Drama around Views program - Maybe just a big misunderstanding?

Hi, Coco, I am very sorry, when you feel insulted by any of my words.

Would you please be so kind to clarify in which of my posts you found the sentences which made you feel insulted. I am not aware of any cases where I attacked the positions taken up by you. I would really like to understand what exactly it was that I said that you took to mean you.

No one has come up with any reasons? You've just paraphrased four people have given. I guess you mean, no reasons you are willing to accept. I feel they have some weight.

Why do we all need to have a shot at this? Where does the imperative for equality come from?

Thank you, Pham, I'll do that later when I have more time and send them to you in a PM. I appreciate your willingness to discuss this with me.

coco

Oh I see, and you're doing those who were picked some kind of favor by denigrating them, accusing them of being part of some old boys network, downplaying their accomplishments, and just generally trashing them as good choices for this program? Despite that they should owe you something?

I think I get it now. Everything is ok as long as we are not doing it. Why didn't I think of this earlier?

Well I for one don't believe you. Actions speak much louder.

It was an action. And not an easy one.

Say what you will, Surreal and Nolan. You gotta admit, I put my money where my mouth is.

coco

I am very happy that Pham are one of the ones that will fly to SF.. I know he is well chosen - that he can what he writes about - and are a gentleman - he are also well educated and know a lot about marketing as well as cyber (meta)..

He are a ten at a scale of ten - the only bad thing I can write about him are that he are a bit shy plus to much seeking the more than perfect things.. always perfect things so nothing are 100% great as he always search for 110%... Maybe its better than when i get 95% and are happy as... xxxxxx - who knows...

I wish AL the group AL best and happy days in SF.. that are a lovely city to!

IF I was not into girls I have for sure made a.. hm.. sorry.. Deir..

/Tina

Haven't done a bit of that, Chip.

coco

Can I get this in context please? What did you do and how was money involved?

Yes, your actions contradict your words quite loudly.

Like I said, if you insist on seeing me as bashing those chosen (as well as myself), rather than the process, there's little I can do about that.

coco

He's referring to your FIC claims, Coco. And you have most assuredly done all he describes. It's quite nauseating.

If you will note the sheer number of people who say they see it that way, then perhaps you will understand that, intended or not, that's how you're coming off. As a professional writer, surely you know that's how communications work.

And do you think me the same, Surreal? Am I also talking out of jealousy, or am I lumped in the "must be a liar and a thief" category?

Dont let the last three years of you knowing me directly have any influence on your opinion now, that'll make things harder to dismiss.

- Newfie

The point is not that it would be horrible to have an application process. What people have been pushing back against is you making a capital case out of them not having one. People are not fighting against having an application process, they are fighting against people screaming bloody murder because they didn't. You also have not come up with any solid reasons why the way this group was chosen is so horrible. You have only made speculative comments about goverment, privilege, undue influence, etc. Yet, ironically, had they been picked by application, they would be in the exact same position of supposed power you are so adamantly rallying against. The exact same statement you made can easily be turned around upon you. You have failed to show what is so earth shatteringly awful about how it was handled this time. As for whether they must have the "thing" at all, that is for LL to decide - it is something they want, and is their company, why shouldn't they?

You bashed them from the moment you started a thread with the pejorative "The Chosen Ones", as if they are now LL's little playthings that divinely rule over us all. Whatever your intent, the result has been very different. You know what they say about intentions.

I stopped reading this thread on page 2, it gave me a headache... anyone want to do a short summary??

I actually do think jealousy is not the motivation behind the stand that Cocoanut takes on this kind of stuff. Her protests actually do not ring of jealousy at all, but nonetheless I do not agree with the stance she always takes. While the ideal has merit, the method of delivery leaves a lot to be desired. It started with Bedazzle and has carried on through to the Chosen Ones. In the process of rallying for what she feels is a fair process, she ends up maligning anyone who has been offered an opportunity out of merit, which is a mistake, and where I disagree so strongly with her. Ultimately it is about perspective, I suppose. I will say she is definitely consistent, for whatever that is worth.

