Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

LOL!


We love you Panda!

OMG! Laquita posted???

Ok. I won't bother giving my serious response to this now. As most of us will be too busy boob drooling.

Your stolen Maybach. Don't make me call Wuvme in this thread.

IMHO, I enjoy seeing creative ways that people can parody RL brands much more than seeing someone make a knockoff of the real thing.

Nissan could become Nippon and Toyota could morph into Toymotor (for example), and more than likely no one would object.

As far as the shapes of vehicles being subject to patent or copyright laws, I have my doubts -- have you ever noticed the number of different vehicles that strongly resemble each other in RL?

P2

Eboni... why haven't we met yet? LOL

I don't understand why people think they're doing an established brand a favor when they freely use their trademarks without permission. I think Eboni explained it quite clearly. The bottom line here is, if it's not yours... don't use it. It doesn't matter if you're making money or not off of it. It's not yours, you don't have permission to use it. Period. I worked for a huge law firm's IP department and there is no such thing as a small trademark infringement. A C&D is just the beginning of a costly nightmare for those who think they can just use any company's trademark, logo, brand, slogan, whatever.

Take a look at http://wipo.com if you have any doubts about trademark infrignement.

It's a matter of tastes, i really dislike it since when they begun doing it in modern disney's comics, that's why i don't.

Hey Laquita!!! Your baby born yet? You figure out who the father is?

Had you not forsaken me for a life spent living amongst the Children of the Corn, you would have met Eboni by now.

I still think Eboni isn't real.. but that's for another pondering question.. hehe

Bravo to the Lindens for enforcing their TOS.


Cat

Corn has ensured the survival of my people for many centuries, you on the other hand, I've IMed bajillions of times never to get a response... corn is more reliable

Plus I like corn.

Ok, I like you too.

And Pen (even though she ignores me too)

*sigh*

...goes back to the cornfield...




just went to the *movie title* thread and *Children of the Corn* was the last entry!! LMAO

ACK!! I don't ignore anyone!!

I just forget to talk first most of the time.

*hugs Blossom*

Doubt no more: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html

And yes, there are issues with conflicts. At that point lawyers get involved. But a "difference" to the average person is not equivalent to a difference to a designer.

Thank you all for this entertainment lol i'm totally amazed at the number of people who have nothing better to do then whine about someone using something in a fookin game that they *shouldn't*.... like every single one of you who designs doesn't or hasn't done it. Good lord...i'd venture to say 90% of the textures used EVERYDAY by thousands in this game for one reason or another are copyrighted by SOMEONE, but because they aren't Nissan or Ford or some other company (that i'd venture to say has ALOT bigger and better things to do than worry about pixels in a fookin game lol) with a big name, no one worries or cares. i'm amazed at the number of you who are so incredibly prudish and such bores that you get off on jumping someone who has been sharing his talent with you (at an altogether way too cheap price i might add) for so many months. i'd also venture to say that whoever reported this idiotic thing to Lindens...taking their time and attention away from the REALLY important things, like addressing major exploits by the REAL WRONG-DOERS...the ones who can and are trying to do REAL damage.....is simply jealous because this particular vehicle, like his others, is an amazing creation. So i laugh but not at Shiry...i laugh at the ones who have totally forgotten that this is a game and are so obviously bored, they seek out penny ante things to jerk about..... how sad.

Recognizing the tongue-in-cheek of the last sentence, in the case of trademarks there might be substantially more to it than we might suspect.

There's an interesting forum thread on the Classic Toy Trains Magazine website concerning a suit by the Union Pacific Railroad against model train manufacturers Lionel and Athern for trademark infringement. The thread starter provides a link to an article about trademarks, which includes the statement:

"Trademarks must be actively used and defended. A company claiming (even registering) a trademark that fails to make active use of it, or fails to defend it against infringement, may lose the exclusive right to it."

The Wikipedia article on trademarks contains a similar statement. I've never heard of any equivilent to this about copywrite or patents, but assuming it's true, it would seem to put an imperative on trademark holders to be very protective about branding, and to play hardball on infringements. "You snooze, you lose" as one person in the train thread puts it.

