Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Live Help or Dead Disservice?

MrsJakal Suavage
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,434
01-18-2005 22:49
From: Cristiano Midnight
MJ,

I love ya darlin, but we will have to agree to disagree. We have not pushed back nearly enough against this pompous, misguided windbag.


Right back at ya Cris...I was just giving my point of view. I've seen a different side than you all have it appears. I agree to disagree lol :p
_____________________
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
01-18-2005 22:53
Prokofy, just so you know, I am not a Live Helper.

I don't own a wagon.

I have my own opinions and often disagree with both my friends and other older players (players of all SL ages for that matter) on these boards. I have no agenda although it's apparent that you do.

You spiral ever further into paranoid oblivion with each one of these dramafests you bring to the boards and I will not assist you with your goal anymore.

Dallas, the floor is yours old buddy. If you have anything pertinent to the actual topic to express, that is. Otherwise, just keep popping off to satisfy your grudge, whatever works for ya man.
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
01-18-2005 23:25
In summary, the Live Helpers are a Feted Inner Elite that exists solely to conspire against us non-creative noobies. Down with the oligarchs! Boo!
Lianne Marten
Cheese Baron
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 2,192
01-18-2005 23:30
Hey if Eggy is a newbie, then everyone else automatically becomes one too! Problem solved! Wow, that was easy!
_____________________
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
01-19-2005 00:29
From: Prokofy Neva
"content baron" <snip> And I don't mean by "baronry" that they RESELL but that they lord it over others because they make content that others are compelled to buy at a high price.


THE THONG COMPELLS YOU!
THE THONG COMPELLS YOU!

YOU WILL BUY MY THONG FOR $L 50,000

OBEY THE THONG!!
Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
01-19-2005 01:53
I'm sorry Pro, but you DO come across as someone who is slightly to moderately paranoid. And, also someone who enjoys being 'the victim'.
_____________________
I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
Dallas Moreau
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2004
Posts: 146
01-19-2005 05:14
Sorry. I'm not an alt. No other accounts to my name or my credit cards. Not using someone else's either. Lindens would confirm, I guess, if they could. Sometimes, too bad they can't. Not trying to hide, no grudge.

You both have a nice day. Hope you work it out, whatever it is.
_____________________
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
01-19-2005 05:14
From: someone
I'm sorry Pro, but you DO come across as someone who is slightly to moderately paranoid. And, also someone who enjoys being 'the victim'.


I don't "enjoy being the victim" because I'm NOT "the victim". I fight back.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-19-2005 05:18
From: Prokofy Neva
I don't "enjoy being the victim" because I'm NOT "the victim". I fight back.


That would be the "Pre-emptive Strike" school of fighting back then?
_____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
01-19-2005 05:20
I rather enjoy playing the victim...just the other night for instance I played the lonely housewife and Lash was a cat burglar with a large whip....oh....um....thought you meant.....nevermind. :D
Hank Ramos
Lifetime Scripter
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,328
01-19-2005 05:39
Yay! Down with Live Help! Burn the silly folks for trying to help people out! They stole our bonuses! They cause lag! They are so decadent, they eat pecan pie! Fight da man!
:D

---------
Disclaimer: this is satire, totally untrue, gut reaction, take with food, don't try this at home, nothing to see here, that is all.
Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-19-2005 05:48
My suggestion...

Prokofy, join Live Help yourself. Leave the group active all the time, and experience what it's like. Teach the other Live Helpers how to do it... And gain a little insight into what they have to put up with on a daily basis.

The last thing they need is whiney little twerps coming on the forum 'cos some big nasty Live Helper dared to say something they didn't like. Get over it!
_____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
Marker Dinova
I eat yellow paperclips.
Join date: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 608
01-19-2005 06:13
From: Siobhan Taylor
That would be the "Pre-emptive Strike" school of fighting back then?


Maybe he could call it "Shock-and-awe"
_____________________
The difference between you and me = me - you.
The difference between me and you = you - me.

add them up and we have

2The 2difference 2between 2me 2and 2you = 0

2(The difference between me and you) = 0

The difference between me and you = 0/2

The difference between me and you = 0

I never thought we were so similar :eek:
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
01-19-2005 06:35
Am I now 'feted' ?
_____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '

From: Khamon Fate
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible.

