Live Help or Dead Disservice?

I haven't read every post here, but a few.

The conversation seems to be rather rude on all acounts. And if they came to you through some sort of using the LH teleport function, that is not what its for and shouldn't be used as such.

Some points though:

- LH is not restricted to long term members, there are many people of who I have never met or knew existed untill I saw them on LH answering questions or in the group list. So in no way is LH a "oldies" versus "everyone else". LH to my knowledge is open (or was not sure if sign ups are still going on) to anyone of any birth age if they're knowledgable. Is someone who is born on an older date going to have a better chance of "getting in" to LH? I don't think so, I think it would more depend on what they knew. In example, there are some questions I'd ask Torley before asking other users who have been around longer. So playing the Age card is not nice.

- Having the LH title on is a mixed thing. I think its best to be as nice as possible when having the LH title on, as it is a representation of everyone in the group to some people, but at the same time no one is required to be nice.

- LH *is* just regular users, and from that you can expect each one to react differently to things. I have heard of some accounts of LHers being rude, and have witnessed some more slightly rude answers, so I don't dissagree that it couldn't happen.

I think everything else thats been needed to be said has been said in the past or here.

That situation may have been rude or bad to you, and I don't completely dissagree or agree with it. LHers should be treated like everyone else and if you found the situation to be undesirable I hope you ARed it if you felt it nessisary.

Nobody likes to be grouped together with one person or for a whole group to be based on one persons actions.

I think exaggeration serves a purpose, and putting an incident like this under the magnifying glass is very helpful.

It illustrates and attitude, what is wrong at the core -- disrespect of customers.

Who talked about crimes against humanity? Sheesh, get a grip. There's a difference between a cossetted tekkie talking to somebody who owns land they're selling for $500 in a game, and people being massacred in Sudan. Sheesh.

You get to exercise your finely honed persecution complex and cast yourself in the role of a self styled martyr and freedom fighter battling the dark forces of tyranny, which you obviously enjoy.

it's not so much that i caught some subtle reference. it's more like my Incredible Bullshit Sensor (or shitdar) went off when i read that.

so far the most positive responses you've gotten are one person playing devil's advocate for you and one person saying they grudgingly agree with one of your points. you can take that to mean you're a lone prophet martyr taking arms against a sea of troubles but point is, everyone thinks you're a dork and wishes you'd shut up. you're just making yourself look bad.

main result from me reading this is i admire live help a lil bit more and i'm proud of that guy you talked to for not taking your bait and getting into a fight with you when you tore him a new one.

You've enlightened me on the issue of the selection criteria for LH.

It's worse than we knew.

Age alone would not be a criteria, but "knowledge". But...do they pass a test? Who assesses this knowledge? Just the guinea pig customers?

Playing the Age card isn't nice...but they can lord it over younger players and make comments like "huh, are you a joke?" from their vaunted position of...what...six months? 24 months? So?

* more applause *

I don't care. You are five percent of the players. Look at the other 95 percent. They are your customers. This is your world. It's just the Lindens servers. Get used to it. You'll be hearing more of it.

wow could you make less sense? why do you keep harping on customers? i don't have any customers. i don't think an off duty LH person has customers. i'ma guess 95% of sl players don't have customers. speaking of 95%.......the only reason you aren't hearing from the other 95% is because they know better than to try to wade through the stupid crap on the forums.

seriously though, what were you talking about?
is it mine or the Lindens'? what's it and will i be hearing more of it for any reason than because you don't know when to quit?

I'm not exactly sure how each person is picked, there was a post awhile back made by a Linden that if you want to go forum diving I'm sure you'll find, that outlined these.

You can also look here: http://secondlife.com/livehelp/
Which tells you somewhat of whats required to join.

But I do know that age alone is not a factor as I stated above, I've seen many users of whose birthdates were not what I consider "old" in LH.

As for the other paragraph, this seems to be a personal issue you have towards some users in LH, I suggest you take it up with them.

Again, if you have an issue with someone, AR them and/or speak with a Linden about the behavior.

Oz, this troubles me.

I don't know if the LH system has among its perks of office some kind of instant teleporter that enables you to teleport in on people as they play their game.

