Never mind Torley - did you see the new announcement?

Wooha, and strangly Torrid seems the better sister. Are you sure she was the one in the basement?

It built character.

The terms "hold my leash" and "crusade for this change" do present a negative and personal picture in contrast to the more impersonal point of view that these people are responding to a request for volunteers made by LL. They won't doing anything more than has been done before with the abuse report button. There is one difference, added transparency in that you didn't know who reported you and, from what others have said, you weren't even sure exactly which post was the point of contention.

We still won't know who reported us, since AR will still go to the Lindens, according to Robin, which implies anyone will be able to submit them for review, and LL will still act on them.

The only change I see happening with this is that a select few residents will now be able to move a thread they don't like so that Jeska has to review whether they were deserving of the shut-down. Having seen residents step into threads and ask people to stop talking about the topic, I dread to think that these same people will actually have the power to force people to stop talking about it, by moving the thread.

And as you demonstrated with your response to Siggy's post, many posters don't even comprehend what someone is talking about, and yet still feel the need to jump to some strange conclusion and respond anyway. These are our new forum mods.

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding.

We have a winner. That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Six months ago the scenario you described would bother me. Now I just find the prospect of the ensuing drama delicious.

Bring on the resident douc-- er, moderators!

Exactly! Because we had two girls, less than 3 years apart, lots of people (including the girls) had the idea that everything should always be equal. But that's never true, even if the kids are identical twins! Everyone has different needs, and it all equals out in the end.

coco <---- now returning you to your regularly scheduled thread

OK, something someone said up there made me think I'd misunderstood some of this. So let me take it piece by piece:

- Will not be anonymous – will use their Second Life account

Good, but only if we receive a full list, before this starts, of exactly who our policemen are. Otherwise, I don't know who to be scared of, who not to piss off, and who to treat with kid gloves.

- Will participate in shaping the overall tone and values of the forum and forum community

They're going to shape us. Help us establish our values and take the right tone.
Yes. Let's all have the good values and tone. And let them be the ones the Lindens want us to have. Gag me with a SPOON.

- Call out positive threads where there is constructive, thought provoking, and interesting discussion

OK, we can't decide on this for ourselves, so they are going to make it clear which threads we are supposed to consider constructive, thought-provoking, and interesting discussion. Maybe they could send one or two people to my house, too, to sit on my television set and call out those positive programs they think I should watch. Or maybe they could station someone as the food police in my kitchen, and have that person gesture wildly at the yogurt every time I open the refrigerator door, while shaking their head sadly if I glance at the cake.

- Identify when threads start heading in the 'bad' direction, point it out the community "this is getting off-topic/personally attacking/etc,” and diffuse potential problems

OK, I have no particular problem with this. (Though the resident moderators may.)

- Help remind community of the Forum Guidelines and Community Standards

OK, I guess this just means coming along and pasting in one version or another of "Just a gentle reminder," as Jeska usually does. No problem with that really.

- Use the voting system to call out good threads, with the new system only Resident Moderators and Lindens will be able to vote on threads

This has got to be THE most nauseatingly obnoxious thing I have ever read having to do with any forums anywhere. As if "shaping" us weren't bad enough, they actually have the gall to star-rate those threads FOR us.

Take away the stars altogether if you want to, fine (I wish they would in classifieds) - but to reserve them only for the superior resident moderators and Lindens so that we fools can be told what we are supposed to like and dislike - well, don't make me laugh. I imagine, for example, this post of mine would likely get one star, if it were a thread of its own, don't you think? Oh wait - you're not SUPPOSED to think.

- Will be able to move threads to the appropriate forum or a “moderation queue” forum for review by Linden Lab (the moderation queue will be reviewed several times a day by Linden Lab staff)

To appropriate forum, fine. That hasn't been done very well anyway a lot of the time, so I can't imagine it could be any worse, and could help.

"Moderation queue" - I thought this just meant they would take those threads which had received a lot of AR's, or which really seemed too hot to handle, and send them to the cornfield area they keep for threads which disappear totally until they are reviewed.

Or - does it just mean all things which have been AR'd are automatically brought to the Lindens attention, even though the thread/posts still sit there? That seems possible.

