GOR as visitor

Most ironic of all is most of the control you see in Gorean sims is exerted by the Slave Girls on their "Masters"

It tends to follow one. Teleporting to places that turn out to be in markets full of women in chains, shopping alongside slaves, recently of all things trying to find a boat shop. The other Rps just don't offend me on a gut-level. (I assume there are some that'd offend me more, but I don't happen upon them as much.)




It was a political attack.




Disagreement, satire, parody, argument, etc are not trolling. Dissent is not intrinsically a bad thing. At least, not in cultures that don't place massive emphasis on controlling other human beings.




Especially since all the philosophy goes on about the manly modality of keeping a slave through control. Funny how things work out, innit?

I cannot believe this thread has generated so much response. I am going to reply honestly to individual posts.

Chevonne is right. Roleplaying as a slave can be an extremely involving and profound experience.

However, to a large extent, the people "who need to do some reading" are often people who own alot of slaves who do very little and are largely ignored.

Chevonne's experience is undoubtedly that of a valuable slave, and not at all indicative of what a newbie can expect from a Gorean collar.

We went through all this babble in the other slave thread. Bottom line, Role Playing is just that. It isn't real. If you don't like it fine. lighten up, for Chrissakes!

Re getting the books:

http://www.pantheus.com/books/books.htm

You cannot generalize this broadly about so many different Goreans. There are more flavors of Goreans, Gorean roleplay, Gorean sims, and Gorean homes than there are flavors of ice cream.

Goreans are certainly demonized in many circles, particularly among BDSM types. Yet it has persisted in every stage of the development of the social internet, from bulletin boards, through IRC, Hypertext, HTML chat....

Gor is essentially contradictory to BDSM. In it's purest form, there is NO power share. It is a complete submission to the owner. Some people take this only in roleplay, and others want to tell you what underwear to wear to work.

People leave their RT friends and families for alot of reasons, and in alot of ways. It can certainly happen amongst Goreans, although it's not necessarily a bad thing. Online indoctrination and behavioral modification are not bad things either, necessarily. Isn't that what happens when you go to college, or start a new job, or give up drinking?

Yes, I could. Having been involved in Gor forever, I know lots of people who have started new lives with people they have become involved with on Gor. And just like match.com, sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.

More common is people meeting for a weekend rendezvous to cheat on their spouses and roleplay Gor in a hotel room for a night. Way more common.

Thing is, Gor isn't "just" RP. It is a philosophy to many, and a very idiotic and crazy one. Of course it is misogynistic, to the point that it makes extreme Islam look liberal; in the world of Gor, women are completely powerless and reduced to literal slaves, and men are He-Man rulers. There's an entire system of "rules" and "ought to bes" outlined in a series of 25 poorly written books.

Did I mention that it is also a religion to some, who consider the contents of the Gor books historical fact? People actually believe that the alien overlords of the planet Gor transplanted humans from Earth to live in a misogynistic paradise. Sounds sort of like Scientology, but with swords and Gorean Silks.




It is bad because it is the basis for an abusive relationship. A big part of controlling the victim is isolating them, breaking down the social network which is vital for every human. Then, a new social network is erected with the abuser as the main focal point, and people who won't speak out against the abuse.

As for the behavioral modification, it is harmful because the abuser uses it to gain power over the victim. Learning new skills, or giving up drinking are constructive uses of behavioral modification; systematically breaking down one's self-esteem and self-worth to the point that they will give up their RL freedom are not. Is this that hard for you to realize?

I'd wager that more money is spent by women.

The original post that I quoted said:



I still fail to see proof of "intensive online indoctrination and behavioral modification", you just pointed out examples of people getting involved in an online relationship. Nothing exclusively Gorean there, it happend with IM, chats, IRC, WoW, etc.

I understand that new relationships can be formed from RPing anything, and that those relationships may be successful or not. But that was not the original intent of the quoted post. I am just trying to understand if people really believe that being involved in a Gor RP will "destroy" families.

Markets are generally non-roleplay areas. Considered OOC. Like the market in Lydius is not even connected to the roleplay areas. It's a good place to hang out, in any clothing or avi, and meet other people interested in Gor, or actual Goreans.

Also, I am a manager in Purgatory, and we have several Gorean roleplayers who "work" at Purgatory, to earn income. I personally do some Gorean roleplaying, off-Gor, as an escort, as do some other Purgatory staff. I am planning some Gorean-theme events at Purgatory, after we move to a faster sim.

I have introduced several new people to Gor, and helped people get established in roleplay. I take people on guided tours of Gor, for escort rates (800L/.5hour), which is probably more time effective than random searching. I also have a Group, called The Storyteller's Guild, that provides a roleplay premise to help people try roleplay in a safer fashion, than just jumping in.

