Is Religion allowed in School?

snarky

Ha ha! You are killing me tonight.

I also really loved "bat-squeezing insane". I tried to find "bat squeezing" on Google Images but came up empty handed.

~Ulrika~

I got the expression "bat-squeeze insane" from my favorite radio talkshow host.

Mike Malloy on Air America!

mikemalloy.com

Gosh! You think!?!

I agree! Now if only parents had more time to help kids with their homework too!

Now lets take away time teachers have from teaching them the alphabet and teach them the alpha and omega. That's a constructive use of their limited time. I'm sure our kids will be that much better off knowing less about everything else because they have to make time to learn about some cult's mythology. Never you mind, Parents, we won't let you pick which mythologies either, we're taking that right away from you too.

Oh really? That must be why Jefferson, the primary author of the establishment clause, wrote the following...

"The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."

Um, Chip, that is not in the constitution...

Umm, Kurgan, it was written by the primary author of the establisment clause describing what he meant by the establishment clause. Duh?

I'm just glad I can now force my local school board to teach KevnKleinenism amidst all that mundane reading, riting, and rithmetic. Too bad I have to now invent KevnKlinenism especially since I only know that it involves a can of beans, a big pile of peyote, and a trepanation tool.

My big question is if this would be incompatible with the mandatory drug awareness programs for first graders ("yes kids, this is how you can tell that mom is hungover from the country club soiree last night and should not be asked about how babies are made this morning" that is also present in my local middle class, quiet, little, podunk, white bread, mountain town where the jesus fish outnumber the jerry bear car stickers by a factor of about 1000:0.

How did Emo Philips describe his home town? Ummm.... last night... we had a blackout in our town... but..... the cops came along.... and made.... him get back in his car. Sorta like that without the blackouts. And no, I didn't exactly choose to settle here, and yes, some of the locals prolly think I'm the way by which god tests them by my mere existence, tyvm.

Brother Chip,

Read the pertainate part again... The legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"

Please note the legislature is the one being told what is their restrictions. It has nothing to do with state and local governments. The wall he spoke of is the wall keeping congress out of what people believe and do. The wall is one way. The constitution isn't meant to tell people what is ok or not. Education has historically been left to the local governments. Only recently has the Federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong constitutionally. The constitution tells congress what congress is NOT allowed to do. The first amendment to the constitution is clearly directed at Congress and not the states.

Also, there were many authors to the constitution. Each has differing opinions, but only what is in the constitution is considered constitutional law, not their prior writings. The federalist papers give insight, but aren't the constitution.

btw, if a post appears to be silly or not seeking to further the discussion I'll ignore it. So as to not feed trolling.

Theists turn to the Bible for answers about right and wrong, about questions of "what should we do" or "how should we act".

In a similar manner, Statists turn to the principal documents of their secular government worshipping religion, statism.

In this thread we see a bunch of United States nationlist Statists turning to their holy document, the Constitution, and the opinions of the Statist apostles, the founding fathers.

The reason why Statists want to keep other religions out of schools is because they don't want anything to challenge the worship of the State.

United States worshipping Statists want the Flag to be the holiest symbol in the child indocrination centers, they want the anthem to be the only hymn and the pledge of allegiance to be the only prayer.

Sister Loretta,

Wow, for a troll, you read and argue about as well as a.... umm troll.

There's a insignificant bit of the constitution that says:This was ratified in 1868, which, as we know was about one fourtieth of the age of the earth ago, so no spring chicken is that. I'll let you hunt around for exactly where that so-called "equal protection clause" is in the Constitution in the hopes that you might learn something in the process; there will be a quiz and this will be on it.

You think I was being silly about KevnKleinenism? Pftt! I've already written the first three books. The pertinent part here is drawn from (Absurdities 3:14-16):Let me tell you, pox ain't no fun.

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Read it again, show me what in that quote suggests children shouldn't be taught religion in school. What law would a state be enforcing that would allow children the right to learn world religions? Actually, the state is enforcing a law abridging the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States by denying them the right to learn religions in a state mandated education system.

Kevn, me old mate. Has it occurred to you that you bestride the last coupla days off-topic postings like a colossus ? I have tried, but I just can't keep up.

How does it feel? Is it lonely at the top ? God told me to keep on posting my trash, but I am weak and disobedient. You, clearly, are made of sterner stuff.

Don't try to read anything into this. Ignore me. I'm just burbling.

I fear the last two days have addled my brain.

My advice ? Find the firm ground, my lad. Stand on that.
Decline to be beckoned over to where it is gives beneath your weight. You found rock, briefly, at one point, Kevn. But, alas, relinquished it.

And colossi, you know, are pretty damn heavy.

I'll see your 14th amendment and raise you a "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". However, I have no categorical syllogisms to spare, so I must fold.

Oh, you are a tricky one, you made me divulge the location of the equal protection clause. Damnit!

Its those of us who are neither statists nor theists who are the most frightened.

I'm goin' sailin' and contemplate reality

This grammatically unique reply appears to have to have no relation with what it should be replying to -- just like all of Kevn's posts.

~Ulrika~

Lets go over the demographics again. 93-97% of the U.S. are educated on at least 1 major religion. Far less than that are fully literate. Now obviously there is not a lot of reading going on in the education of religion. Thus taking away school time from booklearning for non-booklearning detracts from literacy.

I could start demanding organized religions teach people proper literacy instead of oration I suppose.

In a way, I'm getting more and more convinced that both a Religion and a Politics class should be available on an upper school level.

Perhaps as an elective.

Or maybe combine the two, call the class "Isms" and teach them all - everything from Aristotelianism to Zoroastrianism.

It wouldn't harm the kiddies any more than say, the usual 'student government' participation.

Insofar as they would be learning about, rather than inflicting, various forms of government and belief systems upon each other.

How else will future generations learn how to win at forums?



And now for something completely differetnt.

Desmond's Link of the Day: Evo Devo!

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/articles/051024crbo_books1

My point wasn't that teachers should teach religion instead of reading, it was that one really has nothing to do with the other. Our kids aren't illiterate because they're being taught religion, they're illiterate because they are not receiving a consistant message from school and home as to it's importance.

I went through a christian school system and I consider myself to be very literate and love to read, but my parents enforced 20 minutes a night of reading time from the time I was 6 on...soon they didn't have to enforce it because I enjoyed it and would read for hours instead of minutes. My school did teach proper literacy, and we read our bible lessons instead of repeating them. I suppose it depends on the denomination how the religious beliefs are taught and if they promote literacy.

I'm all for teaching religion in school, as long as they do away with music classes both during the day and extracurricularly.

~Ulrika~

No. Without band members the drama students wouldn't have anyone to pick on.

And without drama students, how would anyone learn about sexual reproduction?

Our kids may not be illiterate due to religion, but they do lack critical thinking skills and that is a direct result of being taught religion. In order to teach faith, critical thinking must be discouraged. It's akin to teaching them to close their eyes before they cross the street instead of looking both ways. Religion is already taught in public schools, in social studies and history classes, where it belongs. If people don't think that's sufficient then I can only assume they want kids to be taught to practice relgion, not simply learn about it. They already do.

HEY!!

Knock off teasing the drama students!!

I took 12 years of acting classes in and out of school.