Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

I don't know what they do! I assume they go to wherever the item is located and deal with it in the simplest fashion available to them: they delete it. Either that or they contact the owner and tell them to mod it (if they can). Or they contact the creator and tell them to mod it (but do they tell them to mod all the others sold?). Ummm, or they just delete it!

Is there any statement from LL on how they actually deal with trademark violations?

They don't delete unless the creator refuses to remove or alter. And generally they dont target owners, just people using trademarks to make a profit (Club owners, retailers, etc).

I think the dilemmas of enforcing trademark are the reason this thread exists. If "Farewell Feline" is a registered trademark and LL sanctions "Farewell, Feline" store A but leaves "Farewell Feline" store B across the street untouched, the owner of store A is going to be understandably upset and feel that she has been singled out. And it does leave the impression that somebody (possibly the owner of store B) is specifically targeting store A.

Zero enforcement would be economical and popular with many users, but it leaves LL wide open for litigation. Zero tolerance would require hiring a prohibitive number of enforcers and might feel draconian and oppressive.

I don't have any answers. I think LL is legally and ethically bound to enforce the trademark policy as best they can. I agree with the concept of trademark. But I think that violators have a valid point when they point out the inconsistant and seemingly arbitrary nature of the enforcement.

Wouldnt something like a Hello Kitty avatar, or a replica of a Nissan sports car in a virtual world such as ours be simply considered a form of "fanart"? If the latter car does not have any of Nissan's logos on it (or has logos that have been sufficiantly "parody-ized", does its existance matter?
==Chris

All copyrighted work use is not necessarily illegal use.

I have made several AVs from famous anime characters that I am not distributing. It is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Well actually it's a grey area, but your probably "safe" regardless.

Well, Hello Kitty in and of itself is a trademark I believe. So that changes things a bit. "Fanart" doesn't fly when it's for sale, though. But yes, you can make car knockoffs just fine as long as you aren't tryint to brand them with a name brand... Look at the cars in Grand Theft Auto, for example.

LL is (quite smartly) holding themselves as a common carrier to avoid having to police all SL. Hell, I find it hard to look at every item at one clothier let alone the whole grid.

Trademarks are different than copyright. LL needs a sworn statement from the copyright holder in order to take-down under the DMCA. For trademarks, once they have been notified of a trademark violation they must act or face 100 Toyota lawyers who will ask for and get every e-mail ever sent to them about Toyota. After a few zillion dollars in legal fees, Toyota will show that LL knew of the violation and didn't act and will get a judgement in excess of the value of LL. Someone doesn't have to be a trademark holder to start this ball rolling, and regardless of the motivations of the reporter, LL must respond. So if there is arbitrariness it resides strictly in the reporter and that will look "unbalanced" to the violator. The simple solution is to not copy trademarks. I've seen trademark violation in SL, but I don't care and don't want to give LL work not related to the game.

I do not welcome our new Toyota overlords. They may make good cars but haven't much experience in things-that-aren't-quite-MMPORGs.

We also got reported for some extremely tiny.. barely visible logos on our watches and some brands on clothing a few days back. And I for one think that if they wanna come down on some of us they should get everyone at the same time.

I dunnu if its envy, boredom or just pure evil that makes the griefers do this but i would like you to know it took me all of 15minutes to remove the logos and replace it with my own. And yes they still look the same. Gonna report us for forgery next? lol

My vote is for just pure evil.

-Ghoti

I've seen the term "griefer" bandied about quite a bit in regards to this issue and I wonder if those using it realize that the term can be easily applied to them.

When I rez at a telehub, I consider it griefing to have to be confronted by a wall of Real World branded items - all advertising to me in their own way. The minute I see this stuff, I don't think, "Oh, it's the Second Life version of AC/DC and Van Halen, I wonder what they are", I think of the RW originals. That's the power of brand association and why it is assigned a dollar value in the real world. It's also why it's being used on SL products, so let's not kid ourselves that there's no connection.

As strange as it may seem, some people come to Second Life to escape the real world (and you can find that word used often in conversations). But if SL is chock full of RW brands, trademarks, and other IP, how can they escape? Should they hide on an island? on their 512 plot of land? How insensitive is it to expect them to do that? Aren't those selling these branded items really behaving no differently than all the telemarketers and spammers we claim to hate in RL? Worse. At least those "griefers" usually have the legal right to market and spam their crap. The SL versions almost certainly do not.

Think about it from the other side and put your greed away for a moment. By simply using your own SL-originated brand, you may still be spamming people in SL - but at least it's something original and perhaps interesting to the person. But if it's just a rip of a real trademark, it isn't even that. And sometimes it's just a reminder of all the bad things people go into SL to escape. I can't think of many worse forms of griefing.

Size and visibility has no bearing on the legality of using the logos. Whether it's tiny, ot can be seen from low orbit makes no difference.




I have news forya, it's none of the above. Many of those who do the reporting are doing it because they're trying to prevent the copyright/trademark abuse from getting out of hand. That's not griefing, that's community spirit.

Only question I have....if all it took was 15 minutes to replace the logo, why didn't you do it right in the first place and not leech off the work of others?


- Newfie

You can flip it around and see it from alot of peoples views, what about the person that keeps the name and logo intact to give credit to its original designer instead of taking the credit for it him/herself.