Bikers have more fun than people !
Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-19-2005 06:36
From: Lecktor Hannibal
Am I now 'feted' ?

Probably, if you disagreed with something Prokofy said.
_____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
01-19-2005 06:41
Yay I can wear that nifty shirt now !! *trundles off and puts on Feted shirt and Live Helper tag*
_____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '

From: Khamon Fate
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible.

Bikers have more fun than people !
Jessica Robertson
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 412
01-19-2005 06:42
From: someone
New from CMFF... Flavored Shoes!

... Try new delicious flavored shoes. Available in six savory flavors. ... Available soon!


That made me hungry.

Jess
Karizon Hatfield
Second Life Mentor
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
01-19-2005 08:13
From: Lecktor Hannibal
Yay I can wear that nifty shirt now !! *trundles off and puts on Feted shirt and Live Helper tag*


I should make a 'Feted Live Helper' shirt and distribute it for free.

discuss.
Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-19-2005 08:14
From: Karizon Hatfield
I should make a 'Feted Live Helper' shirt and distribute it for free.

discuss.

LOL I agree... (I do have a RL Live Help tee-shirt though :))
_____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
01-19-2005 08:45
/me interested in both of these products ! :)
_____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '

From: Khamon Fate
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible.

Bikers have more fun than people !
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
01-19-2005 09:12
From: Dallas Moreau
Sorry. I'm not an alt. No other accounts to my name or my credit cards. Not using someone else's either. Lindens would confirm, I guess, if they could. Sometimes, too bad they can't. Not trying to hide, no grudge.

You both have a nice day. Hope you work it out, whatever it is
.

You two too!
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
01-19-2005 10:55
From: Prokofy Neva
Oz, this troubles me.

I don't know if the LH system has among its perks of office some kind of instant teleporter that enables you to teleport in on people as they play their game.

This guy arrived from the sky on mission.

He wasn't just flying by minding his own business, and happened to catch sight of a for-sale sign.

No, he flew directly to me, landed on my head, to tell me he thought my land price was a "joke" and to tell me I must be "laughing" if I thought I could charge that. He also vented himself of his ideas about freedom of expression.

Now, the price tag was NOT on this land. It was only said here in the forums. And it was contained within a notecard in a notecard giver box. I don't know if he took one. But this was a guy who came to put pressure on me, to tell me I was wrong, to tell me I wasn't playing the game right, to tell me that he was wiser and could set me straight.

But I'm here to tell you that this is an abuse of office. You can't do that to people, like you're God, parachuting into their game and telling them what's what. That's just plain creepy to use whatever vantagepoint the LH devices give you to hector like that.

The fact is, he was all wet. Higher prices are charged on islands of smaller size. Offers were already made at that price and higher. He didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. And he added that crap about "why don't they just buy a $195 private island and be done with it". Whereupon I tried to inform him. And as a plus, confronted him about his bad attitude and behaviour and then negrated him.

How long have Live Helpers or Dead Disservers been flying around in this game doing that to people?

The fact that a hundred Live Helpers rush to the defense of their club and their member without any consideration of the social contract implied by this role in society is so indicative of this game. But it can't go on being a tekkie geeky game like that. The metaverse is bigger than your tekkie geeky game with your arrogant attitudes about capitalism, the West, the free market, and busienss.

Geez, no wonder you only have 20,000 customers after 2 years.

Even dying TSO has more than that.



From your explination, no the Teleport button was not used.

What am I talking about? When someone IMs Live Help along with the usual Profile button is a Teleport button. This allows a live helper to teleport to the user if needed, and it sometimes is needed. No one is supposed to just use it unless they ask directly if they can teleport to the user. And right now (as far as I know) the Teleport button is broken anyway, so you've nothing to really worry about. This is NOT any high guarded fact, its just something that not everyone knows.

But in this case, "he flew down from the sky on a mission", it was not used, as if it was he would have appeared above you as people normaly do when you Teleport.

Your explination of the situation is rather vague, from my reading I came with the following conclusions:

1) You were on a private island only accessable to a few users.

2) This user suddenly appeared out of no where on your head.

3) He yelled and screemed at you and insulted your family honor and your children (or future children)

4) He took off after calling your mother names.