The entire thread is an interesting read --
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=16750

Another interesting forum thread is at FlightSim.com, a flight simulator enthusiast site, discussing the infringement problems of running virtual airlines based on those in RL -- as in the forced closure of a Virtual Cathay Pacific Airways by the real life Cathay Pacific for infringement of Cathay's logo and livery.

That thread begins, familiarly enough, with someone shouting, "This is only a game!":
http://forums.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=5845&mesg_id=5845&listing_type=search
The editorial sparking the flight sim thread, "Virtual Airlines and the Law" can be found at
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/op-ed/ed235.htm

Definitely tongue-in-cheek. And the issue came to mind when the Focke Wolfe retort was made. I'd venture a guess that FW isn't in business anymore and consequently has no concern for their trademark.

More interesting is how so many obviously neither understand this issue with trademarks, nor understand this has nothing to do with copyright. LL doesn't respond to copyright issues as they've made perfectly clear. They are not required by the DMCA to do anything, and advise those wishing to report a copyright infringement to contact the copyright holder directly. The only person who can AR a copyright violation is the copyright holder.

I don't. But then it has taken me substantially longer to begin building an inventory. And in RL i most definitely do not copy designs. My clients could sue my ass off.



I believe you're confusing TRADEMARK violations with COPYRIGHT violations. You lose the effect when such a basic mistake is made.



One would think; however, there are plenty of precedents to suggest they can and do take an interest. Just look at some of the game mods that have been shut down. And every time I've read a thread by some hurt modder, it's sounded just like this one.



With all due respect to his technical abilities in crafting with prims, I do not consider copying designs a "talent".



It only takes one pissed off corporation to do potentially much more damage to SL than "REAL WRONG-DOERS". No one is going to make everyone happy and we have to realistically expect hacks. However, considering it's so easy to avoid the wrath of a corporate legal team, it seems extremely prudent to send a Liaison to deal with this most basic issue.



I'd remind you that none of us started this thread to cry about a "penny ante" issue.

If Nissan and Toyota sue him, is it still a game?

And here's a perfect example of what i was referring to as lack of respect:



That's probably why everyone is able to do it no problems, right? Not to mention the script that allows the "copied design" to move, and to move fairly well, considering SL's limitations (and i can safely tell that 90% of my cars' success is due to the script that actually makes them driveable, more than the design, since i get LOTS of supportive comments from people that sure don't have japanese inport cars as their favourite).
You really think it's much easier to put a complex real world item into less than 30 prims and to make it look even slightly realistic than simply create an half decent design with four wheels, two doors a bonnet and a cockpit? Or maybe just copy a design and not telling anyone one did, since he called it Musashi Sluttylady X instead of Nissan Fairlady Z?

So basically you're telling me, for instance, that if one does really awesome scale models in real life, he can't be considered talented, right? After all he didn't design them on his own. I'm sure everyone and his mom is perfectly able to build and paint a scale model of a plane or a car, or whatever else, making it look actually realistic. maybe in it's own diorama.
With 20 years of hobby behind my back, i can kinda safely telly you: "sorry bud, i don't think so".
Or if you don't think this, maybe you're telling me that ability with photoshop and 3d modeling has less dignity than ability with real life brushes, glue and acrylic paint? Again i think there are plenty of graphics designers that would think slightly different on this matter.
Besides my own talent or lack of thereof, on wich i'm not the one that has to judge, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but talent doesn't necessarily means originality.
(and besides that, i express my own originality in other things besides cars, that like Pandastrong effectively pointed out are simply an hobby to me, exactly as scale model kits has been for years)

/yawn

Why can't you continue to makes the cars as you have (which are great) and not steal logos and copyright material?

The scale model kit defense doesn't work in your case. When models are created the Corporations Nissan, Ford, Toyota, etc enter contracts with the crafter to ensure the models meet a certain standard and PROTECT their brandname. Unless you have some deal we don't know about, you have done none of the above, so what you are doing is not making Prim model cars in SL, you are stealing logo and copyright (and possibly doing damage to a brand) without the expressed written permission of the owner.