Or the person that wants to bring something familiar into SL. Even if your escaping from RL the music everywhere is from RL radio stations and most of the avatars still look like people or animals. There are houses and familiar structures. The lindends made trees. There is an economy and the valuta is called Linden DOLLARS $. Where would your inspiration come from if not from RL?

Doing something that ruines something for another person when it isnt called for is what i would call griefing.

It was some of the first items i ever made in SL, had just learned how to do textures and alphas and at the time everything was new to me. My later work is based upon my own ideas and design.

And if its about the comunity spirit, why dont they just send the designer a message informing them that its against the rules?

Because people will say STFU, go away, who do you think you are!
The Lindens have the authority and can inform the person correctly about what is a violation and what isn't.

I also want to point out that Robin Linden ask us to report trademark violations.



/invalid_link.html

When that "credit" includes making a profit from the work, I don't give that person much credit for being anything other than opportunistic. And by the way, I've not seen any vehicle that gave due credit to the "original designer". Has some SL car brand prominently displayed the name of the lead designer for the car they're imitating? I've read a lot of lip-service for this, but I've yet to see a single RL designer name given due credit. Please point one out to me since somehow amidst all that mix of SL and RL branding, I somehow missed the name and credit that is supposedly being given its due.



There's a difference between bringing something familiar into SL for personal use and bringing it in to capitalize on it by using the RW association to sell something.



I agree. But then the ToS effectively instructs residents to contact the rights holders directly in accordance with the DMCA's guidance on copyright infringement. We're discussing trademarks here. However, based on one Hotline complaint, I suspect we'll soon hear the MPAA has taken action on someone in SL for copyright infringement.



And some look like little floating balls and some like zombies.



And there are some dwellings that look nothing like anything ever created in RL. The point is, they're original creations (when they're not ripped exactly from the RW) and that is the point.



Which can be deleted from our parcels.



Wow. Really stretching for excuses here. hahaha



There's a big difference between "inspiration" and copying. If someone is inspired by Toyota, they can create "Toyodi" and flip the rings of the logo around or something. But when they copy it with absolutely no change, that's not "inspiration". In case you missed it, that's the topic of discussion.



I agree. And the first moment I teleported somewhere I was hit by all those RW trademarked t-shirt designs and the SL I'd hoped to find was immediately ruined for me. I was almost immediately "griefed". That wasn't called for. Especially since these infringers could have created their own fictional brands with just a little effort. But I guess their greed is more important; have to plaster their "product" all over the telehubs so everyone is forced to see it.

Considering how anti-corporate some of the supportive arguments are (i.e. the "screw them they're big corporations anyways" kinds of comments), it amazes me that apparently so few of those arguing in favor of this illegal practice realize where much of the infringement springs from... the very greed and selfishness that marks the worst corporate behavior. Way to go.

Dunnu why your commenting everything i wrote, i never said i support the use of brands or copying.

Just pointing out that im not a fan of the way theese matters are dealt with. And SL aint the place to escape from RL to cause everything in SL is in one way or another from RL.

Im sure that a newsletter going out to everyone explaning the importance of not using RL Brands, copywright issues .. etc etc is one of many better ways of doing this. And wont make designers that have spent houres upon houres building something ..feel targeted/griefed. Cause currently there is only a chosen few that has been reported and if you fly around there is still brands everywhere.

So if everyone violating this got reported the lindens wouldnt have time to do anything but sending IM's to theese people.

On the other hand maybee & hopefully this thread will inspire more people to do the right thing and stop using brands and other peoples work.

I was responding to what appeared to be questions (minus the proper punctuation) and showing how your use of the term "grief" could be seen from a different perspective. In fact, I view it as an attempt to insult those taking the anti-trademark violation position; a form of bullying.

In the meantime, I guess there are no real life designers getting their due credit in SL since you've not provided an example and apparently don't intend to do so. A shame.

Well i guess your right, but i dont see how using there designs and changing the brand makes it any better.

And as far as proper punctuation and spelling goes. English is a second language for me

HIO!
If I'm not mistaken, which is completely possible...any personal copy from a legally advertised region might fall under the safe zone of personal use. Think of it like this... If you get a magazine that has the "brandX" logo, you've purchased rights to that page....and its component parts. Since you are making the vehicle yourself, texturing it yourself, scripting it yourself, etc... The logo can be scanned and pinned on a prim... as a legal "personal" copy. It's a pain, but as long as you only make one copy of any given logo per vehicle, you can have a legally replicated SL car. Sure, it'll cost you 10 linden to upload each logo, each time you make a car, but on the same note, you are also giving the original creators their due reference and respect...by stamping THEIR mark on YOUR creation.
Or you could also do something silly like put a little stylized "SL" or your initials on the logo as well, which by US law makes it a "noticable improvement or deviation" from the original, and thus not copyrited....which means you could file your own copyright....which can be done for 37 cents US.
Just a thought since I know there are more than cars that sport logos and more than a few dupers out there.
LAT-R!

thanks for waking up this fantastic thread

This is completely untrue with regards to trademarks. What you describe is not fair use, and does not protect you from action.

I for one would much prefer Chevrolet overlords. After all, they're the Heartbeat of America!

You purchased a magazine. You purchased no rights or licenses. Fair use is another matter. Just be sure you understand how it applies.

But Toyota is the defibrillator

ref: Detroit News