Drama around Views program - Maybe just a big misunderstanding?

They wouldn't dare. They can't handle the truth.

Lewis

A word of advice for those of you chosen to attend SL Views. If they ask you about what projects you're working on or have plans for, don't tell them! Or, at least be completely vague and about them and omit details. Oh yeah, you should also get LL to sign a non-compete, non-disclose agreement.

Live and learn.

Yes, the wiki thing is excellent and immense help but it's not quite what i asked about ^.^; was hoping for some neat in-world applications of these programming abilities.. but oh well.

Yes because Lord knows that only Lewis knows what is right for SL and exactly how it should be run. Everyone else be damned.

Hi again, Pham,

Sometimes I wonder why we're bothering to "keep in topic" here, since nobody else feels so constrained But my stubborness is legendary...

Indeed. I would make some comments on that, but that would derail this otherwise interesting discussion even more...

The more I read your words, the more I'm rather convinced that I had a totally different idea on what the SL Views programme is supposed to be. "Big misunderstanding" on my part!

So it seems, Pham. They are indeed assumptions and interpretations, sadly based on my few related experiences in RL. They apparently do not apply in this case.

I'll await them eagerly, and I mean it! I wonder if suggestions are welcome at this point, or if it's too late for that...

No no — those are proposals, based upon what Advisory Boards usually do. One does not advise "in a vacuum". You get specialists and market analysts on Advisory Boards. They'll bring their input based on their own opinions, which are formulated according to a process of information retrieval. This process can be more or less organised; those were suggestions for a certain (possible) type of organisation.

Let me give a counter-example. Almost a year ago, Robin tried to get the Community Team Roundtable to work as a "forum" for gathering input regarding the Events. The only item in the agenda was that — "let's talk about the agenda". During a first meeting, it was felt that the best way to address the issue was to split the whole lot of residents wishing to bring input forward in smaller groups ("commitees" to deal with every aspect related to events (that we managed to remember at the time, of course). Committees had a "team leader", and there was an "overall team leader" (Flipper volunteered for that). Although the end result was not particularly effective (for several reasons), the concept was about the same: let's get the residents' opinion on X, and they naturally self-organised during that process. Robin did not have to lead any of us by the hand; she trusts us to be responsible citizens in a virtual world, and adult and mature enough to be able to figure out a form of providing better input to LL. Well, at least some of us are, at least

And another example. When input was required regarding the new group tools, Robin and her team distributed people willing to give input on those through several "commitees", letting them participate according to a schedule and a model which was the result of some discussions among residents and LL employees. So, again, no "hand-holding" — all it takes from LL's part is the willingness to hear (which they indeed have, no matter how much people try to prove otherwise — usually by quoting their own example). The only sad part in this case is that the transcripts of those meetings were not made public (or, if they were, I never found out where they were posted, not surprisingly, since it's almost impossible to find anything in the forums...).

Based on those examples — I'm sure there have been several more, of which I never heard — I naturally assumed that the "Second Views Programme" could be a similar model of gathering resident input. I'm not claiming that it is based on a similar model, or that I'm interpreting it to be something similar to what has been done before. It would be just a natural evolution of the same models that have been applied in the past — even assuming that results were mixed in the past. Actually, I think that the major failure of those past attempts was a difficulty understanding what was required of the resident participation (ie. the degree of organisation they were expected to show), although most would have agreed on what was required by Linden Lab ("get together with the residents, and listen to US!".

I've naturally assumed that "Second Views" would be a refinement of those models of input gathering, and brought to the next, logical stage — the Advisory Board, representing the views of all residents. But with real representation — that means, getting to know what the residents think, and forwarding those thoughts to Linden Lab, in face-to-face meetings with them.

It now seems that I have missed the mark entirely So how should one interpret the purpose of the Second Views programme then?

Totally so, I'm Robin's #1 fan (and I guess she knows it). I'm truly convinced that the way for Second Life to go forward is to get rid of the silly notion of "favouritism" and accepting slowly that Linden Lab's resources are far too thinly stretched to be able to cover everything. But there are a quarter of a million hands willing to help! Embracing all those willing volunteers is, in my opinion, always a smart move.

So perhaps the first step in this process is just to have nice chats with a group of residents, and toss some ideas around, and that's all it is. And perhaps the next stage, the "advisory board", will become something else. Personally I can only wait in expectation of what that "something else" is going to be, and hopefully there is open-mindedness and willingness to listen to suggestions. Actually, Robin never failed to meet (and most often surpass!) all my personal expectations, and I'm rather confident that this will be the case once more.

They are the Chosen Ones, Cristiano.

coco

Think about it: No one blindly parroting anyone else could possibly write as much, as often, and as lucidly, on so many sites, as I have about this issue, who didn't also feel strongly - and independently - about it. (And prior to ever meeting the other individual, by the way.)

coco

So, now you're just rubbing it in folk's faces now? Be damned his point?

