Down with letting any user make and market content!
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-22-2005 09:47
From: Kim Anubis Remember how, in grade school, you couldn't give a Valentine to just the kid you had a crush on and your actual friends? If you wanted to give a card to anyone you cared about, you would also be required to spend money on and give an expression of caring ("BEE MINE!"  to every single kid in the class, even the one who tried to cheat off your quiz and got you in trouble, or the guy who threatened to beat you up if you didn't hand over your milk money, or the girl who would cry and wail, "It's not FAIIIIIIIIIIR!" like a preschooler when she didn't like what her mom gave her for lunch and you wouldn't trade. I think Second Life should be *just* *like* *that* You know, "fair." I think, if you give any thread five stars, you should have to give EVERY thread five stars. Because "fairness" is more important than honesty and useful communication. I think this one sums it up nicely. 
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-22-2005 09:48
From: Cocoanut Koala I don't know how to link in the forums! (Which is one reason I never started a blog.) Very convenient. Now you do: Find whatever article you think proves your point. Click the white bar with the black text in it that represents the URL of that page in question. Go to Edit > Copy Come back here and post a new message. Go to Edit > Paste.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-22-2005 09:49
From: Kim Anubis Remember how, in grade school, you couldn't give a Valentine to just the kid you had a crush on and your actual friends? If you wanted to give a card to anyone you cared about, you would also be required to spend money on and give an expression of caring ("BEE MINE!" to every single kid in the class, even the one who tried to cheat off your quiz and got you in trouble, or the guy who threatened to beat you up if you didn't hand over your milk money, or the girl who would cry and wail, "It's not FAIIIIIIIIIIR!" like a preschooler when she didn't like what her mom gave her for lunch and you wouldn't trade. I think Second Life should be *just* *like* *that* You know, "fair." I think, if you give any thread five stars, you should have to give EVERY thread five stars. Because "fairness" is more important than honesty and useful communication. Damn. Exactly. You're good. 
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-22-2005 09:57
From: Surreal Farber You misunderstood. I'm saying don't be a hypocrite. If you complain about mockery and derision, then use those tactics yourself it is clear that you believe in a double standard. I understood that, Surreal. coco |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-22-2005 10:03
From: Enabran Templar Very convenient.
Now you do:
Find whatever article you think proves your point.
Click the white bar with the black text in it that represents the URL of that page in question.
Go to Edit > Copy
Come back here and post a new message.
Go to Edit > Paste. Thank you, Enabran. Here's one: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111975&highlight=rate+a+thread coco |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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12-22-2005 10:04
From: Enabran Templar Damn. Exactly. You're good. The problem is that the star ratings, which I think were what was originally being referred, aren't necessarily honesty and useful communication. If we could have some kind of brainscanner attached to user's PC that would verify they were actually indicating what they thought about the product, then that would work. As it is, someone who's making something themselves can post their own thread, then go into every competitor's thread and rate it 1 even if they've never seen the product. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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12-22-2005 10:10
From: Yumi Murakami The problem is that the star ratings, which I think were what was originally being referred, aren't necessarily honesty and useful communication. The problem with the star ratings is that, just like dwell/popularity.... it can be bought if you have the L$ to throw away. Any form of rating of popularity or quality can always be bought by people with their sights set on money rather than anything honest. Unfortunately, apart from doing away with all of it (which isn't an ideal situation either), I can't see how any form of fairness or equality or true reflection of popularity or quality can be reflected. Lewis |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-22-2005 10:23
If anyone is actually going around paying people to rate them with stars, well... a fool and his money are soon parted. I don't think people are as easily swayed by some stupid anonymous star rating system as some would have us believe. (No, not even poor impressionable newbies.) I don't see the need for a rating system at all in the Classifieds. I don't go through catalogs deciding what I'm going to buy by how many stars other people thought it was worth, and that is essentially what the New Products forums are supposed to be. If I think something is cool, I'll buy it, regardless of how many jackasses rated it 1 star. If I think something is ca-ca, I won't be influenced to buy it just because some other jackasses have given it 5 stars. Are people really that easily influenced? I like to think they aren't. From: Lewis Nerd The problem with the star ratings is that, just like dwell/popularity.... it can be bought if you have the L$ to throw away.
Any form of rating of popularity or quality can always be bought by people with their sights set on money rather than anything honest.
Unfortunately, apart from doing away with all of it (which isn't an ideal situation either), I can't see how any form of fairness or equality or true reflection of popularity or quality can be reflected.
Lewis
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Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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12-22-2005 10:39
I read and post stuff in the Classifieds, and I guess I'm smart enough to understand how the star system might be gamed. I figure, in fact, that pretty much everyone here reading the forums is smart enough to understand that. Although I do wonder about the people who had a hard enough time working that out that they feel that they have to explain it to others . . .
