New group open to all. Skybox Hunter

Sorry, but taht excuse doesn't fly. Since P2P you can teleport anywhere you need to go.

Well like any responsable officer I would kick any member who wasnt behaveing them selves. I am sure I wouldnt be the first officer to kick a member for being a retard?

My feelings exactly, and I also don't understand why it offends people so highly.

Fortunately though, it's the people who pay tier who pay the bills for LL, not the "SL's just a game, and I'll intrude on your land if I want," crowd.

The ability to restrict unwanted people from our land been strengthened repeatedly by LL lately, and will no doubt be reinforced more as time goes by.

Fortunately, LL at least seems to be aware of who is paying the bills.

I hope you arnt trying to say that I dont pay teir ?

See, politeness/etiquette is social lubricant. It's not /required/ that you apologise for landing in the middle of someone's land on an explore where it disturbs a party, but they aren't /required/ to let you leave of your own volition or let you back in.

I have a right to walk across land, fly across land, drive across land - owned by Governor Linden or anyone else - that isn't group/whitelist/banlist restricted. If it's obviously an enclosed space - cube, ball, walled off, whatever - I refuse to look inside. If I can see it from someone else's property, however - completely fair game to view it, hover there, photograph it, what /ever/ because despite the demands of Neighborhood Associations everywhere, I fully support anyone's /right/ to do whatever they want in or on or with their property, and their right to do it stops right at the property line. They don't get to reach over it to stop me from taking a public photo of a publicly viewable skybox that anyone who has their draw distance set to 512/700 meters and who is looking straight up/across/down can see. Don't want that view propagated to the public? WALL!

At the same time, people who knowingly come back to a privately held but openly accessible place they've been asked to leave / kicked out of / banned from? In the real world, that's called trespassing and loitering, it's a /real criminal offense/ and in some places the owner may in some circumstances consider your repeated criminal behaviour to be evidentiary of a clear and present danger to his life, health, or property - an affirmative defense to homicide. Or to put it clearly - don't even hint that you're going to stalk people.

Now, anyone's camera agent can wheel right through/over/into banned land and over and have a looksee. And in my understanding, there's no way to detect agents doing this. MAYBE instead of whingeing about "peeping toms" and "fascist freedom-haters" we actually ask Linden Labs for a technical solution that allows scripts to detect user agent cameras - to diff those that have no avatars within X meters? So that people don't have to build all their uber-secret builds inside five enclosed walls

Well with that sort of disrespect for others I hope you don't expect anyone to ever show you any respect.

Nothing to do with respect - I'm using a provided and supported feature of the client. You, on the other hand, are imposing a RL societal norm on a virtual world where any expectation of that norm, specifically privacy, does not exist other than as a desire on your part.

I did not agree to observe any such norm when I accepted the ToS, and on last reading I don't recall it ever even mentioning such a norm, let alone guaranteeing you a right to it. My flying by, taking photographs of your build, etc. in no way constitutes any sort of ToS violation. Any attempt on your part to prevent me from exercising those rights to features of the client that I pay for is, in my view, an actionable ToS violation.

Two different views - time and Linden actions will prove whose is the right one.

Goddamn, I understand the need for privacy when you get your virtual groove on up there above the clouds but this is just ridiculous. I think this thread has set my personal record for eye-rolling

So, not only should we not take pictures of skyboxes, approach skyboxes, stop for 5 seconds to observe a skybox, we shouldn't even look at the damn things at all. We're not talking about peeping at nudie avatars. We're talking about looking at a building. LOOKING.

Holy christ...

It reminds me of this Spinal Tap scene where Nigel shows off his guitar collection:

Nigel Tufnel: Look... still has the old tag on, never even played it.
Marty DiBergi: [points his finger] You've never played...?
Nigel Tufnel: Don't touch it!
Marty DiBergi: We'll I wasn't going to touch it, I was just pointing at it.
Nigel Tufnel: Well... don't point! It can't be played.
Marty DiBergi: Don't point, okay. Can I look at it?
Nigel Tufnel: No. no. That's it, you've seen enough of that one.

Sometimes people amaze me...

