Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

Shiryu Musashi: "i will not change a bit of my cars until ALL the millions trademarks in second life are removed, from clothes, cars, vehicles, buildings.."

No, you are never a dick, Pendari.

I was specifically referring to who are trying to act like Grade A Intarweb Comedians but are just coming off as hostile children.

C'mon man, I was a dick too!

Perhaps someone missed the post where I conceded stooping down to someone's level to make a point. Should I now assume that those defending illegal activities and a blatant disregard for the ToS (among other things) intend to turn this thread into nothing more than an attack for the sake of attacking?

*looks around*
*Finds (untrademarked/copyrighted) dead horse.*
*pulls out a stick*
*beats dead horse*

Anyone wanna join...this is fun

I didn't miss it Csven. I disagree with Panda's opinion that others were being "dicks" in this thread (even though I adore Panda). I actually thought it was going along pretty well. A little heated maybe, but was a decent discussion overall I think.

I give it 4 out of 5 stars!

Your point is that you can successfully act like you are 12?



You know what they say about assuming loll fic hahaha!

Oh shit, I misunderstood! I thought these posts were directed at Shiryu. But through FIC confirmation I learned that we have some famous people playing SL! Turns out they were just giving reviews!






That was for you, Pen

If your assessment of Shiryu's behavior is that it reflected that of a 12 yoa, then yes (although I personally don't see an age correlation between wanting to ignore the rights of others and then feeling slighted when those same standards are applied to you)

shiryu, you have an amazing automobile script on your hands. i don't really care if your car is a toyota replica or something of your own unique design. people will enjoy driving it. in fact i like muscle cars and exotic sports cars and don't like wimpy little japanese imports at all but your supra is still my favorite car to drive in SL.

there is no reason for you to fight this losing battle where you are clearly in the wrong from a legal stand point. you can contribute a lot without mimicking rl designs. prim up some cool stuff of your own design.

i have a lot of respect for your work, but no sympathy for your rant here. i hope you come around.

Look, whether or not you agree with copyright laws in part or in toto or think that they should be abolished or that they're counter-productive, well, all that's really beside the point --- unless you're lobbying in RL for legislative changes on state, national, and international levels.

What obtains here is that such laws ARE in effect. And if companies like Toyota, Nissan, and Playboy DON'T "flex their muscles" and insist on respect for their copyrights in Second Life, then (if I understand copyright law at all) they'll be forfeiting the ability to have their copyrights enforced in OTHER virtual worlds as well. Other virtual worlds? Yes --- such as the Metaverse that LL would like Second Life (plus whatever else comes along) to eventually morph into. These companies HAVE to insist, through litigation if necessary, on their intellectual property rights being secure at THIS NASCENT STAGE OF THE METAVERSE or else they're likely to be totally fucked from here on out.

(And Linden Lab doesn't need to be wasting its resources on counter-litigation or defense of itself in court; it makes much more sense for the Lindens to police SL themselves --- and I daresay they seem to do a pretty gracious job of it, in any case.)

Because, you know, Second Life is NOT a game. You don't "play" it any more than you "play" going to a nightclub in San Francisco or to a coffeeshop in Austin; you don't "play" it any more than you "play" building a house with friends on your lakeside property in upstate New York or touring Washington's Smithsonian Insititute or watching videos at your house with a group of friends. It's virtual, yes, but it's not imaginary. And that's precisely why intellectual property rights, if they're valid at all, must also be valid within this cyberspace environment promoted and hosted by the Lindens and (mostly) created by its residents.

Again, yeah, you may have a beef with the notion of copyright PER SE. But you may as well have a beef with the color red being called "red," too; because, unfortunately --- unless you can get lots of people and then courts of law to agree with your preferred definitions --- that's the way it is.

And, c'mon, do we really need bit-for-bit reiterations of what's available in RL to drive (or wear or read) in Second Life? I, personally, would rather be behind the wheel of a car designed by Shiryu Musashi than one designed by Team Nissan or whoever ...

Say it with me boys and girls.

Copyrights don't need to be defended. You have it as long as Copyright law permits.

Trademarks must be defended.

Guys why don't you back off and let my friend handle this one.

I think I am needed in this thread... i'm watching...

I have to say that I agree here with Jauani, Shiryu, and I say that as someone who greatly respects your work. I have long considered you one of the most talented developers in SL with whatever you set your sights on.