This guy arrived from the sky on mission.

He wasn't just flying by minding his own business, and happened to catch sight of a for-sale sign.

No, he flew directly to me, landed on my head, to tell me he thought my land price was a "joke" and to tell me I must be "laughing" if I thought I could charge that. He also vented himself of his ideas about freedom of expression.

Now, the price tag was NOT on this land. It was only said here in the forums. And it was contained within a notecard in a notecard giver box. I don't know if he took one. But this was a guy who came to put pressure on me, to tell me I was wrong, to tell me I wasn't playing the game right, to tell me that he was wiser and could set me straight.

But I'm here to tell you that this is an abuse of office. You can't do that to people, like you're God, parachuting into their game and telling them what's what. That's just plain creepy to use whatever vantagepoint the LH devices give you to hector like that.

The fact is, he was all wet. Higher prices are charged on islands of smaller size. Offers were already made at that price and higher. He didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. And he added that crap about "why don't they just buy a $195 private island and be done with it". Whereupon I tried to inform him. And as a plus, confronted him about his bad attitude and behaviour and then negrated him.

How long have Live Helpers or Dead Disservers been flying around in this game doing that to people?

The fact that a hundred Live Helpers rush to the defense of their club and their member without any consideration of the social contract implied by this role in society is so indicative of this game. But it can't go on being a tekkie geeky game like that. The metaverse is bigger than your tekkie geeky game with your arrogant attitudes about capitalism, the West, the free market, and busienss.

Geez, no wonder you only have 20,000 customers after 2 years.

Even dying TSO has more than that.

Live help has been around for what... a few months, maybe longer?

And *even* TSO? You are referring to the online version of one of the most popular computer game series in history I assume? Which has no 18+ restriction?

didn't look like too much pressure to me, but who knows, all I did was read the log you posted. 2 lines doesn't sound like much pressure to me. not to mention he only responded about his ability to speak his mind after you tiraded against him saying something *shrug*



Obviously the problem here is that you see some magic superbeing as "Live Helper" or "Mentor" or what-have-you when really it's just a volunteer service. Maybe it should have more screening, but honestly the fact it doesn't shouldn't come as much of a shock to you considering the experiences you purport to have had.



Actually, you didn't inform him, you ranted at him, and he tried to back away from an exploding cannon. And honestly, after reading post after post from you on these forums without saying anything, it seems to me that you are really good at just exploding away at minor issues.



And yet you're not making any judgement on Live Help, as you said before...



no, you're not making any rash generalizations about Live Help at all. Or about those of us who disagree with your opinion...

Prokof, if that chat is accurate (IF) you're right. And if you log an official complaint, that LH individ will get a talking to, I'm sure of it. LH, from what I know, is not intended to walk/port/fly up to people and express opinions unless asked to do so.

That is, if your chat is in context and accurate. If not, well then....well, then. Keep in mind they can, and will, pull the logs, if you complain.

Prokofy,

The only way the teleport feature can be used is if you initiate a live help session - and it can only be initiated within the first few minutes of the conversation, otherwise the ability expires. Way to pull a conspiracy out of thin air! Quite the fan of making tempests in your little teapot aren't you? You seem so hell bent on treating SL like it is TSO, that Linden Lab is Maxis/EA - why not go back to TSO, honestly? At least your consipiracy theories would ring true there.

so did he teleport or fly? ever thought he might have seen a green dot on the map and flown to it.

and did it a whale of alot more politely than you treated him. frankly he sounds like everyone i've ever met in sl while you sound like a bitter pompous ass.

so there were two different ways he could have known the price? spooky that he knew it then isn't it?

you're a glass-is-half-empty kinda guy aren't you? he made 10 statements and you made 25. only two of his could possibly be construed as even mildly impolite. and he didn't neg rate anyone.

so much for the ol' freedom of expression. attention players: never express an opinion in a mildly cheeky manner. bottle up your opinions so that no one will interpret them as personal attacks.

but of course you're not denigrating or stereotyping LH people (read the first paragraph).

well there's only been 84 posts so far and most of them are you.

again with the customers!

man you are plain old ill. some guy mildly disagreed with you on something and you've spent all evening showing your ass trying to get sympathy. and if you think "i'm not ill, it's everyone else who's ill!" well, that's the definition of ill my friend. go read a book or take a walk. all this posting's bad for your mental health.