LOL

And as a few of us have mentioned before, skyboxes aren't always about sex. Sometimes a person just wants to be alone. I didn't realize wanting to be alone occasionally was such an offensive practice.


There is such a thing as asking permission to go inside or take pictures. I think a lot of the people who are sounding off in this thread would've felt a lot easier if there had been some mention of asking permission and less mention of the covert aspect.

So, Harris, when a bunch of people decide "party in the luskwood workshop!" while we're trying to build a new av, your answer is, "cope" ?

Or buy a separate sim to keep 'looky-loos' out who will incessantly page with "isitdoneyet hey hey i saw that thing you were working on isitdoneyet isitdoneyet huh huh"?

Bullshit. I'm the one using a provide supported feature(banning/access tools) your the one exploiting a hack(god mode) to bypass the provided features and my clear wishes. And there will be no debate with you on my security system. Your black listed that means perma banned to 768m and my security system will ignore you. Of course you can exploit the godmode HACK to cam in anyways. But you have no space to whine about having any rights.

Jonas Pieterson--you have private messages disabled, so the only way I can say this is in the forum.

You have the right to manage your land any way you want to. You're paying for the land, and you're contributing a hell of a lot more money a month to the lindens than I am, which is only $10 a month.

SL for a huge percentage of people is about finding cool new places to see, hang out, and finding cool new people. You don't seem to be in SL for any of those reasons, and it seriously confuses me.

Have you ever considered working with game engines of other programs that you could share with your close friends instead? You know, something that's completely closed to the public to begin with...

Griefers primarily grief to ruin the enjoyment of SL for people. I question your motives in the way you handle your land as to whether you don't just do it for the same reason as griefers grief--to purposely ruin the enjoyment of SL for people.

Others who talk about privacy on this forum seem to make sense--they seem to just be genuinely wanting privacy. Your posts do not give me that impression, and until you say some things that do give me that impression, I'm going to believe, as well as I imagine many others will believe as well, that you are primarily interested in SL so you can implement power trips--and you have that right, you're paying a substantial amount more a month for that privilege. Just like in real life, in SL, money is power, and just like in real life, there's nothing illegal about being on a power trip.

Your posts are the reason why I almost quit SL because your posts gave me the impression that exploring in SL was a bad thing. Luckily, after getting re-assured from others on SL, I found out that exploring generally IS a good thing and it is the reason why a lot of people are involved with SL.

I refuse to judge others in SL by your attitude.

A group geared towards EXPLORING and enjoying SL.
That is a great idea. Provided you aren't peeping, or, umm,
looking too close (?), "griefing", I think its an admirable idea.

Good for your Trixy Perhaps, and good luck with your group.
People's reaction to your post was TOO FUNNY. If those of us
are REALLY that paranoid (or do have privacy complexes), I
would say just Limit access to the land our Skyboxes are on!
That should solve the problem, no? ^^

Don't be dscouraged.

A.P

EDIT: Read the stuff about GOD Mode and peeping,
yeah that sucks, but I dont think (form my understanding
of this group's purpose) it applies to this thread about
this exploration group.... If im wrong... Sorry. The first
post seemed pretty innocent.

You are 100 % right and thank you

Personally, I would rather not destroy the beauty of the peaceful tropical island lagoon below my skybox with a nasty-looking column of ban lines reaching 768 meters into the sky, and screaming to everyone below, "Look up here!". I want people to be able to enjoy the lagoon on the surface. I'll use a security orb up in the box to ensure my privacy, if I must.

I think not a lot of people get it that this isn't just about privacy issues or the lack of it, ban lines, security orbs, and so forth. From my end I see a great deal of issue regarding respect, or rather the the lack of it.

Landowners/skybox owners can do whatever they want with their land/build (as long as it is within the the TOS), they don't have to explain the why, the how, the what they do with their land/build. There is no justification, no need to explain why they do so. As long as what they do is within the TOS it is their every right to do whatever the hell they want with it.

Visitors/Explorers, do NOT tell us what do with our land/skyboxes. You are the visitor, traipsing into someone else's property (or wanting to take pictures which can be for a lot be seen as rude and even suspicious behavior). In the end the owner has the right and final say on what you can do in his property/build etc.