Or - does it mean, as someone implied above - that the resident mods will actually be bringing THEIR OWN IDEAS of bad threads or posts to the Linden Lab staff? In other words, on top of what everybody AR's anyway, part of their job will be to find MORE things to report? If so, that would be unfortunate.

- Resident Moderators will not be able to close threads.

Good.

- Resident Moderators will be randomly assigned to two different Discussion Forums for moderation, and will only have moderation privileges in those forums

Fine.

- At least for the near term, posts reported by the “Report this Post” button will still go to Linden Lab staff for review

Not good. This essentially suggests that after the "near term," the resident mods will not even have to go through the LL staff before they pass out those warnings, suspensions, and bans. This means that unpaid staff of LL - fellow residents like the rest of us - will actually be able to see to it that individuals are banned from the forums, as well as banned from playing SL, and all their virtual goods confiscated.

-------

None of this would be that big a deal, really, if these residents weren't being given power to remove individuals from SL entirely. Giving other residents power people from the forums is bad enough, but allowing them to throw people out of the game is even worse.

And I don't care if six moderators at a time have to AGREE to slap down another poster with a warning or a suspension or a ban. There is no particular safety in that. And I don't care if it has to pass through a Linden ultimately. If mods decide they want someone gone, the Lindens - having "hired" them - will likely listen.

We already know there are plenty among those who have volunteered for the position who have not been shy in the past about who they would prefer not to hear in the forums ever again, and some of those even consider the game would be better off entirely without those people. And I'm not even thinking necessarily of any particular people (such as myself) you might think I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of things said about other residents, too.

I could possibly see having this system IF getting suspended or banned from the forums didn't automatically mean being suspended or banned from the game itself. There were resident mods on Stratics for TSO, but they did NOT have any power to affect your game, much less take it away from you permanently.

coco

Excellent points Coco. I too question this and how it will be implemented.

Honestly one serious thing keeps repeating in my thoughts; "What if AvatarX becomes a Mod, since there is personal posting history with Avatar X will they give me a fair chance or will I be fighting an uphill battle"

Are we culling the communities ability to honestly write out their opinions. Or is this a move to comfort the masses so they can post without fear of retributions?

Time will tell.

Of course.

There's a good reason why they toss out jury members who already have some sort of relationship with the defendant or plaintiff.

coco

I have to say, this was not my experience when I was a Live Helper in the slightest.

Cocoanut,

Nowhere in the announcement does it say anything about resident moderators being able to give warnings, yet you have some how parlayed this into the ability to get people banned on a whim. Where are you getting this from?

I haven't "somehow parlayed" anything into ANYTHING. If you read my post, you'll note that I said I didn't know what that meant.

Prior to that, I said that SOMEBODY ELSE said something on this thread leading me to believe I had read it wrong.

Then I gave all the ways I knew how of reading it.

Read my post - and read the announcement. You will see what they said, and you will see what I have thought about what they said, and where. And where it is that I don't know what they mean. My interpretation about what this means.

So kindly don't accuse me of trying to "parlay" something into something as if I were a devious, underhanded, scheming, and nontrustworthy individual. I don't appreciate being cast in that light.

I have not parlayed anything into anything. If you have some better idea of what all this means, I have already invited you to give your interpretation. I don't recall inviting you to make nasty insinuations.

coco

From the infinite continuum of drama where this delightful plan was hatched.

If you think this is fun, just wait until implementation of the plan.

Cocoanut,

I don't know what is with your hostility, or claims that you didn't say something, but here we go all over again. I am not accusing you of anything - I am seeing your posts stating that resident moderators will be able to suspend/ban people, and asking how you came to that conclusion considering there is nothing at all in the announcement about that. For you to take no statement about any ability to warn or ban and make repeated statements about warning and bans is parlaying it into something more than it is. You are casting yourself in your own light - my using the word parlay did not say anything about you being devious, untrustworthy, etc... - you made those up all on your own so don't attribute them to me.

I just reread it 5 times and saw NOTHING to suggest they can 'ban players'

They can't even close threads.. only move innapropriate ones..

