Land Sale Mistake !!!!!
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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05-22-2005 06:24
From: Ellie Edo Yes Lynn, your quote nicely expresses my growing sense of exasperation at the simpleminded, kindergarten style approach to morality which is in evidence here. The childish inability to recognise, let alone respond to, or address, the subtleties of genuine adult human interactions.
Why do you, like so many others, decline to post on topic, but just keep posting about other peoples posts?
Is the buyer fairly proven guilty ? Are there no extenuating factors ? Do you find the witnesses calm and reliable? How much provocation was there ? What might be said in the other direction ? Did the complainant act with reasonable politeness and courtesy? why did the Lindens decide against her ? Was she fair to reject the US$125 cost of rectifying her mistake?
An SL resident has been absolutely castigated here. En masse almost. On the word of someone who confesses to having been hysterical, and who posts so aggressively we can glimpse the likely nature of the interchange. One poster has banned the accused from all their land. A huge riot of self-righteousness. The persons name has been been made easily accessible, in violation of forum rules.
Yet you find your last contribution to be suitable and appropriate ? To address the issues ?
Unbelievable! Another poster floating free in the airy-fairy land of kindergarten simplicity. Unperturbed by any of those nasty old facts, or issues, or complexities, or personalities.
Black/white cardboard cutout universe of bad guys and good guys and nothing in between.
You didn't address, or even recognise the existence of, even one point relevant to this persons alleged crime, Lynn.
You wonder I get exasperated, and finally start talking about "you people". I mean it. This simpleminded witch hunting worries me. I would strongly suggest that you re-read all of your initial posts in this thread before I call the kettle black. As I've stated before -- have compassion for the person who initially purchased all the property to make it a contiguous plot -- putting in some heavy USD prior to your friend seeing a deal and scooping it up. Please stop your condenscending attitudes towards ANYONE who has a problem with the interface. Your belittlement of those individuals by saying "there is no accept button" only shows your lack of complete integrity when supporting a cause you feel is correct. ANYONE who immediately purchases a large chunk of land at an extraordinary LOW price, who immediately receives a tel from the original owner KNOWS what they did. They are taking advantage of a situation for the all-mighty dollar -- and you can't tell me otherwise. But I have to wonder WHY you would stick up for a person who would snatch up a large chunk of land at such a low price -- WHY are you not asking this individual why he/she didn't contact the seller -- or why they bought the land in the first place, expecially since it was done immediately after it was set for sale and ESPECIALLY after receiving tel's from the landowner that it was a mistake. Take a good, hard look at yourself in the mirror and tell me that if you lost $125 in land how you would feel, especially if your own words were thrown in your face. There is no need for your exasperation on this topic. Like I said, one day, you too shall do a stupid mistake and someone will profit from it. You will eat your words 1,000 times, and I hope to hell at this point that it DOES occur and that you know the feeling of losing something that you've worked hard to obtain. You have no compassion for others, you are definitely trying to sway the right and wrong of what was done. ANYONE who is here to build a community within SL would have done the RIGHT thing, and either a) asked the seller if that was the correct price and/or b) after purchasing the land and receiving the tel from the owner, returned it with their money refunded. While you try to tell me that "this forum has convicted the person who purchased this land as guilty" -- you, yourself have shown NOTHING but contempt for the original land owner, even calling into question those who might mistakenly configure a window improperly. Sorry, but you're about as see-through as plastic wrap with your so-called "cause" of supporting the person who purchased the property. People make mistakes, and you've made a HUGE one in your support of the land purchaser. Enjoy your second life, and I hope to hell you don't live your first one as you have shown your true self in this thread. You have shown not one iota of compassion for the person making a mistake -- you have supported the person who scooped up the land, and you have even insulted the intelligence of anyone who has ever owned land and found the property controls / land sale window confusing. Insults will get you no where in life, and they won't get you anywhere in SL either. School's out. You didn't get a passing grade in the things you should have learned in kindergarten, so how the hell do you think you would ever function as an attorney?
_____________________
They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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LilMissy Fox
The Perfect BRAT!
Join date: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 42
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Woo Hoooo
05-22-2005 07:15
Lynn.......... GOSH DAMMIT I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER IF MY GRANNY PANTIES WHERE PULLED UP OVER MY HEAD FROM MY ASS!!!!!
