New group open to all. Skybox Hunter

Did i Miss something here?

~Find Skyboxes
~Photo same
~Discuss, and Rate the Builds

There was nothing about Photoing the residents, or discussing what they DO in a skybox.
Just Pictures of Interesting Builds.
I didn't see anything here that Approched griefing.
I constructed a Skybox, and i'm quite proud of it. I would be Flattered if someone wanted to Photo it.
Pull the Bug out, and Relax people.

Angel.

I'm late to this thread, but I am just wondering...when was the election for SL zoning commitee? I must have missed it, but I guess there is one because the commitee members ssem to be on this thread dictating to others what skyboxes are and are not for. And here I am with a platform at 700m that I had been planning to turn into a skybox that added to the backstory of my parcel, which I like people to visit.

If you private people don't want others near your skybox then put up a security system. Just make sure it isn't one that violates the ToS...

I think it's fair to photograph the outside of a build on the ground. It's bascially in the public's view, and the builder should not have a reasonable expectation no one will look at the outside of their building on the ground.

Whatever the reason someone builds a house in the sky - I built mine so as to not visually crowd my neighbour's house on the ground - it's not really up to every landowner to explain why they did so. it's reasonable to assume they may not want pictures of the outside of a skybox taken, or it's location revealed. You can IM them to ask, of course. I didn't build my house in the sky, but I like it. My only unhappiness is my prim count is so full I can't furnish it properly.

I don't think it's reasonable to enter a structure on the ground or in the air to take pictures without permission (or perhaps a sign or note on the land). When places are commercial and want folks in, it's usually pretty obvious.

It's true that none of the above would typically be considered a violation of the ToS. But I don't base my behaviour on what the limits of the ToS are, I would just prefer to be polite. That cannot be enforced by a rule, people have to decide what they think being polite means.

And for different reasons. Privacy is one - and even privacy has different reasons. About half of my land at ground level is under water (it's a beach front), and rather than build a pier home like some of my neighbors, getting crowded by other ground level homes I chose to build mine in the sky. When a club opened next door complete with shouting raffle ball and endless "^^^HOWLZZZZZ^^^" I was very glad I did it this way. I use it for peace and quiet, a retreat from clubs and malls, and as a workshop to build my products. To enforce my privacy and keep people away who tend to map stalk me (and they're out there), I have a "Junkyard dog" security orb with a 15 second warning before eject.

I think some of you have overreacted to Trixy's idea. It sounds like it has potential to be fun, even though there ARE some serious considerations that need to be taken as far as privacy. And it would be interesting to hear from that group after they've done some exploration as to how often they crash into ban lines or get bounced by security scripts. They may find that the project is tougher than they expected.

As a newbie and not knowing all the "rules"...this thread makes me really scared to even go exploring! First of all I don't have a clue as to what's private, unless of course I run flat into a HUGE sign stating that....which I have done that once! lol Is there a list of rules somewhere I need to read? I mean seriously....I don't want to get banned or piss anyone off, as I'm here to meet new and interesting ppl. I think I'm just too used to playing TSO where your pretty much welcome to visit, and incouraged to do so anywhere. And if you do try to enter where your not wanted it just tells you you don't have permission and you can't get in.

Okay, done. My security orb is now set to TP people who intrude on my skybox home without notice. It's set to maximum range, and it covers a lot of land, all of which I own.

Are you happy now?

<begin rant>
I am *so* fucking tired of simply asking for a bit of consideration, that people not treat my home in SL like some sort of public display or playground or club, and get yelled at and dumped on for it.

I am paying out of pocket for over 1/4 sim, and the entire ground level is landscaped and available to the public with the simple request that a) That people leave the beach (One made out of prims, and not connected to any SL water.) when asked, and b) that they not bother me or my family when we're at home in our skybox, or on our building platforms.

Unfortunately, this seems to be too much for some people. The ground and gardens and what I give freely are not enough. They want it *all*.

If I'm out sunbathing with half a dozen friends and ask tell a stranger who drops in that it's a private gathering and ask them to leave, if I'm at home in the sky and they're hovering around and camming into the building and I ask them to leave, aparently if I'm with a friend talking, or spending time with my gf and want some privacy...aparently I'm a bastard.

