SL Forums: Whose Culture is it Anyway?

Why would they coco?

Why would they intervene? Thus far I have simply disagreed with you and asked for you to back up what your saying.

All personal attacks have come squarely from you against me, against enebran, against others.

So because nothing has been said thus far, does this mean you get preferred treatment by the resmods?

As already demonstrated, your agreement is not a pre-requisite to your losing.

So I go off for dinner and all hell breaks loose? You all are so going to get this thread locked.

Sounds vaguely incestuous. At least we're all in good company.

Maybe this part should be a poll

And to go back to the topic
from the OP:


So far we have people chiming in about what the mores are where they live and what their personal code of ethics is etc. All well and good, and somewhat on the topic but not exactly.

So far only one person seems to have said what cultural mores we should follow and clearly this person's mores involve hypocricy and personal attacks although they say otherwise....

So my next question is what is the more important more?

Yikes. I can't keep track of these sudden changes of direction. Use a turn signal FFS.

I can only assume that the above is your rationalization for why you're not using the Ignore option for a situation you find so distasteful and disturbing. Therefore, I have to conclude that you like it or you would disengage.

I'm not saying you have to disengage, but do stop pretending that you hate it. You have 100% of the power to never see anything Siggy (or Enabran) posts again.

Well as much as this thread has gone down an entertaining alley. I think the main topic is exhausted for tonight, and I have a movie to go watch.

I hope people will continue to respond to the issue so I will have fun reading and responding at work tomorrow.

Night all

I said they should follow my mores!
I am ok with hypocrisy, as long as its mine. I don't like personall attacks much, thoughnthyey are part of the oh so amusing forum show. And really I say fuck because it seems silly as hell to say frick or freakin. I am zen buddhist who does not accept the existence of a transcendent divine entity, so I say things like God damn, and Jesus H Christ and assorted variations on a theme. I think individuals are responsible for themselves and that moral eduaction begins and ends at home. The decision to say fuck is like the decision to lie..its a choice. Our kids see the president lying all the time, and yet we do not ban him from the airwaves as an obscentity.

Michael Moore spouts political lies as truth in entertainment, and yet we don't ban his morally repugnant manipulations.

So if people want to say fuck in the forums. So be it. We could do with less policing of "fuck", and more policing of "fuck you."

But where would be the drama in that..

I honestly think I should be on TV like Dr Phil.

In a single thread I've totally turned Coco's life around!


Imagine the intro to that?

"Hey folks I'm Dr Siggy! I'm gonna solve all your problems for you by telling you ..." (cups hand to ear)

Audience yelling : "STOP BEING A FUCKING TARD!"

"Thats right! - now we have some folks today that are in more shit than Flash Gordon! so lets get on with it.. right after these messages!"

OMG... I just got my sig line for this month.

I felt compelled to respond to the above. What people want to ban is the form, not the reality. In many ways this reflects American mass culture where appearance is everything, content unimportant. Put a slick label on shit and you can sell millions. Which is lying if you think about it.

I rather someone sincerely tell me fuck off than bullshit me. I bet I'm not alone.

Whose cultural mores do you think we should follow?

Since we are not all from the same culture, there is no clear cut answer to this. The best that can be done is to apply those morals which are pretty much standardized from each culture. The main one being, imo, treat others as you would have them treat you. If you want to be treated like crap, then treat others that way and I'm sure you'll find they will treat you in kind. Personally, I do get along with others from different cultures quite well. The key to this is they have to be willing to get along with me.

Can we extend a tolerance to all language provided it is not used as a personal attack? Do we have a responsiblity to control our own world using the Ignore key, rather than try to make other people conform to our prejudices?

I see no reason not to extend tolerance to any words used as long as they are not used in the context of a personal attack or an attack on race, religion, creed, etc. Personally, I have no need of using a crutch like the iggy button. I can ignore anyone's post quite easily. It is simply a matter of making the decision to not answer. If you put everyone who offends you on ignore, then you may be excluding yourself from something that may help you to change your POV on something. We can learn from those we don't like. On the other hand, if someone is saying crap about me, I have the right to know what is being said and the right to decide if I want to reply or not or sit here and laugh at thier utter stupidity. We each have the responsibilty of controlling ourselves. If someone has to use a crutch like ignore then by all means do so, but, before you do, you should think long and hard about your reason(s) for doing so and ask youself why you feel you need to use a crutch.

What do you think a reasonable definition would be?

Definition of what? Vulgar language? Tolerance? Cultural mores? Please be specific.



What euphamisms would you find acceptable? Example: f*ck Are words from other cultures which don't carry the same shock value for some Americans and don't bother the source culture OK? Example: bugger.

Just don't call me c*nt. I'll rip your f*cking throat out if you do. B*tch is acceptable only from friends and family in RL, however, even they risk getting thier throats ripped out, depending on my mood. Actually, I could care less what someone calls me since I know if it truly applies to me or not and that is all that really matters. Someone can believe I'm a whore all they want to but that does not make it true. I know I'm not and that is what is important.