Flipper, you're better than this.

coco

Already done - I suggested what I consider a better way (if such a thing must be done) on Robin's blog.

coco

Mommy spank!!

I'll leave it to someone with more time tonight to search and pull up all the quotes that make this a Pot - Kettle.

They are not the "Chosen Ones".

They are the "chosen ones".

As a writer, you know exactly what you are doing there.

I think you missed the part about "is aligned with LL's goals." They obviously don't agree with you. *shrug*

Frankly, if I wanted to get LL moving in a particular direction I would e-mail the appropriate Linden with a well researched business case showing them how it would benefit their bottom line. That takes a lot of work though. And since it doesn't get any public notice, I can see why it's not attractive to you.

OK... I'm headed out for the night. Besides, this horse is a zombie.

*checks pantry and finds no popcorn left for FIC threads*

Seriously, this is getting too old for a forum lurker like me too. zOMg prim baby rip-off threads are far more constructive IMO.
I sincerely hope Maxis will release The Sims Online 2 soon so that those who insist everyone should be treated equally regardless of commitment, contribution and talent can immigrate back --- but then I hear they invite randomly chosen players who contribute as content creators or community site admins to off-line conventions. *sighs*

I've actually seen some really cool and definitely supernatural devices lately, built by one Makaio Stygian. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be blabbing about them, so I won't attempt to describe. Still, they are out there.

Sadly, the impressive powers LSL grants tend to be frowned upon by the Lindens, which is why the only ones I sell at the moment are honestly pretty subtle. (Also, for those who are curious, that's my product, Move, she's talking about -- and there is a free demo, at least. Version 2.0 coming soon!)

That's just lame coco.

The SLCC will be huge and Massive also

Really, I think this really is a case of, "Thou doest protest too much."

We have here the most obvious case of an official feted inner core anyone could dream up in a million years. What many of you thought was a nonsensical notion is now a full-blown and official reality staring you in the face.

In fact, I've never heard of anything similar anywhere (for obvious reasons).

Not only does it include the feting, and the inner core, it also:

. is permanent in nature
. is composed entirely by Linden favor
. is not an opportunity anyone can apply for
. gives a handful of select residents more power, perks, and influence than other residents, and a hugely disproportionate say in the future of SL.

This is worse than a feted inner core; it is essentially a government. The government we were promised would never be, but worse - an appointed one, not an elected one.

It would be better if you just said, yeah, it's an official FIC all right, but I like it, and I want them to keep doing things this way. (Which will in fact likely be the LL response: "You have a point, and thank you for your imput, but we would prefer to do it this way."

If they would PAY theise people, I wouldn't be bothered by it. Then they would be Linden employees, and not an elite class of special residents given more than perks, privileges, and opportunities than other residents are.

At the store today, I decided we are all getting totally crazed about this. Those of you ripping me a new one over this, and accusing me of "attacking a group of people," plus a lot of absurd personal insults, have long since lost the ability to be rational about it.

At the same time (I thought as I pushed my buggy down the aisle), it is quite likely that I, too, much as I hate to admit it, have lost my ability to think rationally about your side of it, and how it feeels to you, or even to continue to think and discuss it rationally much longer.

But once again: The fact of the matter is this isn't your fault, and this isn't my fault, whether or not you or I are invited to this shindig. It is not about me, or you, or any of the people who were selected.

One doesn't have to even THINK about the "group of people" they choose, for this, or for anything else. It is the process which is bad. In this case, it is LL that is creating an official FIC, with their chosen ones, and there is really no other way of putting it. It simply is what is happening.

I know most of y'all would love to be chosen, and certainly would love to have any other perk or privilege LL sends your way because they have noticed you and like your work. I know that would be very hard to turn down.

I also know it is no fun to have someone raining on your parade, particularly when you don't see anything wrong with the process to begin with.

But you should be able to see my point of view without all this hyperbole, hysteria, and personal attacks. I don't think these things - particularly not one as important and far-reaching as this one - should just be bestowed on select residents.

My point of view is that this action makes a mockery of any notion of "a world" that Philip ever had. A decent world, that is; not one out of King Arthur's court.

This isn't the only solution to LL's problems, and it certainly is no way to empower any but a few hand-picked residents, and certainly doesn't allow us to run our own world.

coco

Very astute, Panda. You are exactly correct.

coco

I went to the pantry and found there were no /words/ left!!!

All the good ones were gone, already used up.

On a different note, I didn't realize that assumptions and pressumptions and inferences could be strung together on rubber bands!!!