You are fighting a losing battle here on an unjustifiable position. I understand why you are upset - you put an incredible amount of passion into what you do, and you are also a car enthusiast that enjoys the challenge of recreating car models. It shows - your work is beyond reproach. However, the brand names and logos do belong to the respective companies, and cannot be used.

The scorched earth strategy isn't a great one - instead of saying "well what about this, and this, and this, and that person doing this, make them take it down", focus on the love of the work and accept the changes you had to make without worrying about what anyone else is or is not doing. They will have their own issues to answer for.

While it is true that what you're doing doesn't 'hurt' any person in SL, it definitely puts LL at liability for allowing it, and possibly even yourself for infringement. With that said, a solution is simple enough... change the name of the line to something that isn't trademarked, use your own logo, and suddenly, it isn't an issue.

Or, as someone else said, send samples of your work to Nissan's PR department and tell them how much you love their cars, and ask if you might have permission to use their name and logo for these virtual replicas. You never know, they may LOVE the idea. It's been known to happen (conceptually, not in SL that I'm aware).

After viewing the first couple of posts here I immediately skip to last page. =)

Has anyone mentioned Slingo, you know, now one of the most popular events in SL. A game Dominus sells for 15k I'm told. http://www.slingo.com, and I think you'll recognize everything here http://games.yahoo.com/games/downloads/sl.html

LL has been informed that this is a patented game and is probably more profitable tham most copyright infringed items in SL. Inconsistency is a problem here.

Do the companies who make scale models not have to go to Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Dodge, Ferrari, Mercedes, whatever to obtain permission to use the companies trademarked logos on their model kits? *raises an eyebrow*

As long as I'm making a "mini" version of a car, it's ok? o.O

You speak of respect, Shiryu (as have many others in this thread), but have you shown any real respect to the creators and trademark holders of the works you reproduce in SL? Have you gone so far as to ask their permission? If you had, and had been given permission, this thread would not exist, because you could have shown LL that you had permission, and it would not have resulted in any content removal whatsoever. Not even the signs.

It is not respectful, in my eyes, to take someone else's work and use it for your own purposes without obtaining permission first. Not respectful in the slightest. You want respect for your work and your efforts (and I am by no means saying that they are isignificant, or that you did not invest much time and effort into what you create), but you do not wish to give real respect to the people who created the works you claim to admire so much that you want to reproduce them in SL? You get what you give, my friend.

Put simply, if the property is someone else's, be it intellectual property OR physical property, ask before you use it. Just take the time to ask first, and all of this can be avoided.

I have in the past, put out items that used trademarked and/or copyrighted works of others. I had a Sesame Street character on a shirt. I love Elmo! Adore Elmo! Think he's the cutest thing ever. But my love for all things Elmo did not, never has, and never will justify my use of his image without the consent of those who hold the rights to the character. As such, that piece of content has been removed.

If I had to guess, the game in SL probably gets around the trademark issue by using the name "SL-ingo" which is last how I saw it labeled. So technically LL may not have to do anything. If someone thinks the game infringes on IP that falls under the DMCA and doesn't like it, then I would imagine LL would give the same advice it recently gave to someone who posted wrt films being shown in SL: contact the owner of the IP and have them deal directly with the individual.

The only violation over which SL residents have any real internal control is trademark afaik.

I know Shiryu, and I like him. He conducts his business honestly, and without malice. I have no doubt that he creates cars here to celebrate how awesome the Real Thing is.

He doesn't deserve the disrespect I've witnessed here for this.

I'm no lawyer, but as far as the issue of trademarks is concerned, it's my understanding that trademarks are not enforceable across domains. This is why things like Sharp (electronics) and Sharp (healthcare) can both exist and not be in conflict.

I did a search on the USPTO website for "Toyota". (http://www.uspto.gov/)

Nowhere is the "Toyota" mark registered for virtual media or anything close to that.

I'm not saying that Shiryu is well within his legal rights to create Supras, because I don't know that. I'm saying that legally, the issue may not be clear cut.

It's not quite that clear-cut. The one case I can think of off the top of my head would be the WWF - "World Wrestling Federation" and "World Wildlife Fund". That's about as cross-domain as one could get. These days I believe the wrestling group is WWE.