Just mkae the cars, and make your own logos. It is pretty simple.

I believe there is a legal situation where those companies who cannot show that they acted diligently to protect their copyright -- regardless of how insignificant were the violations -- are in jeopardy of losing future protection. In other words, you either defend it or you lose it. So there are cases where the dollar value of the infringement is immaterial. Some companies (Lucas is one) are very aggressive about this.

The rest of this thread seems to me to be another example of what happens when ill-informed, untrained users are set free to create content. We have a wonderful virtual world here where great things are accomplished -- but the cost is that the lack of control over quality and legal protection is always hiding in the shadows.

Shiryu, rather than accuse someone who did the right thing of being a "griefer", why not Google "copyright law" and read up for yourself first? I think you'll find that, while you are wrong on this issue, you could have worked around things very easily and avoided the whole hassle.

But first you have to admit you don't know anything about copyright law.

Copyrights, no. You always have a copyright. You can't loose that, short of it expiring, which takes forever.

Trademarks, however, yes, need to be defended.

1: Because the veteran liason that contacted me stated that as long as i don't use big display signs that contain ONLY the car logo, i can continue using the name and the small logos on the cars, and it seems that some of the people in this thread (probably distracedby the difficult task of poison spitting) overlooked this little element. For me this is fair and square and removed the big signs immediately. That should be as final as it could be.
This thread is not about "oh my god the lindens came and stripped my cars of their logos", because that did NOT happen, it's about "darn, some people don't have a crumb of respect, they cowardly follow their own agenda hiding behind anonymous abuse reports to deal as much damage as they can without even taking a second to send me an im in the first place"

2: Because i make replicas, and replicas have no value, FOR ME in the first place, if they are not exact replicas. As a sports car and racing enthusiast, i love the Nissan Fairlady Z, not the Nippon Sluttylady X. Second life is about making what one LIKES, and that's what i do. It's like: i cheer for Dallas Cowboys, i'm not gonna wear a shirt of Dulles Cowgirls.

3: Because i feel extremely hypocrite to just copy a design and put my OWN logo on. It's NOT my design. I put MY Logo on MY clothes, since they are designed by ME.

3: Because 80% of other car makers (and not only car makers) use real life logos and names, for the same reasons as i stated before (and they do some awesome work). Some, as Milo Bukowski for instance, as a matter of TASTES prefer to make completly original cars, i respect them and more power to them. As a matter of TASTES i and many others prefer to make exact (to the limits of SL) replicas, in our little FIC hearts we consider them beautiful as they are, that's it.

4: Because for instance, as any hobbyst i like complex reproduction projects, i'm currently working on 4 race cars based on the Z chassis, that compete in the japanese Super GT championship. They are (in my little enthusiast eyes) really beautiful, but they are COMPLETELY covered of real life sponsors. Changing them wouldn't have any sense. Should i give up making what i LIKE in second life and throw in the recycle at least 40 hours of careful source research and texturing because we have mr rule lawyiers in world and here in the forums that can't wait to find the next target to spit their venom on? I really don't think so.
For my very own race car of my very own racing team i will have my own logos and SL based sponsors (like i had for the Supra), and i encourage everyone to do the same (leaving the cars moddable and having templates available for download) But that's it. That one has to be completely unique and that's why i'm conceing to realism. If other people want to do the same they just have to download the templates and open photoshop.

5: because modifying ALL of my almost 40 cars (including all the colors and the variations) would be an IMMENSE pain in the butt that i'm not willing to add to my already heavy workload.

6: it would be EASIER to make my own cars, no countless hours of research involved. But simply enough, that's not what i LIKE to do and have fun doing.

I can respect technical ability and conceded as much. However the context of this thread is one of Design and IP ownership and nothing more. The problem is that you're sharing your talent for prim-crafting along with someone else's design and trademarks to which you have no claim. That is what this discussion is about. Please attempt to stay on topic.

Let me be clear: You are attacking my RL profession. I consider your actions to be an assault on what I do for a living and my future efforts to move into virtual markets (including the fabrication of RW product from virtual designs - which has been recently documented). You can and should expect that I will react accordingly.