No kids in the real SL, EVER!

The clarification of the language needs to be in the TOS.

Thanks Merwan I agree

Pathfinder, didn't I read that you're working with communications between LL and the SL community?

Thank you OH so much for your patronizing words. I can rest ever so easily now that LL communications is in such good hands.

Just a suggestion though, next time try * between your words. That'll give it a little more oomph.

-Claire

You mean clarify this thing?



Hrmm... Ok I will see what I can do.



There. The wording has all been changed to clarify.

apparently so!

My question here, which I have not heard asked or answered, is if there is a Teen Grid, will there be some kind of submission process on content that has to go through a verification process? How will you ensure that a 13 year old will not be able to make items that are adult in nature, or upload some really XXX porn textures and the like?

-Edited cause I hit save changes before reading over it, cause my boss walked in the cubicle.

/3/4f/30128/1.html

From what was said in the Town Hall Meeting last December, it appears that there isn't a submission process *prior* to content being created -- which offhand I could see as being untenable. From what was said, it seems they will monitor content for PGness in much the same way we are in PG areas.

Hi Claire,

I wasn't trying to sound patronizing, and I apologize if I came across that way to you or anyone else.

I was trying to make it crystal-clear that the TeenGrid is separate from the Public Grid. I guess my attempt at being a bit facetious at the wording didn't come out the way I had hoped. Point taken.

Since we first started talking about the Teen Grid last December, we've put a good deal more thought into everything from the registration process to safety procedures and education to activities and discipline. Rather than argue about what we said last December, let's start with a fresh slate.

I realize that you don't have full information, but that's because we're still getting ready to start the test. The TOS change was made so that we'd have that part done before the registration changes and teens start queuing to enter.

I'll explain the ins and outs of the teen version of SL and schedule a town hall meeting so everyone will have a chance to ask questions, some time in the next two weeks.

Cool. I wonder if they have a solution for the parents who feel they shouldn't be excluded from their children's activities versus those who merely say they are parents who feel they shouldn't be excluded from their children's activities.

My question is this.

Lets say a 17 year old joins the teen grid along with his good friend. They are doing pretty much what we do except on a PG version of SL. They are forming groups, they are collaboratively working together on projects, etc...

What happens when one of them turns 18? Is LL going to track all of their birthdays?

Is he booted off the teen grid and copied over into the adult grid where he doesn't know anyone? What about his group mates that were left behind on the project? What about his RL friend who's birthday is still 7 months away, they can no longer play SL together. Is this fair?

Or does he have the option of staying on the teen grid even if he is over 18? If that is the case, the wording of the new TOS is not correct, as it does not allow for this behavior.

Lets say this 17 year old owns land on the teen grid, will his land come with him if he is forced to transfer over? Where will it go? Will new sims come online for displaced ex-teenagers? How will that be implemented? Is his land just "released" back into the teen grid and he has to start all over in the adult version of SL ? What about this ex-teenagers builds, will they transfer over?

In Summary:

How will it be handled when they exist on the teen grid and turn 18?

Will they have the option of staying on the teen grid? If so, for how long?

If they are rolled over into the adult version of SL, what about their friends, builds, land, groups, projects that existed on the teen grid?

Jessica

Included with that:

"PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not allow ADULTS THAT ACT LIKE MINORS in the real SL world for that matter. They are just as destructive (if not more) than any punk kid.

Ive met kids in sims that act far more maturely than many grown adults. It all comes down to the individuals personality and upbringing, not soo much their age. most of them come here for the same reason we grownups do... they come here to have a good time. The only reasons I can agree with what is said is because of predators... damn predators.
Another thing, most of those kids can script and learn the language in half the time. Its just not right to push these kids away solely because of there age. There are PG areas. Use them. Its this very attitude that drives our kids to the streets. Let them in and teach them the cool things we have learned. Ive even had the pleasure of meeting SL moms that reach out to youths with good advice. Kids that otherwise would be out in the street smoking their brains out or in their ignorace, doing dangerous things for kicks (im sure whe've all seen the type). Instead why not give them a chance and apply the same rule used on adults... "if you mess up, you get banned". that simple.

-Nuc

Claire, it was said at least twice by other Lindens in this thread. maybe that's why he said it that way. It sounds more lke exasperation than patronization to me. be happy, they don't respond to many people directly.

I don't know if you've read the entire thread or not, but here is something I posted a page or two back:

It's highly likely that some kids can drive more maturely than some adults, maybe we should just give them licenses? Can you imagine if because some kids drive better than some adults we suddenly opened the roads to people under the legal driving age? Same goes for gambling, drinking and any other mature things. Should we abolish all those laws because "some" kids are more mature than some adults with respect to those areas?

There are idiot adults, but you know what, if they break laws, THEY are responsible, not their parents or other adults (Linden Lab in this case). Maybe we should just start throwing kids in regular federal prisons for crimes commited while underage? Would that be a fair trade off?