Read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4996410.stm

Just to avoid repetition ad nauseam, check this thread: /327/a5/192120/1.html

I will accept your point of view as to whether you thing Gor is bad, evil or whatever. Just don't try to push it into somebody else.

The concepts behind power exchange relationships, D/s, M/s and other varieties has been discussed at length in that thread. Enjoy it.

You know, there are nut cases in all walks of life and all philosophies, etc. Bet Gene Roddenberry didn't expect there to be an online university teaching Klingon!

I will preface this by saying I know absolutely nothing about RP Goreans - I can only speak of Lifestyle Goreans. These would be regular peeps, holding regular jobs, living regular lives - they may be your next door neighbor and you will never know -

Not all Gorean females are slaves - in fact, females can be just as arrogant as men - takes a special mind-set to really be kajirae, not something I can see personally choosing for myself. Because ultimately, it all comes down to choice - who you are and what you do.

And most people with some sort of grip on reality rather discount having arrived here on spaceships, you know - although even that is on par with the countles ludicrous explanations people have come up with throughout history to explain how we got here in the first place. And no, I don't personally believe in the Priest-Kings

Amaranthim

No, this is not true. I would estimate that:
90% Goreans have not read the latest Gor book
80% of Goreans have never read an entire Gor book
70% of Goreans lie about their knowledge of the books
60% of Goreans think the books are poorly written
50% of Goreans have never read any part of a Gor book
40% of Goreans claim that the books are not even relevent to online Gor
30% of Goreans are sexual predators that don't give a monkeyfuck about Gor, but only care that Gor is a good hunting ground for their particular interests.
20% of Goreans knowingly reject fundamental elements of Gor that don't fit their philosophy.
10% of Goreans are obsessed with Gor to the point of being dangerous
5% of Goreans are complete frauds
4% of Goreans are experts on the books, and the author's philosophy

From the article:

"But a spokesman said the Canadian was a willing participant and the other people involved were consenting adults.

"She later contacted a friend in United States, who then contacted the police, saying she wanted to leave but couldn't as she had burnt her passport and return ticket.

But a police spokesman said upon arriving at the premises they did not find any evidence of "criminal offences"."

"Police also investigated claims by a father in Essex his 18-year-old son had joined the sect. However police also found the teenager was at the property voluntarily and they had no grounds to get involved."

Are you missing something in that article? No criminal activity, everyone was there because they wanted to. Yo may or may not like the books, the philosophy, the customs, whatever; you are the one who will choose whether to participate in any Gor-based activity or not.


I am not into Gor, I did visit a Gor sim and I am still undecided whether I would like to try RPing there or not. At the end, it will be MY choice.

Not so much. The books are confusing. If you skim them, it's likely you will misunderstand them. The author tries to be Shakespearean in the way that characters are foils for each other, stand for philosophies, are often set up as straw men, learn that what they originally thought was wrong, etc. There are better webpages to learn from than taking on the raw books. And many of the books are bad.

I offer people the two early books that I think are the best (Assassin and Captive), but there are alot of good Goreans who think the books are unreadable, and have learned extensively from webpages, observation, and in-game or OOC training.

And that is the essence, further distilled - your choice - your responsibilty. In all things.

This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE about SOME Goreans.

For them, it is more about power than roleplay.

It is also true that many Goreans want to roleplay "being somebody important", because in RT they are not.

It is also true that many Goreans are misogynists, who go to Gor to "get even" with women in general for specific women in RT that they are forced to pretend to respect, such as their bosses or wives.

The entire concept of RP is to be something you aren't. As to your last statement, what do you base that on. Statistics?

This is also very true. There is alot of topping from the bottom, and bottoming from the top going on. Many bad slaves own their Masters in other venues, and use the Master to shield their bad behaviour.

And there are people that are genuine. Generally, birds of a feather flock together, and you will find sims full of it, and sims that don't tolerate it. Whatever "it" is that you are looking at.

But, in general, the quickest way to get in trouble on Gor is to treat somebody else's slave, as if they were a slave. Or to treat somebody else's slave the way slaves are treated in the books.

This a good summary of the worst end of the Gor spectrum. On the other hand, one could say that Gor is representative of what might happen in a world in which men treasured women so deeply, that they felt compelled to own them, and in which, women find happiness DESPITE difficult circumstances.

What seems hard for many to realize is that by giving up one type of freedom, a slave often finds a different type of freedom. The freedom to be fully female, the freedom to lose one's self in a fantasy, the freedom from decision-making.... to name a few. This can be especially liberating if it is TEMPORARY.

I fail to see how anybody could actually PROVE this. I have seen it. I know people who actively participate as indoctrinators and indoctranees. I've had people try it on me. It happens. If that is not proof enough, nothing would be.

Which seems wrong somehow doesnt it?

Its totally counter to the ideas expressed in the books, after all.

Personal experience.