Correct me on any of those above that are wrong.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to answer group slander. I've stated three times now that if you have a problem with someone, what to do, apparently you want to ignore this and instead want to berade(sp) a group of people who have nothing to do with this situation, have fun in your drama-fest.
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
01-19-2005 11:22
From: someone
1) You were on a private island only accessable to a few users.

2) This user suddenly appeared out of no where on your head.

3) He yelled and screemed at you and insulted your family honor and your children (or future children)

4) He took off after calling your mother names.

Correct me on any of those above that are wrong.


Hi, Oz. No, the guy materialized above my head, almost standing on my head, and kind of jounced and bounced around like you do coming out of telehub, he didn't swoop in and land as if he were flying by. It suggests a teleport, but if you say it's broken, I take your word for it. The mode of his arrival isn't so important, except as a possible abuse of the LH system but it's hardly the worst one.

I'm for investigating this group, the Linden's policies, and its members and their personal behaviour. I've been surprised to have people IM me in game and describe some things about this system and this group that really, really bear investigation. I will go on looking into it and remain as impartial as I can, and I invite anyone to contact me in game with their experiences privately.

One fact that has emerged actually surprised me and will surprise or even annoy many. All you have to do to become a Live Helper is to have 30 days in the game without any suspensions/disciplinary actions. That's it! You might have been suspended 60 days ago for being a griefer -- all is forgiven, go help the masses. You might be only 31 days old and not know shit from Shinola, but, no matter, go forth and serve. It's astounding. 30 days without suspensions! Geez, I could go be a Live Helper and go walk a mile in those shoes, hmmm? I've never been suspended and I'm now almost 4 months old.

No, I wasn't on a private island, but one on the grid.
He did appear out of nowhere over my head like an angel.
He didn't insult my family but he questioned the core set of rights in SL, namely, the right to own land, put any price on it you wish, to buy and sell it for any price the market will bear. He did this, even while asserting his own right to "freedom of expression".
He tried to look good, and make it seem like he was even-tempered and getting the best of the argument by not responding to my challenges, but frankly, his action -- coming out of the blue to set me straight about pricing -- was COMPLETELY uncalled for.

It's inappropriate behaviour for one wearing the honourable uniform of the Live Help. And now, combined with other experiences and what has been told to me in game, I don't think so much of this honourable institution as I once did.

Here's my take on it so far. Apparently it's a new system. It may have its kinks. The Lindens face huge customer service problems with doubling of sub numbers this year. They can't pay wages and payroll tax for all those liaisons needed. So they have this age-old MMORPG wizard/boss/mentor thingie in their favor. They can flatter older players (well 30 days is all!) and make them feel special, and get them to work for free by awarding them this title. In exchange for holding somebody's hand while they count prims on their 512, these Live Helpers get a fantastic perch where they can capture the newbie audience, make friends and influence people, bring people to their clubs/shops/businesses/builds, and in general, make hay while the sun shines. It's nice work if you can get it : )

I think, however, in the long run, to prevent customer alienation and abuse of game perches like that, the Lindens need to impose more than a 30-day age limit. They're making changes in the game that harm some so they need to buy off certain classes of people and old players are among them. Maybe they want to help their old friends have these great new advertising perches, especially since they keep them out of the Ahern newbie area with their advertising. (I think that's ridiculous, by the way. I would have been happy to be greeted by somebody saying "buy my land" or "buy my hair" when I first landed instead of spending weeks finding my way to those things.) They need to train the LH better. AND they need to sprinkle more liberally throughout the system the paid Lindens, and these shouldn't just be exploited and underpaid telecommuters, they should be in-house staff who are tied up to the pulse of the management and can provide it with necessary feedback.

The key to enhancing this system is better screening, testing of knowledge, review of history (groups, etc.) and TRAINING. And supervision by Lindens. Finally, a system of triage and referral must be better instituted. No customer should be turned away with no answer, or told to just file a bug report, or told "But that's not true!" about his experience. The Live Helpers shouldn't be feted and cossetted older players or enterprising new players eager to capture new unsuspsecting customers, they shouldn't be there just as game boosters, they should really help, and when they can't help, refer, and follow up relentlessly.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Amy Fauna
Anti-Christ
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 23
01-19-2005 11:25
From: Prokofy Neva
Hi, Oz. No, the guy materialized above my head, almost standing on my head, and kind of jounced and bounced around like you do coming out of telehub, he didn't swoop in and land as if he were flying by. It suggests a teleport, but if you say it's broken, I take your word for it. The mode of his arrival isn't so important, except as a possible abuse of the LH system but it's hardly the worst one.