ABSOLUTELY BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(edited)
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Roberta Dalek
Probably trouble
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,174
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05-22-2005 07:56
I wonder what % of the people posting in this thread are personal friends of the thread starter? 50%?
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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05-22-2005 08:08
From: Roberta Dalek I wonder what % of the people posting in this thread are personal friends of the thread starter? 50%? I dont fancy going through the 15 pages and working it out but its way less than 50% but your probably right there are a few, as there are also a few who have ganged up against, as well as the majority who just think its plain wrong whats been going on. But as far as friends posting goes im sure your friends would support you in such a case, and i dont see how that lessens the case such that it is.
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-22-2005 09:08
From: Dennie Bliss Ellie, You make some very valid points. The same thing happen to me. I was looking at the land sale, trying to decide where to buy some land, when I saw a big piece come up at a very nice price. I thougth this is awfully cheap. But maybe it's someone who has to tier down like right now. Regardless I wanted to get it before someone else did. It was a tough decision to make because it would have bumped me up to $75 and my payment date wasn't that far away.
So I bought it and was sitting on the land when the seller came up and I asked her if she could leave her waterfall. She still hadn't understood her mistake. When she did, she asked for it right back. As bad as I felt for her, I knew if I gave it right back, I would be stuck with a $75 tier payment. At this point she offered to pay me $75, which would have been okay. I was a little disappointed. We called Lindens, told our story. The Linden told me to write to Billing and see if they would reverse the tier payment. When they did I sold it back to her and I think she gave me $1k which was nice.
I did waste a lot of time and thought about keeping the land but I would have felt too guilty in the long run.
But maybe because this situation erupted and the buyer didn't want to get stuck with a $125 tier fee, they reacted differently. Strange how no-one noticed this posting. Highly relevant. Describing a very similar event from the other angle. Note how much better the seller (who made the mistake) behaved: "As bad as I felt for her, I knew if I gave it right back, I would be stuck with a $75 tier payment. At this point she offered to pay me $75," and how different the outcome was. Not one poster here even acknowledged the existence of this highly relevant contribution. Not even to take issue with it. I wonder why not ? Failed to fit in with the lynch mob's prejudices ?
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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05-22-2005 09:32
Ok for some reason the forum has emailed me a copy what you wrote ellie i apologise for not being able to quote but i still have you on ignore, but i want to reply as you have some valid points.
I totally applaud this kind of action, when sasi tried to negotiate for the land back they laughed in her face at how such a great deal they had got and how it was fair.
All in all this kind of thing looks like a money making thing for lindens they get payed tier twice for transfers such as this, sasi has payed her 195$ and they have payed 125$ for the same piece of land, lindens have known about how this has effected people for years yet have seem to do so little, that also includes the release button.
Surely you can understand why someone wouldnt offer to pay the tier when doing so its effectively like linden labs double charging them through a piece of software thats confusing and needs fixed. (in their own words)
Im extremely happy to hear from all the nice people who have given land back who have found out it was sold by mistake, or even just informing people it was on sale in the firstplace at the wrong price etc.
Sorry you accuse us of having lynch mob prejudices, and to be quite honest it doesnt deserve a reply.
Just thanks to the nice people out there, who do the right thing.
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Jesse Brearly
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 234
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05-22-2005 09:37
From: Roberta Dalek I wonder what % of the people posting in this thread are personal friends of the thread starter? 50%? Have no idea who the original poster is, you do not need to know someone to tell the have been wronged.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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05-22-2005 09:48
From: Roberta Dalek I wonder what % of the people posting in this thread are personal friends of the thread starter? 50%? I'm not a personal friend. I just met the poster, but right is right and wrong is wrong. As more people come into SL and more people spend large sums of RL $$$ for SL land, they are going to expect some guarantees. We see there are none. So, buying/selling/trading land is unsafe, and you can get screwed. Everyone be warned.
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-22-2005 09:49
From: Nathan Stewart Surely you can understand why someone wouldnt offer to pay the tier when doing so its effectively like linden labs double charging them through a piece of software thats confusing and needs fixed. (in their own words)
Surely thats no justification. Like refusing to pay a shopkeeper the sales tax because you have a dispute with the government. If you make a mistake, someone acts on it and suffers loss, you should at least offer to return them to the situation they were in before it all happened. If you refuse to do this you are as bad as they are. Hardly surprising if things deteriorate from that point on. But thank you for addressing the point. Because of which I withdraw my "lynch mob" allegation. 