I'm not going to stop you or anyone from exploring or doing something they enjoy, you guys have every right to do so. However, if you want to show off other people's builds in your site/group/whatever or explore into someone else's property (especially if you're not sure if it's made for the public--skyboxes are prime example of space that is hard to distinguish if it's for public or private), please give the landowner/skyboxes the courtesy and respect by asking their permission first.

Is that so hard to ask? Doesn't anybody realize that asking permission is a sign of respect?

Has everyone forgot what respect is? Or was that something a lot of parents and teachers forgot to ingrain in you while you were growing up? Or maybe it's the internet's fault, annoynimity it seems has a great way of turning most socially accepted individuals into flaming retards.

For the landowners/skybox owners, if someone does ask permission, no matter what your answer may be, please reply in a respectable manner. Let's not assume that every explorer out there is a build/texture thief, or a griefer.

A little respect goes a long way, and it's not something you can turn on in RL and off in SL. Disrespect is disrespect. Period.

Don't worry Jon, the meager bit of respect she had as all do when I first meet them, she lost in that post.

Hey Trixy, I agree with a lot of what you have been saying, and as I feel that people are a little bit paranoid about their land, probably because of relentless griefers, it is their right to do (and I'm not saying that you didn't say they had the right, I just want anyone reading this to know without a doubt that I'm not trying to tell people what they have the right to do on their land).

If people weren't so paranoid about this sort of thing, I'd join your group, because I find the concept intriguing. The only thing I don't think would be good about it is giving the coordinates to the skybox being reviewed--maybe just stating what parcel its on, but not the exact coordinates. Nevertheless, I will not be joining your group, as I haven't joined any groups beyond dance clubs because I don't want to be held responsible for the actions of other people.

I wish you luck with your group.

Bullshit. The camera features are inherent in the client and exposed via a reverse engineering project encouraged by Linden Labs. Don't like that? Tough. Better get used to it, because I predict LL will open up the unlimited camera within the client anytime now.

Your wishes really don't matter. You can wish for privacy all you want - SL does not provide for it and likely never will.

As for your ban, good for you - use the limited privacy features LL provides. As I said earlier, I've no overwhelming desire, or need, to be on your parcel anyway. If it gives you the illusion of privacy, great. Personally, I far prefer my sim, from which you have similarly been banned. The big difference? My privacy is complete.

Yah and mapping everyone is is also "inherent in the client and exposed via a reverse engineering project encouraged by Linden Labs" until they actually integrate it as accessible to YOU in THEIR provided client your exploiting a hack. And I'm certain if they do add it it won't be for the reasons your exploiting it. And very open about being totally uninterested about respecting other people.

Actually the Lindens saw fit to restrict the map function with the last update. Their choice, I have no problem with it. They obviously do not feel the same way about camera controls, a wise choice on their part.

And is that for editing purposes or so you can be the ultimate snoop?

True. The same could be said of any structure, but point taken.



Who said anything about going inside...or even looking inside? You see, this is the argument that puts my eyes on permanent roll...I see no problem with flying by and taking pictures of any structure (even a freakin' skybox) if you do so at a respectful distance. I'm not talking about walking on the thing, peeking in the windows or anything like that for fucks sake.

People immediately go to the extreme. Someone says they would like to take pictures of skyboxes and folks yell "GREIFER!!!!" The implication is that "taking pictures of skyboxes" equals walking in uninvited. It doesn't.

All of this could be avoided very easily. Build a huge plywood cube. Make the inside as beautiful as you want. This will foil the evil explorers who happen by looking for interesting builds. All the while, you'll be inside chuckling, sitting on your luxurious leather sofa knowing how fabulous your plywood cube really is.

But this attitude is just a reflection of the real world. No one should be surprised.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/28/no_taking_pix_of_san.html

I know this story involves taking pictures of buildings from public places but the similarities came to me immediately. The camera Nazis are alive and well in SL as well as RL.

What bothers me most is that the notion of privacy in SL has become an all-encompassing ideal that results in the building of virtual walls. Seeing harm in taking a picture of the outside of a structure boggles my mind. Personally, I hope I never become so infatuated with this definition of privacy that a I set myself apart from the world, virtual or otherwise.