Rant: About respect of other people's effort and people that can't mind own business.

I'm pretty sure Ford and Toyota and such would (a) enjoy the free advertising and (b) be fairly flattered that someone took the time to mimic their designs in detail in an online virtual world. Many large companies have seized on similar situations as these to create heartwarming commercials about how an average Joe loves their product so much, that they spent lots of time creating some sort of tribute to said product. Did VW make the band "Funkengruvin'" change their name or logo? NO! They embraced the band and turned it into a good P.R. campaign for their "fahrvernugen" campaign from several years ago.

http://www.purplemoon.com/Stickers/funkengruven1.jpg


Why not notify Ford and Toyota instead of the Lindens, and see if they take the time to enforce their patents / trademarks? I highly doubt they'd consider squelching the free advertising to their advantage. That someone would go around abuse reporting something like this says one thing: that the reporter desperately needs to get a life, unless they were an attorney for Ford or Toyota.

Regards,

-Flip

Flip, What if Jenn was one day able to sell her designs in RL and continued to sell them in SL. And she established a trademark for herself. And someone came into SL and just started using her trademarks on duplicates of items she sold in RL. And I saw it and reported it to LL as they have stated to do. Would you still feel this way?

This scenario is something I can *very* much see happening. As time goes on, there will be a blending of RL and SL businesses, and those who may not be in here now, may very well be here in the future. How do you think those businesses are going to feel coming in here and trying to make a market for themselves, only to find out that someone else has been making money on their designs and logos already? And I personally think a day will come when this very thing will happen. I'll repost my other thoughts here from another thread.

I also remember when Bhodi was researching Non-Profit organizations for VERTU to support. Many of the well known charities would *not* let VERTU raise money on their behalf. Mainly due to PR reasons. [Businesses that are for-profit could very well feel the same way.]

I can understand that. I can fully see there are people in the SL world that I would not like to see promoting my business. Not saying anyone in this thread of course. I also know there are some people that if I saw them wearing a particular outfit that was made from a RL design, I would get a bad taste in my mouth if I ever actually saw the design in RL. So I would not be likely to go and give money to the RL designer/creator because of that person. That means they have taken possible money away from the original designer.

I took down my art gallery about [a year] ago. The SL world was smaller then, and at the time you could not trade Linden dollars for US dollars. After that change, I realized I was walking a really thin line of copyright [and/or trademark] violations. So, I took the gallery down and now I'm taking a new approach. The only images you are going to find in my new gallery (once it is up), are ones that the original creators gave permission for me to display.

Yes. A lot of people are violating copyright laws and [trademarks] in SL. It hasn't been a "major" deal for a long time. But I think as SL continues to grow and evolve, this issue is going to be brought up more and more. And I personally think it is a valid issue to discuss [and think about].

So in essence, you're saying that:

1. Making replica cars take a lot of time
   
2. Making replica cars is a complex task
   
3. You take pride in making a very accurate replica
   
4. You have a passion for your work
   
5. Others have stated they like your work
   
6. Other people have been stealing copyrighted material too
   

So because of that, you should be entitled to use the car manufacturer's intellectual property without permission?

I hate to burst your bubble, but you can shout until you pass out stating excuses about complexity, time and labor involved, passion for your copies, popularity, price, 'contribution to SL', etc, and it still wouldn't change the fact that you didn't do the one thing that matters. That one thing is you didn't get permission from the manufacturer to use their legal property.

Until that specific question is answered, then all the chest-thumping and proclaiming to be a victim of a vast conspiracy means nothing. You stole someone else's work. Period. Until that changes, you're still in the wrong.


- Newfie

Those are very valid points, Pendari, but I still think if someone is that concerned, they should notify the company and allow the company to act if it feels it is necessary. In the Jennyfur example, Jennyfur could be notified and choose to have LL remove the offending content easily enough.

Once SL gets big enough to be noticed, big companies may act... heck, if Shiryu is good enough, maybe they'd hire him to do CAD design! This just reeks to me of someone playing parent to prove that THEY are right and to win an argument.

While I fully support creators rights to copyrights, trademarks and patents, I think it should be the creator who chooses when they can be used, and their enforcement, not another user with an agenda.

