Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

Maybe would you understand that i did NOT make any Mustang?
I don't like muscle cars and i don't work on any cars i personally don'y like.
You're uninformed, i'm sorry.

And btw, what's with the Nikon? Is that another form of "respect"?[/QUOTE]

It's the camera i own in real life, i love it, and made one. Simple.

Take a few seconds to realie that a Mustage was simply and example, they probly didn't care enough to take a trip to see your cars so that they could name a specific model. Like the entirety of this thread, you continue to ignore the point and snap back with any snide remark you can... lol... no matter how much it lacks in sense. Keep them up though, please, it's amusing.

The problem with ignoring this comes in several flavors.

1) There is precedent for game modifications based on RL intellectual property to be served legal notice to cease & desist their activities (which are done with no monetary incentive). Whether we consider this worthwhile or not, RL companies do. And I have no doubt there are plenty of in-house lawyers twiddling their thumbs who are plenty grateful to find ways to justify their job and their salary.

2) The possibility - however remote - that a RL corporation could cause problems for LL and, by default SL, makes this activity questionable. However cool someone's replication, it's hardly worth any shift in LL's focus from the problems we already have. Does anyone here believe one of these vehicles is worth, say, continued problems with TP?

3) It's unfair to original content creators within SL (and the point was made very well earlier).

4) For those who wish to "escape" RL, jumping into a world full of RL-branded products makes less sense (to me anyway) than entering a world of completely new and unique product.

5) It's entirely disrespectful for those of us in the design profession. If I take an interest, it's because it's bad enough when a foreign company knocks off our product and gets away with it. But to have this kind of thing here and then have it played as some form of "respect"? Pathetic and insulting.

Just out of curiousity, why does LL continue to allow the Star Wars store to advertise? They had ads in the sponsored links, and now have an ad in the classifieds as well. As those ads are put up by hand by the Lindens, they are well aware of the store. When I submitted a promo picture for a pose collection as part of one of the sponsored ads, the picture was rejected because the avatar was sitting on the hood of a car with an Audi logo. The same week, they allowed in the ad for the Star Wars store. It seems an odd double standard.

BTW, if Shiryu is being forced to do this, are they asking all other car markers in SL? Neo Virgo and Cereal Milk, among others, sell RL car models, many of them with textures taken directly from photos of the RL cars. If LL is going to start this precedent, they should not be hypocrites and do it halfway.

I'm as informed as I need to be by your comments. I could, if I felt the need, still inform LL that shapes are often trademarked and that without a proper search they quite likely erred in their judgement.



Correction. You own the product and not the design rights. Second correction. You made a replica and sell it in SL (according to one of the links in your sig).

Why not sell a camera with your own brand and logo?

IIRC (If I Recall Correctly), the Lindens have stated that due to the massive size of in-world content, they generally would be limiting themselves to those cases where someone actually submits an Abuse Report. Chasing down and actively policing every case of infringement would not only be near-impossible, but also need a staggering number of employees.

Personally, I agree with that stance, as it means that the community overall is responsible for policing their own content. As long as the Lindens take a consistent and equal response to each case, I'd be perfectly happy to Abuse-Report any cases of copyright infringement I see.


- Newfie

Okay, here's one area I completely agree with...

Firstly, Lucas is -crazy- about people using his creations without his permision. He really does get upset about this from my understanding, though I confess to doing no actual research on the subject myself. I don't image it would be too hard to say, "Hey, do you aprove this?" in an email to him. Because, so far as I've been told, he just likes to be aware of what his creations are representing. Which, is the point in all of this..

For example...
Nike isn't going to care if you make, say, $200USD on some dupes of their shoes in game. It would cost them more to go to court to sue you. What they -DO- care about is that these dupes you're making, could be used in conjunction with or supporting any number of activities Nike might be very upset about. It's more so that by taking a company's logo, you are speaking for them, that angers them. Because no matter how well you do, you'll probly not put a dent in them financially speaking.

However...
I have been baffled as to why certain things in SL go completely unseen, no matter their popularity. I've seen at least 4-5 reditions of this new cat woman outfit, yet.. some little nobody (i don't mean that offensive, just in monetary worth in world!) had some cute little batman and robin outfits, and lost almost his entire store...including the things that were in no way copywritten. Now, that does seem pretty unfair.

I'd like to note that nothing I've just said in any way agrees with what Shiryu Musashi has posted, because I still hold very strongly to those views. Only that Cristiano Midnight has touched on a very good point.

Good question.



Agree. But then from the effort it took for me to get a straight answer out of them on the ToS and IP issues, I personally didn't get the impression they would actively pursue the issue; instead relying on resident AR's.

Further, they apparently aren't going to pursue copyright infringement in accordance with the DMCA - only trademarks which are separate. The problem is (and I alluded to this in my Hotline posts), trademarks themselves are not always obvious. As stated, a shape (e.g. the Coke bottle) can be trademarked. So unless the Liaison knows it's a trademark, they'll likely not enforce anything. And there's little chance they're checking to see which shapes are trademarked.

Ok, that I can agree with for with as a reasoning. However, when they are knowingly putting up an ad that is clearly infringing, why turn a blind eye to it? That is what I don't understand.

I don't remember myself being there and able to defend myself when i was anonimously abuse reported on the first place. The forum instead is a public place, he's more than free to step on and state his reasons and defend himself.



I'm sorry to delude you, but they just asked me to change the display signs in wich there was just the logo and nothing else. My cars can, and will, stay unchanged. Like the cars of many other car makers in second life (Cereal, SteveR and quite a lot of others) that do wonderful work and deserve all the possible respect.

There will be a car show on sunday, come give a look.