Aparently SL is "Just a Game" and despite paying for land I have no right to chose who I associate with there or under what terms...it's a game and so I should put up, no, I should *welcome* anyone at *any* time.

Well, to all of you who think that, and are never shy about saying it, tough. I paid for my land and I'm sick of all of the bitching, moaning and complaining. I'm particularly tired of being told, "If you don't want people around, run an orb, or turn on your ban lines." A moderate aproach is aparently not acceptable. So, I'm done being moderate. If anyone who isn't on a white list gets too close to my skybox, don't bitch if you suddenly find yourself at home again.

Don't like it, tough. LL makes most of their money off of tier, which means that they're not likely to turn SL into the privacy free paradise that some people seem to want. Personally, I encourage every other skyboxy and land owner who's tired of being whined at for wanting some consideration to do the same.
</rant>

Seriously, it's not that bad.

You just happened to walk into a fight between people who think that anyone should be able to go anywhere at anytime because this is "Just a Game," and the people who want to have some control over the land they're paying for, and of course you're seeing the frothing at the mouth extremes.

(I got the froth out of mysystem in my last post.

First, as long as you stay on the ground, you should be okay with exploring. If people are on the ground and outdoors, say "hi", generally they're friendly. If you're concerned, if they seem to be involved with other people, you might want to ask if them if you're intruding.

Generally, you don't want to walk into buildings, but most people don't seem to have a problem with you using your camera to look around inside of them, again, as long as they're empty.

If it's in the sky, sometimes people can get touchy, since a lot of people consider sky builds to be private by default. Definitely don't aproach those if there are people there.

Generally, people in SL are pretty open and friendly, and shouldn't mind you looking around, so long as you're polite, and remember that the builds *are* private property, and not something provided by the game.

OK Jack....Whew!! I feel a little better. My flying skills aren't that great anyway, so staying on the ground won't be a problem! Hell....I do good to walk a straight line as of right now!!

Wecome, Tatiana! Feel free to come wander around my place, Dunraven, in Moraine. I have ruins and a cave with a little patch of forest, plus a dock where my boat is. And I have a little spinning planet in the ruins that gives out a notecard of interesting and/or useful places I've been to.

Find random two dots on the map.

Take pictures of their activities.

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

Not all skyboxes are used for sex.

I know this is shocking, but exhaustive research bears out that it may actually be true in some cases.

Some are used as workshops to avoid a constant "whatchadoin whatchadoin huh huh whatchadoin oh i think you should do that different oh can i have that for free my cousin made one thats better than that whatchadoin wahtchadoin whatchadoin hey you got any spare L$?" while working.

I'd really rather -not- have some of the avatars/releases we're in the middle of working on "liberated" to the public before we release them.

Like Jack said, it's usually not that big of a deal. Most of the time if you accidentally fly through someone's build they'll never even know it unless they're home.

I already invited you over to my place if you want to use my photography studio Nothing to hide here, I just love peace and quiet sometimes.

Don't fall out, though. It's a long way dowwwwwwwwwn!

Thanks so much! I'll definately come wander!

LOL...maybe I need a parachute before coming. I definately want to come by sometime.

Trixy? When I read your post, my first impression was that the exploring aspect was cool, but I expected your 'club gallery' to consist mostly of illicit photos of strangers engaged in intimate behavior. Some suggestions, to make your group more acceptable to a lot more people.

1: Drop the bit about "covertly", because to many people that screams an intent to invade privacy.

2: State clearly that members are NOT to photograph the interior of a build when it is occupied, without explicit permission from the owner of the build.

3: Do NOT publish the coordinates of a sky build that is above 300 Meters without permission from the owner of the build.


I have a beautiful skybox that I would happily give you a tour of, and allow you to take pictures of, inside and out - IF YOU ASK PERMISSION. It has a lovely Japanese Bath on the top, and interesting rooms inside. However, I would not permit you to publish it's exact coordinates, because I don't want swarms of uninvited guests. It's way up at 700 Meters to ensure privacy when I want it. If I wanted to entertain casual walk-in guests, I would have built the structure on the ground, or below 300 Meters, where anyone can fly to it.