Regards,

-Flip

So now you show your true self, you're basically just attacking possible competition (as expected).
Well, let me be clear: you're attacking my SL profession, i consider your actions to be an assault on what i do for FUN. You can and shoud expect i will react accordingly.
If you're so frightened of competition in a GAME, do better than them (if you can) and they will do no harm. That's all.

PS: Just for the record, since you so stubbornly shown your lack of information referring to a Mustang i didn't and won't make, just after receiving the first poisonous answers here i talked to a friend that works for Ford, and plays in SL (and absolutely loves my cars by the way, God bless her). She told me i should just laugh about this and not care, and probably she's completely right.



Sorry to burst your bubble again, but , as i stated many times (and you blatantly chosen to ignore the detail) i got permission from the veteran liason that contacted me, i removed what he told me to remove (a couple decorative signs) and left what he explicitly allowed me to leave unchanged. That's all i'm concerned about, and all YOU should be concerned about, instead of playing attorney and defending trademarks that you are NOT entitled to defend anyway.

Would she be perchance on one of the legal teams representing Ford? Maybe you should try to get her response in writing. I'd be willing to bet she'd not be as eager to put her job on the line by acting as Ford's representative. Heck, maybe they'll be willing to give her a promotion for taking such a bold stance on their behalf.


- Newfie

Since i don't make a Ford and don't plan to make one, i don't see why i should. Other people made one (really great, for being a ford of course) and others are doing another right now (even better). MAybe they could, i don't have any interest in it.
Are you perchanche on one of the legal terms representing anyone at all?

This neither jives with my personal experience in simply trying to get a RL product I designed into SL, nor does it jive with published reports I've read. Companies tend to value their trademark more than what they often consider inconsequential advertising. If putting their product in SL was important, they'd do it. But obviously it's not as I've found out. If it's not on their radar, it's likely that the trade off between free advertising and the potential (however remote) legal loss of control over their trademark isn't worth it.



Which is their prerogative. But don't mistake opportunism for carte blanche access to their IP. For every average Joe who was lucky enough to become a poster boy, there are hundreds or thousands told to shut down or face a lawsuit.



Because if this becomes practice, at some point we all risk SL being labeled as a form of illegal BitTorrent-style site by an outsider. And whether true or not, the potential exists for a very large corporation to exert sufficient legal pressure on LL to ruin SL. Is it really worth that risk just so someone can illegally use someone else's intellectual property?



And I highly doubt they'll give SLers free reign over their trademarks. But what we think doesn't matter. All that matters is that this IP is not ours to use. And I personally am glad to hear someone AR'd this.

Can someone who is replicating someone elses work have a valid reason for getting upset that someone else is replicating said work? Nope, but it happens...and it is quite ironic.

This is really being blown out of proportion. There are real life instances of this type of thing that happen everyday.

Neon Decorative Signs
Mirrors
Posters
Framed Pictures

Im sure if I gave this more thought, I could think of a dozen more things sold, every day, with no royalty being given back to the car manufactures. The truth is they don’t care. They are in the business of selling cars, and want passionate consumers. They like the fact that people become "fans" of their product. All a car company wants to do is sell more cars.

Go to a mall, look for one of those booths that do their own art on mirrors and such, and ask them to see a document from ford saying they could use their car in their pictures. They will laugh at you.

I don't recall ever saying that I was in SL strictly to "play a game". And until you can take virtual product and make RW things with it, you are most definitely not my competition. hahaha

(perhaps I should set up an SL business called Musashi-Do... out of *cough* respect)

So you're telling us your Ford worker friend was giving you permission on a *different* manufacturer's copyrighted material? </sarcasm>

You keep dancing around the fact that you just dont dont have permission to use the material. Crying foul or quoting friends that aren't qualified to give permission (or heck, maybe your god told you in a dream one night), it still doesn't change the fact you're using other's property.

Until you can answer that one satisfactorily, all you're doing is looking like a petty thief that got caught and is trying to wriggle his way out of being responsible for his misdeeds.


- Newfie

You can, and people will *cough* laugh at you.



Sorry to bust your bubble for the nth time, but again, SL is a game.



Getting the oh so great effect of having a senior liason make me remove a couple of decorative signs on my shops, while explicitly granting me permission to keep my cars as they are (a little element that you are going on to blatantly ignore to pursue your own forum agenda)? Well he had the effect of getting me upset for a night, about how pathetic people can be, but oh well, everything passes.

