Is Religion allowed in School?

Actually, it's closer to 90% - 95% if my memory serves me correctly.

Public schools teach things that are completely unproven as if it's truth. Religion does the same. For example, as has been noted before, the idea life came from non-living matter is a faith because it relies on opinions based on a belief system.

When it's taught as a proven truth to impressionable minds, it becomes a dogma. This dogma is taught in a way to suggest life has no creator. That is anti-God due to a competing faith (the faith in life originating from non-living matter). If schools teach anything about God, it's "God is a myth". Some people in this thread applaud that belief.

It may b true schools don't tell students there is no God directly. They infere it with their teachings.

If we were to teach kids both sides of the issue, some of them might agree with me, and that would be unacceptable to those who loath the notion of a creator.

Public schools do not teach things that are completely unproven. You just refuse to accept any of the proof because it contradicts what you want to believe.

Your "belief" that atheisism is a religion is irrelevant.
Atheism by definition is a default position.

Non-belief in something isnt an act of faith. It is simply a non-belief.

There are far more than 2 sides to this issue. I would hazard to say there is a side to this issue for each and every human being that ever lived.

On a side note, I dont loathe the notion of a creator anymore than I might loathe the notion of the tooth fairy or leprechauns.

Belief there is no God is an act of faith, because it can't be proven false. To say one lacks faith in God isn't the same as saying one believes there is no God. One is stating a lack of belief, the other is stating a belief.

It does not have to be proven false. The burden of proof is on you. Thats the way it works, kiddo.

Hm. Is non-belief in alien abductions an act of faith?

No, it's not how it works. If you deny the existance of something that you can't see, you are talking a leap of faith stating it doesn't exist.

If I suggest something exiists for which I have no physical evidence, then I take a leap of faith.

If I say "I can't see it or verify it's existence I will refuse to believe it possibly could exist" I would be taking a leap of faith.

If you were to say "I don't accept what I can't see or verify, then you would be taking a leap of faith everything must be physically verifiable to exist.

The correct scientific approach would be to say "we can't verify it's existence yet, and it may not exist, but we have no way to falisify it".

That's why science generally stays away from the topic of God.

Exactly. Well put, Roc.



Faith is the domain of religion. Its even an admirable quality to religion, but it has nothing to do with that which is provable or not provable --hence it is faith.

Believe all you wish to, just dont force your belief on me or my children. THAT is the position of those who wish to maintain seperation between church and state.

Thats it. Im jumping off this merry-go-round.

Peace out.

A position I hold very dearly. However, one problem I do have is actually in the reverse. Those who are so ardent in the separation that they believe their right to not partipate in a particular form of religion means no one should be able to, by choice. For example, teammates who want to say a prayer together before a game should be allowed to do so. Those who do not want to should not be forced to, however, their desire to not want to also should not force the inability for anyone to do so if they so choose.

I agree. But I think this rarely happens, and if it does is certainly not what the framers of our Constitution had in mind.

I have no problems with members of a school sports team getting together and praying.
I DO have a problem with the coach ordering all team members to pray.

We are in agreement on this, though from what I have read over time, it goes on more than you think (students being prevented from praying, having a bible study club, etc) under the auspices of separation of church and state. I 100% agree it is wrong for anyone to be forced to participate (as in your coach analogy).

On this we can all agree, no one should be forced to pray or worship God, or believe anything at all. Nothing in this thread suggests otherwise, as far as I know.

Having grown up as a religious Jewish kid in a 90% Catholic community in the 1960s, I can tell you honestly, I never had a problem saying my prayers before lunch, eating matzoh during passover, or even making Hanukah decorations instead of Christmas decorations.

This is as it should be, Religion wasn't taught in public school, but individual beliefs were respected. I have never heard of an intelligent liberal educator ever stating otherwise.

That was back then. Today even Christmas is being attacked by the fringe left. They say it's forcing religion on kids, which somehow equates to the government establishing a state sponsored religion, like the Church of England.

link? And please provide for me a leftwing site attacking Christmas --NOT a rightwing site claiming that the left attacks Christmas.

http://atheism.about.com/od/religioussymbolsholidays/

Also...

Florey v. Sioux Falls School District (1980)
Roger Florey, an atheist, filed suit against a local school district's holiday programs, claiming that singing of religious carols during Christmas concerts, like "Silent Night" and "O Come All Ye Faithful," were a violation of the separation of church and state.

Metzl v. Leininger (1995)
Andrea Metzl, an Illinois public school teacher, filed a lawsuit to prevent the state of Illinois from (among other things) using of public funds derived from taxes that she paid to pay teachers for the Good Friday holiday.

Ganulin v. United States (1999)
Is it constitutional for the United States government to recognize Christmas as an official paid holiday? Richard Ganulin, an atheist lawyer, argued that it isn't and filed suit, but a U.S. District Court ruled against him.

Koenick v. Felton (1999)
Judith M. Koenick, a former public school teacher, filed suit against the Board of Education of Montgomery County, Maryland, challenging the constitutionality of a Maryland statute providing for public school holidays on the Friday before Easter through the Monday following.

http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/indexes/bldec_HolidayIndex.htm

If you need more, I found thousands of links by seaching google.

These are all either threads talking about left wing assault on Christmas, or individuals taking action as is there right.

What I asked for is a leftwing website attacking Christmas.

BTW I could post thousands of RW websites attacking Halloween, so I'm not sure I really get your point anyway.

Sure you could resist. You just didn't want to. Don't lie about your feelings. May as well stand up for what you think. It won't make many of us like you any less than we already do.

That's NOT the only reason people homeschool. As a matter of fact, I founded a homeschool group that had over 250 families in it. And it was open to all homeschoolers. We had diverse cultures, lifestyles, and beliefs. Only two families in that group chose to homeschool to be able to involve Christian Religion in their curriculum. At least 35 of those families chose to homeschool because the public schools had *too much* Christian Doctrine in their routines. The rest homeschooled for a variety of other reasons, including among those reasons the fact that Goverment Schools don't do well enough at teaching individual thinking, and many of the government schools just plain suck.

I would be interested to see the poll of those 250 people, which questions were asked, and the methodology of the poll.

Most schools now just call it a "moment of silence". That way those who want to pray can, but those who do not, can do whatever they wish.

Here is a great page to understand what is and is not allowed in the public schools with regard to religion: http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/08-1995/religion.html

From: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION - THE SECRETARY

There was no poll. I was the leader of the group, and got to know each family individually. The "why do you homeschool" discussion was always one of the first things learned.

If you read Pendari's post, it's not a poll. There'd be no set list of questions asked and no methodology of a poll. I'm sure that since you take so many things on faith, you could in this instance take it on faith that the founder of a homeschooling group might know something about the composition of said group.