You missed my entire point, and even you are aware of the pejorative nature of what you are saying, so I don't know why you are playing these semantic games, you are also better than that. Were they chosen by LL to be the first group of panelists? Yes. You are not referring to them as that, though - you are negatively referring to them with that label because you don't like the process. That's fine, but at least own up to it. This is not some pseudo-religious nonsense where people are the "Chosen Ones". That is just plain stupid and inflammatory, and you know exactly what you are doing.

Each person on that list is a regular SL resident whose views are no more or less indicative of the SL population as whole than anyone else's. No one ever said they were representing all of us. They do have a voice and views that are important. Your views are too, so are mine. However, I'm not ranting and raving and claiming people were handed sometthing on a platter, a favorite insult of yours. If you were rewarded with something, I would never say that about you, but you constantly talk about all the perks and special privileges others receive. So what if they get a free trip to SF and taken out to dinner and someone else doesn't. So what if Linden Lab will ask them what they think about things. Each of us is free to contact them with our views. I do it all the time, you certainly can too.

If Linden Lab decided they wanted to choose members of the community that they felt had shown whatever qualities they were looking for, that is their own choice to make. You do not get to run their business, no matter how hard you try. The only thing signing up for SL guarantees you is that you can sign into SL.

No one's view is so amazingly diverse that it can't possibly be represented. I know you and several others like to pattern yourself as standing outside of the group think, but newsflash, you are no different - no better and no worse. You don't think differently. There are not "people like you" - you are just you, I am just me, etc.

I applaud Linden Lab for taking another avenue to receive input. Whether it will work for them remains to be seen. You act like they have been appointed to the fucking board of directors and that we will all suddenly be subject to them. Get a grip - this is so much ado about absolutely nothing.

OMG! Some people have been asked to participate in a focus group! Run for your lives! The end is nigh! No doubt we'll all have chips installed in our brains while we're sleeping and these new feted elite will be given remote controls to make us dance around like fools and touch ourselves inappropriately in public while they point at us and laugh! Do you not see what's going on here? Wake up people! You tell 'em Coco. Some day when we're all enslaved you'll be vindicated.

This is all complete and utter hyperbole. Please explain to me what the power, perks and influence are. Name exactly what they are. Be specific, show exact evidence. Also, please show evidence that they will have a hugely disproportiante say on the future of SL. You are just projecting. It is not a government, this group of people has no power. They are a focus group, companies use them all the time. There are myriad ways to communicate with LL on different issues. Do you really think they are only going to take into account what this group has to say and that is it? What in the hell are you so afraid of that you are spreading all this FUD before the meeting has even happened. You aren't going to derail it, nor should you be able to.

Sorry I haven't gotten around to your previous post, really, or this one, as I haven't had time today to give them the thought your posts merit.

But to answer why I think this is not a "so what" sort of thing, I will quote you from Robin's blog (bolding mine):

---------
Announcing Second Life Views

I think we'll all agree when thinking about Second Life that what began as entertainment has become a development platform supporting creativity, social interaction and entrepreneurship.

The question then, for us at Linden Lab as designers of the platform, is how to include Second Life Residents as partners in shaping the world we all inhabit. Residents actively contribute to the creation of Second Life with the vast variety of content which enriches the grid, along with meaningful experiences, culture and entertainment and smaller communities that add depth and color to the world.

Clearly it's important that we provide tools and methods for bringing this active user base into the decision-making process for long term development and feature design. When you're creating a world with an eye toward real economic value and a sustainable culture you must give the participants some power and responsibility for shaping and leading it.
In other words, we believe Second Life Residents need to be able to initiate ideas and contribute to the social and technological decisions that underlie the foundation of their world, further blurring the line between user and producer. We've been collecting these ideas and feedback through forums, in particular 'Feature Feedback', the Feature Voting Tool, and in-world meetings.

The next step is to start face to face, real life meetings and design discussions.

The Second Life Views program will be a series of meetings at Linden Lab. There'll be eight Residents included in each meeting, chosen based on their participation in Second Life's community, as well as at least one in each group chosen at random. The Residents will be brought to San Francisco for a day to meet with Linden Lab staff to discuss feature design and policy. Each group of eight Residents will then become part of a larger advisory group.

The first Views meeting will be held on June 30.

-----

Now, I don't know how this reads to you, but to me it reads: Eight at a time, we are going to bring people we choose to San Francisco and put them in an advisory group which will take part in the decision-making process for long-term development and feature design.

This will not, of course, even scratch the surface of the active user base of residents actively contributing to the creation of Second Life.

Mainly, though, it does not "give the participants power and responsibility for shaping and leading" the world. It gives a few, select participants power and responsibility, and appoints the "leaders" for the rest of us.

I understand what they are trying to do, and I understand they want to improve discourse, and give people a say in how things go. But I disagree entirely with the way they are going about it.

coco

P.S. No, this is no focus group.