullets are flying...

It's early to panic about the effects of script memory limits. They're still unable to give even general guidelines about what those limits might be, and they plan to give us a long stretch where we'll be able to monitor script memory usage before they start enforcing anything. During that time, a lot of scripts will be rewritten; for example, I'd be very surprised if a version of MLP doesn't emerge at that time that saves a lot of memory specifically for situations where there are a lot of MLP-equipped devices on the same parcel.

(Note to scripters: although Mono scripts can share program segments, thereby cutting memory use when multiple instances are in the same sim, per Babbage this will not be reflected in the limits: each script will count that full shared segment as if it were alone in the sim. This is actually sensible, for slightly arcane reasons. Of course there is also a lot of data segment savings possible in a sim full of MLPs, so it's just a different, more programming-intensive problem.)