I can't find the post right now, but at one time, Robin addressed this. Yes they will keep track of their birthdays, and yes they will have to leave the teen grid when they turn 18.

Edit to add: One of my main concerns is how they will verify age of a minor. Most have no ID cards. Also, how will they verify that the "teen" is in fact not an adult posing as a teen?

honestly wouldnt it be simpler to make stuffs like this : Add a new sim catregorie, lets say T like teens

Adults have access to PG and M
teens have access to T and PG

how hard is that?

and dont talk me about imaginary predators -_- the only predators are ppl that think too much of the safty of the others and even if there is "so called" predators , can you tell me what they can make to the child? troughe a screen and 1000Kilometers of cables and various transmitters?

its curious in my city kids and adults are going in the same streets and the same bus but kids are kept out of the pubs as we are kept out of the schools

for me it sound so simple... internet is even more dangerous for Kids than SL so if you have internet you are already leading your kid to a potential danger, sl is cheesecake compared to all that

Excellent!

Apology accepted Pathfinder thank you for that
and
Robin a townhall Woot!

That will help a great deal

Cat

I just want to mention that I am strongly against allowing kids into the main grid. It always ends up that the people I see who cause trouble or do something horribly destructive, rude, or offensive turn out to be kids who can't tell right from wrong. I wouldn't want to have T or G-rated sims on the main grid because those of us that are here now will be flooding the mature regions. I'd like the younger people to go and ruin their own grid, not ours.

I also should mention I think there are too many complications with bringing in teens in the first place, but I know it has to happen to stop kids from getting into the main grid. With Second Life, the interaction we have with other memers is phenominal and I personally end up spending a lot of time working with people and talking and getting to know who they are in real life. I wouldn't want a situation to arise because some pedophile finds out the identity of a kid on the main grid, arranges a meeting, and have things go horribly wrong. With the teen grid though, it's so much easier to stop that situation from happening isolating children from adults and getting adults out of the teen grid.

Agreed, this would probably be the best way of going about doing this. Keep the Adults and Teens seperated. However, if there is some shord of Adult mentors that go to the Teen grid, please make sure that all the chat is monitored, and no exchanging of out-of-world communication information.

Robin indicated that only Liaisons will be allowed into the teen grid (besides teens of course). I assume they will be hiring a lot more liaisons to take care of the grid. Since the Lindens don't usually meet the mentors or any other resident, I doubt they will allow residents into the teen grid.

I was realy upset about all of this talk of the tos and the kiddie grid yesterday.

However...

This morning however I remembered something else that was discussed by Robin way back when they first started mentioning the kiddie grid.

Robin had mentioned that there might be an island where everyone from the main grid could place items for sale etc. The Lindens would then go threw it and move it to the teen grid for the kiddies to buy. I think that would be a positive thing for us folks. Something to think about.

Robin also said yesterday that we are clearing the slate and starting this discussion over. So my question is; Is this something that is still being considered or not?

Would be a nice boost to those selling sl goods in world.

Cat

huh, ive met plenty of kids in SL already. watch out they're invading already and you dont know it!!!

well we dont want scary old perverts getting into the kid SL version, either. (which will probably happen) :x

Bloddy ell! You're all way behind! There's gonna be a whole seperate grid, and Char Linden is going to be one of the main supervisors! It was all anounced ages ago! And the comment about Disney... Teenagers are a lot younger than you think. SL is just like the web- you'll find mature content if you go looking for it, but, every now and again, you get a dodgy pop-up. If a teenager wants mature content, they'll find better places to look rather than SL. As a teenager, i was always on MUDs. If i didn't act maturely, i'd get beaten up. It also helped my grammar a lot. But then again, i don't have trust in the common man, so the common teenager is even worse And i agree about no teens in our grid, but the plan is for a seperate grid.

I'm not about to read all 35 pages in the thread, so I don't know if minors entering the game is a complete given or not (and if/when it does happen, if they will be allowed to the main grid), and although I'm sure my point of view has been expressed before, I wanted to drop my $0.02 anyway.

I've been involved in some form of electronic multi-user entertainment for more than a decade, whether it be as a MUD developer, chatroom member, or paying subscriber to a given MMORPG.

It is my great experience that the following are true:

1). For their own well being, minors do not belong anywhere near the content found in SL. Parents, in general, cannot monitor the activities of their children closely enough to keep them from this content. (Yes, I am a parent -- 4 children in the house -- and I am just as guilty of this as anyone. If you disagree with me, I apologize for your delusion.)

2). Minors have ruined the spirit of any online multiplayer game I have played, and I would expect no less of them here.

3). I think I speak for most parents here when I say that if I wanted to contend with all the responsibility and nuances of children pervading my space, I'd turn SL off and wander back into the living room. This is supposed to be an ESCAPE from the "First Life" -- not a re-creation of it.

Being in the business of software development, I understand the real world imperatives that drive the powers that be to make the decisions they do, but please try to remember the ideas behind the creation of SL in the first place. Many have sold their souls for the almighty dollar, and ALL regretted the aftermath.