While I'll admit that it's occasionally used for wild private encounters, it's main function is as a private workspace and office, and an example of my building skills for my building clients to appreciate. I talk to clients up there about sims they are planning to build, and discuss private financial matters. Confidential stuff, that sometimes can't be handled all by IM, as we may need to look at models and prototypes for builds or products that have not yet been released to the public. There is no way in SL, other than owning a private sim, to ensure complete privacy. For the rest of us, building above 300 meters restricts access to those who are using a flight assist or vehicle, and keeps most casual intruders away.

While SL is 'Just a game' to you, for many of us it is an extension of our daily lives. We work on projects involving real financial transactions that occasionally have need for privacy. We meet with friends who may have no other way to ever interact with us. My Companion in SL lives thousands of miles from me, in another country. SL is the only place we can share personal time together, and we rarely get a chance to be intimate. So when we seek privacy, and do everything we can do short of purchasing a sim and making it completely private, can you understand that we would be upset at having strangers hovering outside the range of our security scripts, listening to our conversations and snapping pictures like we were animals in the zoo?

I visited Trixy's clubhouse yesterday. There were two sky build reports displayed. Both were complimentary and reflected a true interest in the exterior of the build, not the inhabitants or the interior. The photos are from a respectful distance and there is no landmark or location information given.

I completely understand the privacy concerns expressed in this thread. Some of you who feel strongly about it have already imposed security measures. You're protected. Another point on your side is that there are many, many, many sky builds to view. Chances are she'll never even run into your places. You've already warned her off, so I doubt she'll seek you out purposely.

Plus, Trixy has repeatedly said she's not interested in spying or invading privacy or disrespecting landowners. I truly hope this thread doesn't scare off nice people like Tatiana, who really don't know if they should fly around and enjoy the view.

General rule of thumb. If a build has no windows or obvious means of entry, it's almost certainly intended for use by the owner and invited guests only.

Some skyboxes will be decorated on the outside so they don't present so much of an eyesore to those flying by. In the sim my fancy skybox is in, the sim rules state that sky builds must be over 300M altitude, preferably at 500 or more, and even then must match the tropical theme of the sim. The minimum altitude rule is so people on the ground enjoying the sim don't have to stare at a sky full of skyboxes.

My skybox is pretty on top, and the windowless lower section is textured to look like clouds and sky. Haven't tried invisaprim shielding yet. I may do that some time.

Every time I bring up Skybox Hunting (or, as I call it, Skylunking), there's always the arguement from paranoid land owners and explorers.

Land Owners: It's my private space, blah blah blah stay the fuck out blah blah security
Explorers: No place in SL is really private blah blah blah don't want anyone to see your sexball collection blah blah black ar you fuckers into oblivion blah blah

Now... I'd like to join, since I've tried this before but lack the knack of assembling groups.
I have some suitable toys for the job that allow us into any place that's not orbed.

Burke, if all they want to do is take pictures, they can do that from a respectful distance with the camera controls, and could take pictures inside and out. They just need a flight assist to get up there. No other 'gadgets' are needed.

If they want to put their avatars inside a space that has locked doors and windows, I can see no reason to do that unless they plan to steal access time on the sex toys in someone's private bedroom in the sky. And that, in my opinion, is just plain tacky to do.

Tackyness with other people's sex toys is the spice of (second) life!

Damn I wish we could rate individual posts. Lol

It still amazes me that anyone thinks there is any privacy in SL. Until the Lindens implement a ban to the sky, or at least to something around 768m, any such expectation is delusional.

Security Orbs, Invisiprims, bastion walls, etc. cannot keep anyone out. The Linden-supported libsecondlife project God mode tool opens up unlimited camera movement, so it's quite possible to photograph both inside and outside spaces from 100s of meters away. This renders bans and security scripts useless, other than for entry protection. Things like invisible prims are easily spotted, particularly in any sort of organized search pattern, and often glitch enough to spot them by eye. Such things might keep the casual flyer unaware, but not the experienced explorer.

Did I read someplace that systems which do this without notice are ToS violations and reportable? I sorta remember it.

Speaking as a skydweller, I'm all for skylunking. It is after all how i met the excellent Mr Burke Prefect.
Yes, my skybox has erm, private chambers, but its certainly not there to be hidden (given its footprint on the mini map, its not easily hidden). Its my home, yes, but i dont mind friends dropping by, or the odd random visitor.