Drama around Views program - Maybe just a big misunderstanding?

Well, then for Pete's sake, Cristiano, if people aren't opposed to an application process, why don't they just say somewhere, at SOME POINT, "yes, it would be good if there were an application process?"

I have come up with lots of reasons why it is better to have an application process (if, indeed, they must single out residents for special privileges). Had these same people (who were never the focus of my criticism whatsoever, except secondarily, as an afterthought, insofar as they started attacking my person and integrity) been picked by application, yes, they would be in the same exact position of supposed power, and no, I'm not fond of that idea.

But if it must be, then at least make it available to all.

You will remember that I railed against the group given the ... I forget now whatever it was that was given, something huge, maybe it was Wells Fargo. The group turned out to be Bedazzled. I didn't even know who the group was when I was criticizing that process!

People later said, well, the group was Bedazzled. That was irrelevant; I was opposed to the process. I remained opposed to the process even through all the things that were said against me for that - including a Bedazzled representative coming on 2/3rds of the way through the thread or so, to announce that they were very hurt to have been attacked in by me!

And you will note that ever since LL instituted the Developer's Directory, you haven't heard a peep out of me about which people are doing what of the jobs like that. Not one peep.

Do I think that human relationships now have nothing to do with LL's choices, or their recommendations to outside companies? Of course not.

The difference is, now anyone can apply for consideration. So no one has any room to squawk, unless it came to light the the whole exercise was just so much window-dressing, which I don't think it is, and there is no evidence that it is.

And now, to get to your next post.

coco

Thank you for that, Cristiano. And I have taken your advice and tried a somewhat more diplomatic and less despairing tack on Robin's blog; taking into account also Surreal's advice (I believe it was her) on making a more formal presentation, with an eye to stressing how opening up the process would benefit LL more.

A couple of more points. These ideas of mine are not in themselves incendiary in the slightest. I think those who act like they are far-out or unacceptable ideas are really the ones who are out of touch with the mainstream.

Point two: Those who tell me this is a "private business" and "they can do what they want" cut no mustard with me. Of course they can do what they want. But I don't think this, for instance, is the right way to go about doing something.

SL isn't a closed office, with employees inside making a product others outside will buy in a store and go home and use up.

LL employees make a world others actually live in. And have businesses in. That is an altogether different thing. That is why Philip once (at least once) called it a country. We are a country compared, to, say "users" of Oscar Mayer lunchmeats. We are customer-citizens, whether people like that or not. And we should be at least ostensibly equal.

And finally - I absolutely do not get how you can sit there and still continue to tell me that I am maligning other residents.

For the third time: I could not possibly be maligning residents chosen by LL for this or any other special opportunity, privilege, or perk, because I myself was such a resident (though I declined the offer), and I'm certainly not in the business of maligning myself.

I am criticizing the process. Unfortunately, everyone gets in their traditional flap at the mere mention of FIC, but that is exactly what this is creating, whether or not the Lindens intend it that way (and I don't believe they do).

And by the way, any FIC there ever was or will be was always and ONLY created by the Lindens, though not from any mal-intent whatsoever. It has never been the residents' fault, in my view, and the Lindens never intended anything bad about by it, in my view. But it has been a mistake, and an unnecessary and rather constant one, reaching its apex here (I hope).

And certainly there could be no possible "conspiracy" involved, in that these people didn't even KNOW they were going to be chosen. Just as I was not "conspiring" with the Lindens to have a business opportunity handed to me. I disagreed with the process, and that required no maligning or attacking of myself to do so.

This is all I'm going to say on this topic for now; I've already talked way too much.

coco

P.S. Isablan, I wrote just such a summary myself a day or two ago, of this whole thing and the way it usually goes, for a private group I'm in. You would be amazed if you read it. It's just as funny - but coming from a different angle, lol.

I addressed coco because I believe it to be true in her case. I have an extensive knowledge of her body of postings and nothing in this thread is changing my mind.

If you're wearing the shoe... well it wasn't cut with you in mind. *shrug*

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree. My opinion has been formed over time based on all her postings taken together.

Sorry to post again, but I missed this post earlier.

I forgot that point, and I didn't elaborate on it much earlier, because I was still thinking about it. I think it is true that you would get these types of people, but I also think it is true that lots of the people they will get anyway are these types of people, AND that these types of people are not necessarily bad or would make bad choices for this advisory board.

In any case, I think those people could be culled out, if deemed problematic, as easily as they can be culled out now. After all, I'm not talking about a message of the day to go out in the game, but a message to be put under the Linden forum Announcements.

People may well get angry and cry foul if they perceive that all the choices are people they could have predicted LL would choose anyway. But the same could be said (on a smaller scale) for those selected to the DD program.

I think people get much more exercised over never having been given a chance than they are to get upset over the final selection, however pre-selected they may appear.

Moreover, as I pointed out, they were going to have a "random" pick anyway (which they apparently didn't do). This would add the element of more average-joeness into it without actually having to swoop down on some unsuspecting random Joe who is only interested in canoodling in his skybox with his girlfriend.

As for your last question, well, I would hope they would put in the open application process, and now is the time to say that. I mean, it's not like they asked us beforehand, and it's not like they aren't going ahead with it now as it is anyway. But maybe they will open it up for application - or SOMETHING - for the later groups.

coco

You are right, we both are entitled to our opinions, and they may differ. My opinion has also been formed over time based not only on her forum postings here, but by actually knowing her in world as well. I don't think that anyone's forum postings tell the sum total about who they are or what their motivations are - no one is that black and white. I recognize why some people would view it as jealousy, in the end, the only person who knows Cocoanut's motivations would be Cocoanut.