I'm for investigating this group, the Linden's policies, and its members and their personal behaviour. I've been surprised to have people IM me in game and describe some things about this system and this group that really, really bear investigation. I will go on looking into it and remain as impartial as I can, and I invite anyone to contact me in game with their experiences privately.

One fact that has emerged actually surprised me and will surprise or even annoy many. All you have to do to become a Live Helper is to have 30 days in the game without any suspensions/disciplinary actions. That's it! You might have been suspended 60 days ago for being a griefer -- all is forgiven, go help the masses. You might be only 31 days old and not know shit from Shinola, but, no matter, go forth and serve. It's astounding. 30 days without suspensions! Geez, I could go be a Live Helper and go walk a mile in those shoes, hmmm? I've never been suspended and I'm now almost 4 months old.

No, I wasn't on a private island, but one on the grid.
He did appear out of nowhere over my head like an angel.
He didn't insult my family but he questioned the core set of rights in SL, namely, the right to own land, put any price on it you wish, to buy and sell it for any price the market will bear. He did this, even while asserting his own right to "freedom of expression".
He tried to look good, and make it seem like he was even-tempered and getting the best of the argument by not responding to my challenges, but frankly, his action -- coming out of the blue to set me straight about pricing -- was COMPLETELY uncalled for.

It's inappropriate behaviour for one wearing the honourable uniform of the Live Help. And now, combined with other experiences and what has been told to me in game, I don't think so much of this honourable institution as I once did.

Here's my take on it so far. Apparently it's a new system. It may have its kinks. The Lindens face huge customer service problems with doubling of sub numbers this year. They can't pay wages and payroll tax for all those liaisons needed. So they have this age-old MMORPG wizard/boss/mentor thingie in their favor. They can flatter older players (well 30 days is all!) and make them feel special, and get them to work for free by awarding them this title. In exchange for holding somebody's hand while they count prims on their 512, these Live Helpers get a fantastic perch where they can capture the newbie audience, make friends and influence people, bring people to their clubs/shops/businesses/builds, and in general, make hay while the sun shines. It's nice work if you can get it : )

I think, however, in the long run, to prevent customer alienation and abuse of game perches like that, the Lindens need to impose more than a 30-day age limit. They're making changes in the game that harm some so they need to buy off certain classes of people and old players are among them. Maybe they want to help their old friends have these great new advertising perches, especially since they keep them out of the Ahern newbie area with their advertising. (I think that's ridiculous, by the way. I would have been happy to be greeted by somebody saying "buy my land" or "buy my hair" when I first landed instead of spending weeks finding my way to those things.) They need to train the LH better. AND they need to sprinkle more liberally throughout the system the paid Lindens, and these shouldn't just be exploited and underpaid telecommuters, they should be in-house staff who are tied up to the pulse of the management and can provide it with necessary feedback.

The key to enhancing this system is better screening, testing of knowledge, review of history (groups, etc.) and TRAINING. And supervision by Lindens. Finally, a system of triage and referral must be better instituted. No customer should be turned away with no answer, or told to just file a bug report, or told "But that's not true!" about his experience. The Live Helpers shouldn't be feted and cossetted older players or enterprising new players eager to capture new unsuspsecting customers, they shouldn't be there just as game boosters, they should really help, and when they can't help, refer, and follow up relentlessly.


will you SHUT UP ALREADY live help isnt MEANT TO BE PROFESSIONAL its meant to take some weight off the lindens backs. if you want something that live help cant tell ya, ask a god damn linden
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
01-19-2005 11:31
Well Amy.. since you are now the lesbian baron, I guess I hate you. You have created all the lesbians in the world (including the guy ones) and you have compelled me to pay your inflated prices for them.

I would create my own lesbians, but I spend 12 hours a day doing that in RL and when I get into SL I don't want to struggle to create more. Lesbians should be free and subsidized by the Lindens.

I demand my rightful lesbians!!!

I'm boycotting you until my lesbian quota is met.

Luv,

Surreal
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10