I don't think anyone's a big enough dumbbutt to decide whether or not to buy a thing based on the number of stars it got in some forum thread. The deal with the star rating is that it catches the eye, whether it's five stars or one. It makes me want to have a look, and in fact, I'm MORE likely to check out a thread with a lone star. There are lots of threads with five, but so few with just one, and one is MUCH better drama. Why -- why one star? I have to pop open that thread and see!
Classifieds are for ADVERTISING, not market research or ego strokes. If you really want feedback on your work, get it from your friends, or gauge it by your sales, or do some actual testing and surveys like in RL.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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12-22-2005 10:47
From: Jonquille Noir Are people really that easily influenced? I like to think they aren't. Well, bringing in experience from my TSO days, before the change you could exchange 'friendship balloons' with people to show who your friends were - but you only had limited amounts to give out so you had to be sparing. Of course, the battle as to who was the most popular started, and many people went round "buying" people's friend balloon links to make them look like the most wonderful and popular person. We called them "balloon whores". Wherever there is anything regarding popularity.... people will spend money on it. It's almost like advertising really, people spend ridiculous amounts of money because they want you to spend yours buying that item, rather than a competitor's which may be better. I have found some truly wonderful creations in SL with traffic of less than 50 - which have been far, far more enjoyable than the "mega clubs" with tens of thousands of 'traffic' (which consists mostly of bought time through camping chairs). Why do you think people have camping chairs? To make themselves look popular. Buying dwell. Just like people would buy 5 star ratings. Trust me, there is nothing new in online gaming. Every bit of abuse I can think of in SL would have happened in TSO and probably other games if I'd have played them. Lewis |
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Sebastian Skye
Second Life Resident
Join date: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 89
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12-22-2005 10:49
From: Jauani Wu the freedom for anyone to create and sell content is being gamed such that there is a lot of mediocre and even ugly content out there!
LL, please put a stop to letting just anyone rez a prim. for example look at other succesful games like WOW and There, where players cannot just upload a funy texture and sell tshirts.
Thank you! I was going to say something, but it's already been said, so I won't. (Wow, that was easy.)
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-22-2005 11:16
You're probably right, but it makes me sad that people are that pathetic. From: Lewis Nerd Well, bringing in experience from my TSO days, before the change you could exchange 'friendship balloons' with people to show who your friends were - but you only had limited amounts to give out so you had to be sparing. Of course, the battle as to who was the most popular started, and many people went round "buying" people's friend balloon links to make them look like the most wonderful and popular person. We called them "balloon whores".
Wherever there is anything regarding popularity.... people will spend money on it. It's almost like advertising really, people spend ridiculous amounts of money because they want you to spend yours buying that item, rather than a competitor's which may be better.
I have found some truly wonderful creations in SL with traffic of less than 50 - which have been far, far more enjoyable than the "mega clubs" with tens of thousands of 'traffic' (which consists mostly of bought time through camping chairs). Why do you think people have camping chairs? To make themselves look popular. Buying dwell. Just like people would buy 5 star ratings.
Trust me, there is nothing new in online gaming. Every bit of abuse I can think of in SL would have happened in TSO and probably other games if I'd have played them.
Lewis
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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12-22-2005 12:29
The wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful things!
Their tops are made out of rubber;
Their bottoms are made out of springs!
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
Oh the wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful chaps!
They're loaded with vim and with vigor;
They love to leap in your laps!
They're jumpy, bumpy, clumpy, thumpy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
Tiggers are cuddly fellas.
Tiggers are awfully sweet.
Ev'ryone else is jealous.
That's why I repeat and repeat:
The wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful things!
Their tops are made out of rubber;
Their bottoms are made out of springs!
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
Heffelumps and Woozles indeed.
Fitting, this little bit of intellectual property piracy. Because really before we discuss ownership of content we should discuss intellectual property theft in SL. Since all your bases are belong to me..i mean since I, as Emporer of second life, own all the intellectual property anyway.
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ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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12-22-2005 12:53
From: Ingrid Ingersoll Heffalumps and Woozles are a much bigger problem. We should start with them. Thanks for the nightmare fodder. I don't know if I shall be able to sleep ever again. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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12-22-2005 13:23
From: Introvert Petunia Thanks for the nightmare fodder. I don't know if I shall be able to sleep ever again. |
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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12-22-2005 15:23
From: Cocoanut Koala This in addition to purposely rating my threads and classified product threads low just because they can. Which, ironically, proves my point. to be honest, i didn't rate your angels 1 star "just because i can". i rated them 1 star because they are really lame. From: someone They don't believe I should be allowed to say such controversial, hideous things. So they respond with mass ridicule like the babies they are.