Oh, brother!

Ya know, Proko, I was in TSO beta for a while. I left because it had the worst customer service, and the absolute worst standard of social behavior, that I had ever experienced. I think I met you there.

I cant believe I read this whole thread. I think I was wondering if you'd eventually "get it." Apparently not.

The short version is this: you are a silly, self-centered, paranoid little slug.

Long version: Live Helpers are just people who thought they could make life a bit easier for fellow players. I have NO idea what special title, power, status, or training you keep imagining. It just ain't so. You ask if you can participate, the Lindens make a choice, and you get to turn on a Group Title and get bombarded by IMs that range from easy to embarrassingly over your head. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. No company car, no special powers, no key to the executive washroom, nothing at all to lord over anyone.

I'm beginning to suspect that you have personal issues with groups that you aren't part of. Did you apply, and now feel rejected because you weren't accepted? Did you get laughed at by a member of the Future Farmers when you were younger? Too short for the Army? Flunked out of law school? Found out that you have to pass a test to be a private detective?

What is your problem?

Never mind. I don't want to know. Just stop whining about how insulted the mean man-in-uniform made you by saying you had crappy land. After listening to you wank so consistently here, I am prepared to conclude he was right - and I've never SEEN your land.

Maybe this is what your problem is: I'm more inclined to believe someone who tried (well OR poorly) to help others than someone who clearly has nothing but his own view of himself as his sole concern.

Get over yourself. Or stop by my place... the Damage is always On.

Actually it's been a few days.

I doubt that is what would happen for an aloof comment. The person would report it to the the cop's supervisor, possibly call a local news channel where it might get aired. Even it it was aired it wouldn't become a community outrage issue. The cop would probably be reprimanded. Reprimanded. Maybe a formal warning put in his file. It's obvious, but it should probably be noted that a cop in RL is entrusted with quite a bit more responsiblity and authority than a Live Helper. The Live Help folks have no policing powers. They can aid you to the extent of their knowledge. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. What should happen as a result? What do you want to happen? A formal admonition in front of the masses performed by Phillip?

So he violated your trust bond. Report him. Let the system work. If it does not perform to your satisfaction, there are many methods of contacting LL available to you, including e-mailing Phillip. If you still can't resolve it, I don't know what to tell you other than to point out that there is one constant throughout all of these "YOU KICKED MY DOG!" threads, and that is your refusal to accept SL as a community. It is not this ring chart you envision.
Now you are changing his words. Paraphrasing. Bad news. What he actually said (if your posting of his words are intact) was not even deserving of the immediate tongue lashing you gave him, let alone another weather-worn, nonexistent caste system lamenting thread.
Ahhh. I see. You view being a Live Helper as "status". While it's apparently true some Live Helpers can be smug and may infact view it as "status", it's highly doubtful that this is a pervasive condition. Now, you could have simply spotted a bad apple for LL, and gone on with your SL content that you had exposed a person that was not in it for the right reasons. That wouldn't be noisy enough though right? Because there's a war to wage. Against the Feted Inner Core. They have to be exposed and toppled.

More labels and insults. Damn you sure hurl a lot of shit around when one person insults you don't you? If you want professionals contact LL. When will you feel better? So far he is an asshole and a fucktard, care to add some more? I mean, hell, he said your land was too high priced, he should be castigated in public, perhaps flogged, or maybe drawn and quartered and hung from a bridge. Then the entire Live Help system should be reworked, because Prokofy wishes to purge it of the First Dynasty Cult.
He is one person. Are you projecting that onto the rest of us again? Secrets? Gatekeeper? My word, you do have a flair for the dramatic. They are just players Prokofy. Just as in any organization, there are bound to be bad seeds. Hopefully proportionately less within the Live Help Group. There are no "secrets". One of them may know a lot about scripting, another may only know about texturing or be really good with the debug menu. They are there to complement the in game help system. It wasn't a part of SL for most of SL's existence and I am sure it will grow and improve. One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch girl.
Yet more dramatization. More name calling. More profanities. Did you win yet?