Is it alright to use $20 words to call a person a fucktard instead?

Assuming you mean using more eloquent words to call someone names rather than using the actual words you are thinking, there is nothing wrong with that. If someone can't use a dictionary to look up the meaning of words they don't know... well... that is thier problem and stupidity.



If the Lindens gave a clear definition or list of what was appropriate language, would you change your posting habits?

Not really, since I rarely, if ever, feel the need to use words that would most likely be on such a list. I am perfectly capable of vocalizing my thoughts without using "vulgar language".



Feel free to post the cultures that influence your language. It gives context.

I am a Lakhota (Sioux) woman who was taken from her family and adopted and raised by a white southern family.



NOTE: If you feel that we already have a clear definition in the TOS, or you believe a Linden has made a definative ruling on this issue, please post your sources.


5. USER CONDUCT

5.1 Participant Conduct.



(x) "stalk" or otherwise harass another user. Any violation by you of the terms of the foregoing sentence may result in immediate and permanent suspension or cancellation of your Account. You agree that Linden may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you.

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php







Harassment
Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

I really like what you posted. Something to think about.


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I've seen the wording, but what does it mean? What is offensively coarse... and in the absence of a Linden ruling, do other residents get to decide? My take on that paragraph is that the offensively coarse part can't be seperated from the threatening and unwelcome advances part.

OK, I really mean it this time. *exerts willpower to not hit refresh button*

Thank you.






I'd have to say that it depends on the people involved and the situation. What is offensive to one may not be offensive to another. That is why LL investigates abuse reports and makes the final decision without giving any explaination of the decision. What works for one situation won't neccessarily work for another even if it is similar. If LL were to state we decided such and such for this reason, sooner or later someone will try to use it against LL in a situation where that decision really does not apply. Saves LL from alot of grief, etc.


The paragraph is an either/or paragraph denoted by the use of the commas. This method is used to eliminate redundant wording. Let's break it up into separate sentences.


Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, is Harassment.

Communicating or behaving in a manner which is intimidating or threatening, is Harassment.

Communicating or behaving in a manner which constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, is Harassment.

Communicating or behaving in a manner which is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

I read the offensively coarse part the same way - as it is worded, it is inseperable from intimidating or threatening. The real problem with that sentence is the final part:

Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

That is way too vague - anyone could claim something causes them annoyance, and thus is harassment according to the TOS.

Please read my post above.

That last part is why LL investigates abuse reports and does not publish it's findings and decisions. If you'll think about it the police blotter doesn't name names for that very reason.

Please, while my present home state has more than a few problems, Coco is not among them, to the best of my knowledge.

Oh I understand that and I wasn't disagreeing with you, but it is still troublingly vague and contributes to the confusion over what is or is not acceptable. Then again, they can suspend our accounts on a whim, so I suppose a vague part of the TOS on what constitutes harassment isn't so bad by comparison.

It would seem there's some infighting brought into an otherwise relevant topic that I refuse to comment on, despite intuition giving me an idea of what kind of people the two combatants are, except to say that this is not the place for it. Lot of people dont really care for the drama and I am one.

I also see a lot of people who are offended at any suggestion that they might ought to tone down their manner of speaking or how they carry themselves before others who may hold to a more modest standard of conduct.

To those people, I would suggest that doing so isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor does it mean you can't be yourself. It is common courtesy to avoid doing anything which might needlessly cause conflict, taking the higher (and humbler) ground when dealing with those who might be more prudish in certain areas.

I will agree that we do use a lot of euphemisms which in practicality have the same meaning. I myself tend to prefer the less colorful euphemisms, but I won't complain or quote the ToS if someone around me uses vulgar language. I can, for the most part, filter it out, especially if I know it is habit, rather than done for shock value.

I would recommend learning to avoid using such vulgar language (and any potentially offensive vulgar behavior) especially in PG areas, where many of the residents who prefer to avoid such might like to hang out. A bit of courtesy can go a long way, especially in a world where people of all sorts and cultures gather.

If they were more specific about what constitutes harrassment then it would most likely render the tolerance clause in the TOS invalid. It's basically a case of we can have our cake and eat it but we can't have any icing.

Very well said. And bears repeating. Although, personally, I would have left the higher ground/humbler part out. It does sound rather condescending. "It is common courtesy to avoid doing anything which might needlessly cause conflict.", is what I would have said and left it at that. And it is more than just common courtesy. It's called treating others as you would have them treat you. You know, that Golden Rule thing...regardless of whether it is RL, SL, forums or any other gathering type place.

I can understand it sounds condescending. My apologies to you for that.

But I do think that the person who controls their words around others when what they would normally say would cause offense shows themselves to be of sterner stuff than the person who would be offended by it.

It's a trait to admire in my eyes.