They very much don't want me, Coco, to speak on these forums, or to persuade others, regarding fairness or anything. i have no problem with you saying whatever you want. it usually makes for a funny day. i don't know who the "they" are. can you please define who/what "they" is so i can figure out what you are talking about? also, please stick to the topic of the thread. letting just anyone make content reduces the quality of second life for everyone!
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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12-22-2005 15:28
From: Lewis Nerd Probably a good time to point people to my siggy and advertise my nice little store. thank you for the infomercial interruption. please post more often and use blinking images in your siggy for greater effect!
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read my blog
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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12-22-2005 15:29
From: Jauani Wu to be honest, i didn't rate your angels 1 star "just because i can". i rated them 1 star because they are really lame.
I think I peed just a little bit.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-22-2005 15:33
From: Jauani Wu i don't know who the "they" are. can you please define who/what "they" is so i can figure out what you are talking about? Let me help you out, there. 
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-22-2005 15:58
Jauani, everyone knows what your opinion is of my work - all of it, that is, that you have ever commented on.
I think it would be really nice if I could see some of YOUR work to comment on it. Could you either drop me some landmarks to things you have made, and tell me what it is to look for, or drop copies of some of them in my inventory?
I have really no idea what you make. That really isn't fair considering you denigrate my work at every opportunity and on every blog. Give me a chance to critique some of your stuff.
coco
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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12-22-2005 17:56
From: Cocoanut Koala I have really no idea what you make. That really isn't fair considering you denigrate my work at every opportunity and on every blog. Give me a chance to critique some of your stuff. i've barely critiqued your work, and it was only on my blog. i've critiqued bumfeld in several places. that you contributed a house for bumfeld is incidental. it is entirely fair for anyone to critique any work that is put out there for the public. that is the rule of the universe. you post your stuff on the forum, and you talk about it on the forum. you open your work to criticism. i make forum drama. you are free to critique it.
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read my blog
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-22-2005 18:08
I thought you made something besides? (I would have given you a good, though honest, review anyway, as I'm sure whatever you turned your hand to would be very nice. ) And OH I am so excited! My friend Zeboc Bigwig sent me a Christmas gift in the mail, and you would not believe it! I just opened it and discovered - get this - an angel just like the ones I made in my set! He made it, only in real, and it is ADORABLE! I will treasure it forever! Can you believe it? Thinking back, I believe I may have mentioned to him that I wished I could just take the angels out of the monitor and place them on my own real-life table. Now I can! Isn't he wonderful? As soon as I get a chance I will take a picture and post it on the Gallery! I'm afraid Zeboc has already blown everybody else out of the water for this Christmas, the family can just forget ever topping this gift! hehe Zeboc is quite the most wonderful guy, I just lurve him! coco |
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Sean Martin
Yesnomaybe.
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 584
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12-23-2005 07:16
Let me get this straight. People here want to give up their right to own something they spend hard work on? In other words taking away a persons copyright on something they created? Does that not violate international as well as the US copyright protection laws? Because LL is based in the USA last I heard. Even then a copyright is a copyright even in other nations. Those that are civilized anyway. Quoted from Copyright.gov:Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following:Copyright basics at www.copyright.gov As far as I know LL recongnizes this law in the TOS. If they had not done so in the first place, then most people, who can actually build something to look decent, would not be here to even bother with SL. Creativity has better rewards elsewhere as it stands. Addition: Unless we are talking about this section of "Fair use" that can be applied if an artical is written about a product in a newspaper or such. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-23-2005 07:46
From: Sean Martin Let me get this straight. People here want to give up their right to own something they spend hard work on? In other words taking away a persons copyright on something they created? Does that not violate international as well as the US copyright protection laws? Because LL is based in the USA last I heard. Even then a copyright is a copyright even in other nations. Those that are civilized anyway. Quoted from Copyright.gov: Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following: Copyright basics at www.copyright.gov As far as I know LL recongnizes this law in the TOS. If they had not done so in the first place, then most people, who can actually build something to look decent, would not be here to even bother with SL. Creativity has better rewards elsewhere as it stands. Addition: Unless we are talking about this section of "Fair use" that can be applied if an artical is written about a product in a newspaper or such. You've made the mistake of taking this thread seriously, Sean, which has wasted your time. The thread was made to mock me. Check (on page 3 now) the thread I started entitled, "Down with the Ratings System in Classified" or something like that (it is now on page 3). You don't have the read the whole dismal flamefest thread - just skip to the last post and you will be clued in. coco |
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Sean Martin
Yesnomaybe.
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 584
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12-23-2005 07:49
From: Cocoanut Koala You've made the mistake of taking this thread seriously, Sean, which has wasted your time.
The thread was made to mock me. Check (on page 3 now) the thread I started entitled, "Down with the Ratings System in Classified" or something like that (it is now on page 3). You don't have the read the whole dismal flamefest thread - just skip to the last post and you will be clued in.
coco LOL woops  |