"Vaunted"? Who is vaunting it? You act like people are walking around whispering, "Oh look! There's a Live Helper!" I think you're the one perceiving it as "vaunted". Perception and how we react to it define us to a great extent. I think you are misperceiving quite a lot of things, and consequently defining yourself as hyper-sensationalist and extremely thin skinned.

Ever get the feeling that if you gave Prokofy Neva and Nolan Nash their own forum, they'd write the Lengthy Encyclopedia of Second Life Issues, in less than 36 hours?

Conversely, ever get the feeling that Prokofy Neva and Nolan Nash are twins-separated-at-birth, one with an obsessive complex, and the other with a ruthless will?

~yet another production of The Days of Your Second Life~

Ever get the feeling that a new player is oddly familiar, and as they post more and more, they make you realize through their own missteps that they are in fact an alt?

ah, but which is which?

Cristiano, I'm not paranoid and don't have a conspiracy complex. I didn't raise the issue of the magic teleporter for Live Help, somebody else did. I didn't even think there WAS such a thing. I'm merely reporting that the guy landed on my head and then fell in my lap so I saw his title hovering over me -- very weird. I don't know why he'd use such a device when I did not, rpt NOT, summon him or anyone.

Who knows? Maybe he just flew by and happened to fall on my head. It happens. Maybe he didn't teleport. It's not material. The point is, he feels he's qualified to be a Live Helper, and they feel they can have him in the group, but he's a fucktard IMHO.

Did I "tear him a second one" as somebody said on here? Of course I tore him a second one. Live Helpers don't get to do that, especially when on duty. It's inconsiderate. And even if he wasn't a Live Helper, I don't care who he is, he doesn't get to do that without me pushing back. And push back I do. I know that is stunning behavior for the wagons-circled set. They've never seen anybody push back like this. It seems "ill". But get used to it. It's a reality. You don't come on to someone's land, with that kind of ignorant arrogant attitude, and try to set them straight. It's not just your game. It's a bigger game than that.

Run to the Lindens? Why? I want Lindens to make their servers work, full stop. That's all I ask of them. Make their servers work, freshen them up, keep the FPS higher than it is, and fix that site of it. I already have ample tools to deal with player grievances. I can push back when some fucktard comes up to me and tells me some wankish crap that he thinks I charge too much for my land. Geez, tell it to the Lindens! They take that much for THEIR land ROFLMAO! And I use the negrate. For good measure, I post the record to the forums. All plenty of tools for responses at different levels. To be sure, they are inadequate tools, but Abuse-Reporting something is just not in my repetoire, not effective, and not the wave of the future. Players have to instill some unwritten, universally understood code of conduct.

Everybody says "I get to do what I want on my land and fuck you." I point out that might have its limits. A defiling of the images of 9/11; a giant glowing tower to force a land sale -- these might be those limits and some stepped right up to the plate and said "that deserves a negrate about one or the other or both of those builds". In fact, people do think at some level there are limits to the "I get to do what I want on my land and fuck you."

And...those limits are actually in the tiny provincial minds of this tiny village where all the new people are "from away". As soon as someone stands up with this new God-given, Linden-right of saying "I get to do what I want on my land and fuck you" and says it *to a Live Helper who is inappropriately interfering* why, all bets are off, everyone hasten to genuflect to the Life Help Gods, everyone back off, because you don't get to do what you want on your land when you have *gasp* made a Live Helper think you charged too much.

Hypocrites.

Ever get the feeling you're listening to someone you kn... I mean Andy Rooney?

Are you going to keep following me around? Let me know ok? I can feed you some material. I am sure you will like that. I can throw the old new dog a bone.

Nolan, tell them, I'm not your alt. I don't ever use expressions like KICKED THE DOG and I don't even know what language that is in the quote in your siggie.

Da poshli vy vse na khui.

I just have to say that I met Prokofy Neva IW a few days ago and he was very nice and has what seemed to me to be good intentions for SL. I think you all are being to hard on him.

MJ,

I love ya darlin, but we will have to agree to disagree. We have not pushed back nearly enough against this pompous, misguided windbag.