I just think there are far more productive and less destructive ways to bring about the kind of sea change she hopes for. Running to the forums and using incendiary posts does nothing but turns people into lightning rods for their particular stance, instead of being able to see the issue from all sides. That is a shame, because what you end up with are hurt feelings and further polarization, instead of bringing people together and making things better.

Near as I can tell:

Basic Plot:
LL has selected 8 residents for the first of what will be several focus-group-type of get togethers to chat about SL. Other residents will be selected for upcoming get togethers.

Group 1 (let's call them the Jets) are angry about the whole idea, a few of this group are actually peeved because someone other than them is getting the ear of LL.

Group 2 (let's call them the Sharks) has taken umbrage at the attacks and overall opinions of Group 1 and launched a counter attack.

Act I = lots of knives, guns, insults set amidst songs from Devo and Social D

At the end of Act I the thread is finally locked after 500 some-odd posts of "the usual."

Act II = starts out rather nicely with some peacemaking and thoughtful posts but quickly dissolves into another knife fight between many of the surviving Jets and Sharks members from Act I. Expect this thread to be locked at any time, to be followed shortly by: Act III.

lmfao
oks o I didn't miss much thanks for the recap!

This is a masterful summary!!!

All things considered ... may I respectfully suggest that you keep it handy? It sums up quite well a number of recent forum encounters. I suspect it will be equally handy in the future.

This is not a focus group get-together.

This is not a focus group, no matter how much you may want to think of it as a focus group, or a series of focus groups.

It is a permanent resident advisory committee.

From Robin's blog:

It is intended to "include residents as partners in shaping the world we all inhabit . . .

"give the participants some power and responsibility for shaping and leading it . . .

"to initiate ideas and contribute to the social and technological decisions that underlie the foundation of their world, further blurring the line between user and producer . . ."

In addition to features such as the forums, the feature voting tool, and meetings in-world, it is intended to be a next step:

"to start face to face, real life meetings and design discussions."

There will be a series of meetings at Linden Lab, including 8 residents in each, "chosen based on their participation in Second Life's community."

They will be brought to San Francisco for a day to meet with LL staff "to discuss feature design and policy."

And, "Each group of eight Residents will then become part of a larger advisory group."

That is no focus group, and no series of focus groups. It is a handpicked advisory group that will be added onto with each group of eight, and maintained permanently.

It will give those residents "power and responsibility for shaping and leading the world." It will allow that group of residents "to initiate ideas and contribute to social and technological decisions." It will attempt to "blur the line" between those residents and LL.

And I do mean those residents. Those particular, chosen residents.

coco

And it's something we've all had a chance to be selected for, since we all participate in SL's community.

There's your application process, open to each and every resident.... your Second Life, and what you've chosen to do with it.

Well, you did omit my point about the application process being a magnet for highly motivated and convincing people seeking to promote their own self-serving interests... or just trying get something to brag about (or a free trip).

(Either you reluctantly agreed that that 'could' be a problem.. or you were agreeing that my non-over-thinking was a problem. Your response was a little ambiguous. )


And yes. I AM concerned about who gets onto the advisory board.



I also think that an application process is just as likely to make people angry and cry fowl, if the selection process is still just as arbitrary. "Why waste our time and effort with filling out applications if LL already knows who they're going to pick?" (true or not, there will still be those that voice that point just as loudly).


Likewise, I am concerned that rampant nay-saying and poison pen posts may undermine and discredit what could otherwise be a very helpful and productive process.


Mostly... I'm just disappointed that some folks have to harp on and on about the negative point. If this is a doomed program it will fail and vanish into the mists of history and solve the problem that way. If there are worthwhile benefits it might have a chance of continuing.


Ultimately... which do you think is more effective at changing people's minds? Trying to stop someone before they make a mistake... or letting them make the mistake so they can learn from it? (not that I think the secondlife views program is a mistake, of course)


--
Those that seek to positions of influence shouldn't be trusted to hold them.