No i'm stating she told me i should laugh about your pathetic attacks, and that's what i'm beginning to do.



And you keep dancing around the fact that while the linden asked me to remove a couple of decorative signs, he gave me explicit permission to keep my cars exactly like they are, names, logos and all.

Until you can answer this one satisfactorily all you're doing is looking like a pretty rule lawyer that has nothing else (or is not able to do anything else) to do in life than trying to spit poison over other people's effort.

Though now you're beginning to get from bothering to amusing, suit yourself.

Newfie, no offense but I dont see why this bothers you so much either. It does seem like you have a motive in being so passionate about this.

Plus read my post above about art sold everyday in real life without permission from the car manufactures. Those instances have been going on for years and years.

That sounds like a challenge. I accept and will, with your permission, use your business name to start competition. I assume you agree to this based on your attitude regarding the matter.



I wonder if you've noticed the other thread on this topic. hahaha



"blatantly ignore"? Perhaps you should take a look at the Hotline section.

I had to repeat it quite a lot of times before you noticing. And your attempt to go to the lindens again after a senior linden (Michael) already ruled on the matter just shows you're beginning to grind to the point you're not even able to accept a contrary ruling in your immature and pathetic attack ad personam.

Anyway, just to put a final word on this matter, i will not change a bit of my cars until ALL the millions trademarks in second life are removed, from clothes, cars, vehicles, buildings.
Are you gonna spend the next two years of your life flying around the grid to AR every single one? Please do, at least it will keep you away from trying to bother (and bore) me.
You're just the usual troublemaker, and as any troublemaker the best way to deal with you is an hearty laugh.

"Jeska Linden: Mulch Ennui: The site that introduced me to SL has user comments, and there was alot of critisizm that this is not a game as much as a glorified chatroom.
Jeska Linden: How would u turn that percieved lemon into lemonaid considering how important community is to SL and its content?
David Linden: Actually, I believe that SL is not a game at all.
David Linden: Games can be part of the SL experience and we need to be much better at communicating what SL is.
David Linden: If we position SL as a game, those that are new may not get it."

/3/e6/49714/1.html

Please take a moment to clarify "attempt to go to the lindens again".




All great works have to start somewhere. In my case, I've decided to start with a thief who apparently thinks they're perfectly justified in using infringing material, then posts a rant on the forums when they get caught red-handed. I'll get to others in due time.





Agreed - I've been laughing about the originator of this post since last night. It's just plain funny to see how they keep avoiding the issue that they were caught doing wrong, and then thinks he's the victim. Like something out of an B-grade slapstick comedy.


Oh and btw....any other friends you have for other unrelated companies that aren't authorized representatives giving you more irrelevant advice that should be posted here?


- Newfie

My topic in the Hotline is a request for clarification on a policy that appears not to be enforced. If you did your homework, the issue of Trademark research was raised at one point, as was proper ToS documentation of Trademark issues. The apparent disconnect between what was said in the Hotline and the actions inworld is what I'm calling into question. If not for this thread, I'd have no reason to raise what I thought was an issue resolved.

Thank you.



I'm sure the Lindens will be happy to hear that you intend to disregard the ToS and whatever policy they set forth. You're such a rebel.

And btw, while you ignored my last request for permission to use "Musashi-Do" as an SL business name, I now realize you've already given me permission:

Csven Concord: "perhaps I should set up an SL business called Musashi-Do..."
Shiryu Musashi: "You can".

Thank you. I look forward to using your brand identity to sell lower cost items. This should be fun.

I missed that. Good catch. Unfortunately it wasn't me. But I soooo wish it was!

Would you like to join me in my new Musashi-Do venture, Newfie?

Ok I am a little confused on something here. A Linden said he could keep the cars for sale with the logos on them...but had to take down the big logo signs. Does this make sense to anyone else? A logo is a logo no matter what the size, so why even bother saying to take down the bigger ones?

No, ZsuZsanna, that didn't make any sense at all to me. No doubt there is some chunk of the story missing for all us bystanders.

Looking at how passionately you try to ruin someone else's work, you don't make it look you have any talent of your own, since you spend so much time criticizing others.

Honestly, your ad personam attack is getting old, and quite pathetic.

Anyway i'm outie, i have another car to finish designing before the end of the day, so can't really afford wasting my time.