It was probly not the smartest thing to advertise such and event in this thread of all threads. You do realize how tempting it is to show up just to see how blantent these logos are on your cars to see if maybe LL missed them, because they are busy people. I keep wondering if they only told you to take it off the signs, and just missed it on the cars, and so you're making a lot of assumptions. I really don't think you're supported by LL the way you think you are.

I've been wanting to invite one or two of the Nike people i know into SL but haven't simply because they would go off if they saw Nike product. They DO know it's used in games (I asked a few months back), but among designers, Nike people are known for being especially passionate about their work.

So while i entirely agree with what you're saying, there are people - the designers themselves - who couldn't really care about anything other than their efforts being disrespected by someone grabbing some catalog images and selling the designs as their work... whatever their stated intention.

I posted the following in another thread earlier today. Perhaps it more appropriately belongs in this one.

Imagine how I feel when (a) I'm told by major content creators that since I do not create a lot of content in SL, my opinion doesn't count, I can't have any influence, and I should shut the fuck up; and (b) I see some of my RL content (yes, mine, as in individually, as part of a team, and as a corporate holder) imported and copied inworld and sold by others. I'm not making it up. Both have happened to me. And to others.

I think it's fine that people are making incomes in SL. Personally, I'm very tolerant of trademark and copyright infringement, as well as the questionable ethics of copying styles, images, etc., because virtual worlds and virtual economies are very new, and the entrepreneurs are individuals who do not have inworld corporate resources and should not be held entirely to RL standards. Yet. And I think that virtual entrepreneurialism and production will soon become a respectable factor in various economic networks.

That said, you can't have it both ways. You can't demand respect inworld for your content, and not respect those who are in SL for entirely different reasons - and may, in fact, be a source for your SL commodities and inspirations. You can't call someone else's RL content entirely (notice that word, "entirely" your own, simply because you copied it and brought it inworld. You can't call for the integration of SL and RL economic paradigms, and not be prepared to break up the cloistered environment of content creation in SL. You can't scream about one law or ethical standard being broken while conveniently ignoring others. You can't ask for respect without giving some in return, i.e., you can't tell people to shut the fuck up just because you don't see their pixellated clothing on SLExchange or in somebody's mall. I guarantee you've seen their products in real retail outlets, and I guarantee you can find copies of their work in SL.

In fact, the use of logos, shapes, images, likenesses, reputation, perceptions, and even functions are bound up in trademarks and copyrights. Companies regard them as property and are usually willing to defend their exclusive rights by whatever legal means possible. Saying that these companies do not care how these factors are used is wrong-headed. Saying that these companies should be grateful because you provide "advertising" by using them is irrelevant. The only possible defense is to demonstrate that SL is a negligable interest, just a "game" - and apparently we've already established that it's more than a game , right?

I have a financial interest in a major contractor for Daimler Chrysler. I do not want Daimler Chrysler to lose control of these factors. If someone uses the logo, likeness, reputation, and function of a Daimler Chrysler product in SL, I want management to know about it and make an informed decision as to what to do. Because it's my own money-making business we're talking about here, right?

Personally, I don't think that the commodities presently sold in SL represent a risk to any corporate or individual interest. But that could change in the future. If you're an SL content creator and you aren't thinking along those lines, you should be.

On edit: btw, I am not the person who AR'd Shiryu Musashi, nor did I know anything about it until I read this thread.

Actually we had quite a long talk about it, and they do know exactly how my cars are made (like the cars made by many others after all), so no, they didn't miss anything.

And if people came to that event just to try and attack my cars, well, they would just spoils themselves the fun, and ruin the effort of the people that organized the event, not too smart on their part honestly.

Daphne,


All of that stuff is stealing and should be removed from the world. I mean I love my cookie monster slippers, but they copyright and trademark infringement like a mug and out and out theft.

Also letting all this stolen RL Branding into SL is a slap in the face to all the designers that have gone out of their way to build real brands whithin SL, that are unique and don't steal from Real World companies.


The defense of "Ohh we are giving Coke free advertising! They world love it" is complete and utter bullshit. I worked for a very large and well known corporation in the US that had a whole department dedicated to protecting the branding of the company. This included making sure the company color was the correct color red on on everything from newsletter to business cards. The majority of corporations would freak the hell out if they saw how their brands were used in SL, and would send C&D letters. Corporations are very protective of their brands and logos, they spend millions of dollars to develop and promote them. Do you really think they would be thrilled some 2 bit hack put their logo on some crap ass shirt in SL that the seams don't even match on?

Second Life is receiving a lot of press. The day is going to come when like in "There", some Corporation comes knocking and wants to set up shop in SL. They are going to be really pissed to find that people are already selling their products and 1/2 assing it at best.


Is it really worth risking all of Second Life so some tartass hoochie can walk around in a Baby Phat tee and drive a fake Benz?

lol... if you say so.

I'll be glad to visit. I wont be attacking any cars though, I'll just be on the lookout for copyright infringements. But if you're so sure that you're not infringing...nothing to worry about, right?


- Newfie

I think we should all go to the car show!

Please do so if you wanna spend your time filling abuse reports on 90% of the cars in SL.
You will just waste your time, the time of the lindens, and probably even a lil bit of the time of the car makers.
If your way of having fun is trying to ruin other people's fun, then have fun.

loll letz go 2 teh car showe end reoprot him loll hahaha fic romloafaololl

Newfie, your forum AV is kinda familiar.

Lol panda did i ever tell you that i (platonically) love you?

Don't you be dragging tart ass hoochies into this we did nothing to you. Hands off my Maybach!

hey baby

pfft.. always the caveats with you automakers!