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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05-22-2005 10:01
From: Nathan Stewart Ok for some reason the forum has emailed me a copy what you wrote ellie i apologise for not being able to quote but i still have you on ignore, but i want to reply as you have some valid points.
I totally applaud this kind of action, when sasi tried to negotiate for the land back they laughed in her face at how such a great deal they had got and how it was fair.
All in all this kind of thing looks like a money making thing for lindens they get payed tier twice for transfers such as this, sasi has payed her 195$ and they have payed 125$ for the same piece of land, lindens have known about how this has effected people for years yet have seem to do so little, that also includes the release button.
Surely you can understand why someone wouldnt offer to pay the tier when doing so its effectively like linden labs double charging them through a piece of software thats confusing and needs fixed. (in their own words)
Im extremely happy to hear from all the nice people who have given land back who have found out it was sold by mistake, or even just informing people it was on sale in the firstplace at the wrong price etc.
Sorry you accuse us of having lynch mob prejudices, and to be quite honest it doesnt deserve a reply.
Just thanks to the nice people out there, who do the right thing. Nathan, it's always a shame when these things happen, and I hate seeing people lose out, even if it is a mistake of their own doing. Only the people there, and LL with their chat logs know exactly what happened, for the rest of us, it is pure speculation. If I had have seen the land that cheap, I would have picked it up (if I hadn't, someone else would have) and then contacted the buyer if it was at a crazy price by mistake. If I hadn't tiered up, I would have simply set it back to sell at the same price I paid for it. But if I had tiered up, the following attitude is not really going to get far with anyone. "As far as her landtier is concerned.... in my opionion TUFF!!! If you are going to steal land from people like this using alts or scanners then you should pay the price" I don't know Sasi at all. But I think this attitude is what has got people raising questions about the whole incident. Can you not see it?
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-22-2005 10:02
Deleted. Hiro says it better.
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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05-22-2005 11:48
From: Hiro Queso Nathan, it's always a shame when these things happen, and I hate seeing people lose out, even if it is a mistake of their own doing. Only the people there, and LL with their chat logs know exactly what happened, for the rest of us, it is pure speculation.
If I had have seen the land that cheap, I would have picked it up (if I hadn't, someone else would have) and then contacted the buyer if it was at a crazy price by mistake. If I hadn't tiered up, I would have simply set it back to sell at the same price I paid for it. But if I had tiered up, the following attitude is not really going to get far with anyone.
"As far as her landtier is concerned.... in my opionion TUFF!!! If you are going to steal land from people like this using alts or scanners then you should pay the price"
I don't know Sasi at all. But I think this attitude is what has got people raising questions about the whole incident. Can you not see it? Im quite sure that she only meant that regarding this case, She tried to negotiate, and yes its all in the chatlogs which the lindens have because she was advised to abuse report them. Its good to hear from another good person that helps, and i totally applaud you too. and if you had tiered up to save some of my land i would have paid it and im sure sasi would too, but its not as if you were rubbing that aquisition in our face and laughing, not even thinking about giving it back but just looking at what such good deal you had got.
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-22-2005 12:12
Please note that, like the defence attorney, I haven't entirely dismissed from my mind the possibility that you are absolutely right, and that this buyer was a malignant swine, who gloated over your friends misfortune.
I just don't think anything here is adequate to convince me, the impartial justice-obsessed bystander, that such is the case beyond reasonable doubt.
I see some evidence trending slightly but definitely in the opposite direction. It seems Hiro does too.
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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05-22-2005 12:32
Ack email copy again sorry cant quote.
I admire you for wanting to try and mount a defense, unfortuently its quite flawed when anybody involved in the situation cant post copies or quotes of what people said, things have to be said vagely as i've learned to my cost in this thread, for me posting 2 lines of conversation with a linden i have already recieved an informal warning, they seem much quicker to censor things out like that than deal with this situation.
Im sorry i cant provide more but i try to follow the rules, I thought by not naming them that was ok and i guess it wasnt, ingame i've only been neg rated by 1 person and that was a griefer in a club, negging everybody.
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Jeska Linden
Administrator
Join date: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 2,388
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05-22-2005 13:59
This thread has devolved into a personal discussion full of attacks against one another and as such is being closed. Please refrain from posting personal discussions which would be better suited for private messages or in-world chat.
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