To be honest - the criteria seems pretty strict, none of the major 'net nannys' or 'one business people' nor the 'yah yah I will rulez ur 2ndLif3' crowd seem to be in any position to become moderators - nearly every single one has been warned or given a lil time out for a few days.

Don't get me wrong - I still don't really like the idea - but spreading F.U.D isn't helping either.

From THIS part, Cristiano:

- At least for the near term, posts reported by the “Report this Post” button will still go to Linden Lab staff for review

Let me restate it: "At least for the near term" - as in, not yet will this change - "posts reported by the 'Report this Post' button" - as in whenever anybody reports a post - "will still go" - as in, as they now go - "to Linden Lab staff for review" - as opposed to anywhere else. Now where else might that be?

Possibly to the resident mods? "At least for the near term" this will not happen; AR's will "still" be reviewed by LL staff.

Does this not sound different to you from: "At no time will the resident mods ever be left on their own to review AR's?"

coco

Why didn't you just state this when he asked where you were getting it from, instead of trying to make his post look like a personal attack against you?

This is why residents should not be moderators.

At least for the near term, we will be using Havoc 1.

In other words, Aimee doesn't like a good tongue lashing.

au contraire

Let's hope that's what they mean.

coco

See, you could have simply answered without all the histrionics and indignation. Thank you also for explaining what in the near term means, how posts get reported, and where they go - so helpful of you. I take the statement to mean that ultimately resident moderators will be the front line reviewing the deluge of posts that get reported all the time with the Report this Post button (which I imagine is a considerable time suck for LL since many people are quite-warn happy over the stupidest things) to filter out reports that require no action or moderation without rising to the level of an infraction. If the posts are considered actionable by the moderators, then they would be submitted to LL for consideration.

Now I suppose all kinds of conspiracy theories can be attributed to that process as well ("the resident moderators will only report those people they don't like", but if anything I think it will contribute to more even moderation of the forums. I am sure they will put strict guidelines in place for resident moderators. and will hopefully make this new process more transparent than the current one which is frustratingly obtuse.

Well you know Cristiano if you understood what I was saying and you actually took the Linden statement to mean that "ultimately resident moderators will be the front line reviewing the deluge of posts that get reported all the time with the Report this Post button to filter out reports that require no action or moderation without rising to the lefl of an infaction" and you further speculated that "if the posts are considered actionable by the moderators, then they would be submitted to LL for consideration"

then WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO. Then I could have pondered that and discussed.

It is absolutely not necessary for you to sequester your actual thoughts about the topic and state instead that "Nowhere in the announcement does it say anything about resident moderators being able to give warnings" not to mention saying "yet you have some how parlayed this into the ability to get people banned on a whim"

when you knew all along where I was getting it from, and just had another view and explanation of it. And I never said anything about "on a whim" so you just threw that in there to be even more provocative.

You could have said how you interpreted this, and then discussed it with me, OR you could put it all in the worst way possible and suggest that I am deliberately manipulating things and devious or I'm stupid, one way or another.

So don't tell me not to get hostile when you don't even SAY your own ideas but instead just attack me for my interpretation of it.

Next time, try discussing the actual ideas that I am trying to discuss instead of just suggesting that I am "parlaying" things out of nowhere when it is right there for any reasoning person to see and question.

And now you decide throw in "conspiracy theories". Oh yeah? As if this set-up isn't totally rife with potential problems and everybody knows it? Oh, not only am I "parlaying" things, I'm also now imagining conspiracies. Very good, Cristiano.

I talked about this earlier tonight at Simball with some friends who are mods, and they don't like the sound of it either, and consider the consequences very harsh for violating board rules here in the first place, not to mention how problematic it becomes when you give players that power.

But - let's just not actually discuss that, Cristiano. Instead let's talk about people "parlaying" things and having "conspiracy theories." I guess I'll just have to have my discussions about how boards work - like I have ALWAYS had them for the past several years - with my friends who run the boards at TSO and SWG.

Somehow they see these potential problems as I do, and so I guess we are ALL just parlaying stuff and investing in conspiracy theories to even talk about it, so just everybody, remember Cristiano is right: It's all in my head.

coco