Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

I would, but, since I dont have any respect for the brand, I'm not sure if I could use it or not. Let me check with a friend who works for a different brand, maybe they can give me permission to use it.


- Newfie

Why don't you check with this guy?

loll fun haha

Hmmm. There's that r-e-s-p-e-c-t word. C'mon. We don't need respect. We don't need no stinking badges! And he did give his permission. Gotta respect that!

Hey Panda, I'm gonna need male models for my Musashi-Doh! clothing line. You available?

And anyone else out there who would like to participate, feel free. All levels of ability are welcome - it'll all fall under the same brand. All thanks to Shiryu (what a great guy).

wow...i haven't seen behaviour like this since grade school! wooot...thanks for the trip down memory lane!

Someone should clue the Lindens in then remove all the advertizing on mmorpg.com LOL.

Seems pretty silly to me. Creator or gamer? doesn't realy matter does it? Different strokes for different folks.

I personaly would say let the games play after all most of them are buying content from those that view sl as a business arn't they?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you?

just my 2 cents.

Cat

Interesting. And I saw this behavior in the very post of this thread up to and including this little foot-stomping gem:



Now there's an adult comment.

I have never had an issue with anyone using SL in *their* way. I only take issue when someone tries to claim that SL is something that it is not, nor was intended to be. While some may come here to play a "game", they have to realize that since SL is *not* a "game", the rules they have become accustomed to in "other games" will not always apply here. The payoff for that is that they can come to learn just how much more SL has to offer since it is *not* a game.

I don't despise people who use RL trademarks in SL. I think for the most part people do not even have a clue that they are doing anything wrong. And while I think it will be a while before it is a *major* issue, the issue of copyrights and trademarks *will* be major one day down the road.

I don't want to see people I like getting hurt when that day comes. If people move to original creations now though, they will have a chance to build that product and reputation and not suddenly find themselves out of work (or worse) when the *original* creator of their product comes into the world.

Well said.SL is, really, neither a game nor a business... it's a hybrid of a tool and a toy not unlike the rest of the internet's many offerings. And like the rest, it offers plenty of room for both the SuperSerious User and the Not In The Least Serious Playtimer and everyone in between.

The only problem with calling SL a game is when one uses that to try and sheild one's self from one's responsibilities. Otherwise, play on!

I rest my case lol *he started it mommmmmy!!* geesh....go do something productive!

This is a common level of hypocrasy that I see. IE someone's work gets copied and they get mad... about work they did on pirated software. It's all me me me me me.

It doesn't matter if a company finds the misuse of their trademark as "free advertising", if they don't aggressively pursue all violators of their trademark, it becomes "diluted", and hence they can lose the trademark.

Ergo, it doesn't matter if they love you for it, they'll still send you a C&D letter, at best. At worst, they'll be sending their lawyers.

I never understood why people spend so much time recreating others' designs. Why not make your own? It's much more satisfying.

LF

And may I suggest you engage in the issues. In my case, a discourse on IP is extremely productive for what should be obvious reasons.

For those people who are honestly interested in issues regarding patents, trademarks, public commons and fair use I highly recommend http://www.lessig.org/

Important legal decisions about these topics are being made all the time. If you really care, let your congressmen know.

Shiryu: This argument is not on your side. I can see in your posts that your motivation in creating these items is out of respect and not trying to be a theif. But, the Lindens have to draw the line somewhere to protect themselves from future litigation.

It is frustrating but neccesary for you to be affected by this just like everyone else. As much as it hurts, the best thing to do is quietly abide by the Lindens ruling, and be thankful you were able to tribute the works you appreciate for as long as you did.


Csven: While ordinarily you provide intelligent and mature discourse, this time you are crossing the line and being a jerk about this. Consider the emotional investment that Shiryu has in his efforts. If you do so, his passionate defense (while incorrect) is understandable. Your point would be made much stronger if you showed a little empathy here.

I'm not suggesting that you should accept what Shiryu has been doing as OK. But playing a game of tit-for-tat to prove a point is something I would expect from my 6 year old. I am making the assumption that you are at least 18. If I am incorrect, I withdraw my comments.

Not to take a side one way or the other I just want to say to Shiryu, your cars are amazing. They would not be any less so for not having a real world brand name on them.

I just want to add that car companies are very particular about how their licensed vehicles get used in video games. That is why grand turismo did not have any crash damage, the car makers did not wnat their vehicles show damaged.

The best bet is to get a lawyer to write a letter for you.
Or write a letter and make phone calls to the legal department.

Sometimes the only way to respond is to respond in kind, especially after a number of people clearly and maturely pointed out an error in this person's judgement which he plainly ignored. I'd further point out that I too - as a RL designer - would ask for a little empathy. Do I not deserve at least as much consideration for my RL vocation as the consideration people are willing to give to someone admittingly only having "fun"? Did I not point this out? Why do I and other designers apparently deserve less empathy? less respect?

Note also that Shiryu made a rather backdoor exit from this thread after I played tit-for-tat games using his own SL brand. No one likes it when it happens to them and given the late edit to his post that marks his departure, I suspect that might have gotten his attention. That was the point I was making for those unaware, and which imo unfortunately needed to be made. Had Shiryu merely given some real thought and consideration to all the ramifications - including the airing of his previously private issue in public - most of us would be none the wiser.

Lastly, I'd also note the absence of many who quite likely have a stake in this issue. I have no doubt that there are those in SL who at least dream of a day when they can take their virtual creations and make real products. For them this is no game. Yet for what I expect are a variety of reasons, they choose to remain silent. Ask yourself why. When I answer that question, I don't like the answer I get.

Maybe he was tired of people acting like dicks towards him? Or maybe he is having a veggie burger? Or maybe he is out swimming?

Nah, you are probably right. Your profound rhetoric probably drove him away.

Congrats!

Shiryu, you're still missing the point here. Most of us (me included) don't give a rat's patoot what you build. Go for it. But we're also concerned about SL in the macro sense -- as a virtual world, as an experiment, as the beginnings of something bigger in the future, how do our actions now impact what will become of SL tomorrow? Will this Grand Experiment flop on its ass? Will it succeed beyond the Lindens' wildest imagination? Or will it die gasping for air because of the lack of control over trademarked content and a rampant disregard among users for the basic law of the land?

I agree that there are dozens, probably hundreds, of trademark infringements in SL. I don't see how that justifies one more infringement. If anything, it frightens me that the day may come when the roof will cave in on all of us because there are too many SL merchants/builders without the creativity to even change their product into a spoof or a parody of its original in order to give themselves an out if lawyers start knocking.

And they will. The moment opportunity is sniffed, they will be here. You cannot be blamed for all of the consequences at that point, but you certainly will bear a portion of the burden.

All this thread has done has been to wake me to my personal responsibility. My responsibility as a member of this community is to notify LL when I see trademark infringements. I want this experiment-that-is-not-a-game to last and to prosper, and I do NOT want opportunistic, uncreative minds to block that path. So thanks for waking me Shiryu. I know now what I have to do.

I wasn't being a dick to him. I think I presented my opinion quite well. He never responded to me though.

Edit to add: great post Cindy!