OK.. this thread has gone round and round the same worn out ruts that the last one did. The arguments are merely being volumously restated with more and more self-justifications. The entertainment factor is pretty much gone.

Surreal has left the building...

OK.. this thread has gone round and round the same worn out ruts that the last one did. The arguments are merely being volumously restated with more and more self-justifications. The entertainment factor is pretty much gone.

Surreal has left the building...

Hm... I think you underestimate how deceptively appealing people can make themselves. I was a hiring manager for a number of years. I can't say how many thousands of resumes I went through for what eventually turned out to be nearly 100 jobs positions during that time. Even with shrewd vetting, reference checking, cross interviews... you still end up with people capable of deceiving even the best judges of character. If there's something of value they're after, people will find a way to con their way to it.



It'll still boil down to one of three competitions:
1) Hand picking (aka Nepotism) (application process or not),
2) Nominations and Voting, (aka Popularity Contest) or
3) or a flat random lottery.

1) guarantees LL gets people that they think will be best suited
2) will favor major socialites
3) will favor very casual players and, perhaps, people with *many* alts.

I think your preference for an application process would only weed out those that were too busy focused on doing what they do, and not staying abreast of the announcmenets forum.

The major argument against your point seems to be merely semantics about when the application process begins. In my opinion it's more like:

"By registering your account you have become a citizen of SecondLife... All citizens are welcome to advise Linden Lab on policies, featuers and any aspect of SecondLife. Welcome and please use the many feedback channels available to you to help us shape what SecondLife will become: Forums, Feature Proposals, bug reports, IMs and email to Linden staff, etc..."

Well, it would be nice then if she would stop with the "I think that you think..." crap. But we've been down that road so many times - what's not ok for others to do is usually ok for Coco.

It's like when she gets all upset if someone mentions her and Prokofy in the same sentence, but then does it to others, like she did to Surreal and I a few posts back. Speaking of which, I have no clue what that was supposed to mean. Can you explain it to me Coco? It's not like Surreal and I are in here tag-teaming on you.

Bingo.

SL is the application, in and of itself.

Excellent points, Jopsy, and they precisely sum up why I think Coco's objections to this program and the process being used are misguided and ultimately destructive. I hope LL sticks to their guns and doesn't let themselves get pressured into turning something that has the potential to be very beneficial into an ineffective exercise in coddling and PR.

Bah this damn forum, it took forever to finally be able to get the page to respond. As I have said, I disagree pretty strongly with Cocoanut, and I have never been shy about calling her on things. I just think ZOMG YER JUST JELOZE is too easy of an explanation for what has been a pretty consistent campaign by Cocoanut on this issue for a long time. There are others I would certainly attribute petty jealousy to - you see them crop up in a thread just to say something contrary (you in particular know exactly who I mean), I just don't see Cocoanut as being one of those people. Whatever other things she may do, I just don't see her as jealous of others.

Where is IT said they need to have the "best interest of the whole at heart"

This is a group of people Linden labs believes can help them make there business better and they want to use them for just that purpose.

this has absolutely nothing to do with you me or any one else IT IS ALL ABOUT LINDEN LABS TAPING A RESOURSE OF INFORMATION TO HELP THEM (LINDEN LABS) MAKE THERE BUSNESS BETTER.

WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR ANY ONE TO SEE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEA!! me neither the only term that comes to mind for me when i think of some people is A$$HOLE.... well fu@&tard too and smacktard ahhh shit and a whole bunch i cant even mention in these forums

It is because only Lewis Nerd's opinions are representative of the majority, and only he knows how best for LL to run their system. Everyone else is just biased and do not have the interests of everyone in mind. Thank heaven for Lewis.

Simple. Because some of us have experiences with LL that have led us to believe that LL does not run their business in such a logical manner. I for one am firmly convinced very little of what LL does is from a business perspective, and that a lot of 'business decisions' are made with a heavy dose of private interests and buddy-factor tossed in the mix.

Not all things are black and white...especially when LL has historically shown they're usually somewhere deep in the purple (royal purple) color swatch.


- Newfie

oh come on now PULEASE LOL

If it were open to applications LL would still just chose whoever they want anyway.
So why bother. Not that i think this would be a bad thing, I don't. I truly believe LL has done the correct thing here and has chosen people they think can make there platform a better one.

I Truly hope That LL would not surcome to the views of a very TINY portion of the community that disagree with the views program.

Of that I am sure. LL doesn't have a history of listening to those outside the range of their nose, so...not likely that they'd change that at this point.

- Newfie

*SLAPS FOREHEAD* I for got that part my bad

OH yea my bad then I wonder where the exponential growth has come from
Must of been all those bad business decisions they made.

By definition, that would make it a MMO... A Massive Multi-person Offline event.

I just read all 18 pages.

Given Coco's previous behavior in 10,000+ posts, this thread is just another broken record skipping incessantly on her turntable of her crusade to denegrate people who are not on her friends list.

It's clearly, a veiled attack against eight outstanding residents and Linden Lab.

It should be locked.

I would agree, except that you're mistaking the OP with the squeekiest wheel.

The thread started out as a genuine topic, then declined into the usual crying.