Drama around Views program - Maybe just a big misunderstanding?

I find this statement to be outrageous.

Truly, truly, truly outrageous.






Whoa!








Jem (Jem), the music's contagious (outrageous)

Jem is my name, no one else is the same Jem is my name!

Its not the objections to SL Views program itself that are bad or garnering criticism. Its the manner in which the fingers are pointed at the residents selected in the usual FIC paranoid fashion. Who knows what will come from the SL Views program, but the continual slagging of everyone chosen or considered is where the ideas of jealousy and compulsive cynicism are coming from.

It may not be a good idea for us in the short term. It may be a good idea for LL in the long term. I take it LL wouldn't be going through the expense and trouble if it wasn't somehow logically good for them. And maybe, in a way, what benefits LL, benefits us, down the line. (Though I suppose this depends on LL's ultimate intentions.)


But we don't know the details on that.

In any society - and this place is it's own society - you're going to have celebrity.

What makes celebrity in SL is an odd thing... You can work hard in the community for years and still be seen as a newbie; or you can do one thing and be lauded for eternity.

Though I'm not sure what kind of society SL is, it certainly isn't a meritocracy.

But, then, I suppose to the public at large, celebrity based on merit is pretty boring. "The public gets what the public wants", and I'm not so incredibly unsure that the residency doesn't *enjoy* this hysteria.

In a way, it gives people a "cause".

You're slipping. WHERE IS THE JEM PICTURE?

Panda, tell us. Has anything changed here since you left a year ago?




















fic

Weird... the picture is showing up for me.

The only thing that has changed is that you got a skin!







fic

Hi Pham,

I don't really have any fish to fry here over this issue as I couldn't go even if I wanted to and wouldn't apply to be one of the people even if they were inclined to select me, but I have to point out your post here makes not much sense.

I agree that there is almost nothing that could be said that would not elicit the same (mostly negative) drama, but your argument as to what the group is or isn't is full of holes. You seem to be trying to say out of one side of your mouth that the group is a focus group and thus essentially just another group of customers that LL is asking for feedback, yet at the same time you mention aspects of the program and quotes from the Lindens themselves that talk about these people "initiating ideas" and contributing to the actual creation of the game or features of the game.

Clearly, if you read what the Lindens actually wrote about this (some of which you quote in your post) and if you re-read your own description with an unbiased and critical eye, you can see that this group *will* have some "influence" and *does* go beyond being merely a focus group or one of the may other types of scenarios you allude to in cases where companies regularly get feedback from their customers.

As I said, I don't really care about this as I think the company and the game are now so far astray from what I they originally advertised themselves as, or what I personally thought they could be, or what their potential might be, that it really just doesn't matter that much anymore. I have seen two or three suggestions that I have made taken up and integrated into the game (without credit or notice ), and am happy to have contributed to that degree. Like many however, I have mostly found that making suggestions for change to LL when you are not part of the "in-crowd" is an exercise in futility.

Perhaps taking suggestions only from a small group of friends and insiders is the only real way they can do it, I don't know.

I do know that to suggest as you are, that this is just a normal focus group or to suggest as LL does, that any citizen can put forward an idea that will be considered is just false IMO. Technically, yes. Functionally, not so much.

They operated in this same way in the old days (asking friends and insiders who play the game for advice and help), and despite all the hoo-ha mechanisms for eliciting player input they talk about, they haven't really put much effort into making them work. (The voting system only received one update that I know of in it's entire history. That's like a half a days work by one LL employee.) Now they are falling back on the tried and true by simply getting a small group of "good players" in a room and asking them for help. I don't think as a company they really know what to do beyond that.

I guarantee you that the first speech you here when you sit down in that room will contain the words "we need your help" in the first paragraph.

Dianne,

Would you expect a focus group to go there, shut up all the time, look pretty and listen to LL's ideas only?

When you are included in a focus group you ARE supposed to give ideas. The company then decides what to take and leave. You are just a small panel that they use to discuss their own experience of the game. Everybody is aware that this is just a personal point of view. Further groups could bring different views.

It's LL's game. If they think that, in addition to other feedback and suggestion mechanisms, they could benefit from holding sessions with small focus groups, why not? I'm not sure exactly what they will get from it, but if they find the exercise worthwhile, sure the speech can start with a "we need your help". They are certainly not flying them there just to say Hi and give them a tour of the place.

Wendel

Congrats to those who were chosen!

I didn't read the "Chosen" thread, because a) it was too long and I am too lazy and b) I figured some people would let out their disappointments there.

I can understand that there are some who are concerned about what the Views means for the game in general, but.. none of us control what Linden's do, FIC/FOC, whatever. If could influence their chosing, then they wouldn't need the Views to influence the whole game... they'd already have a direct tap.

I am content to wait and see what happens. So, good luck to you, Pham and the rest! Have fun! Send postcards!

That is hilarious.

I don't particularly care and I am not jealous (have fun folks, SF is wonderful), but I sense beyond the few folks who regularly twist any and all LL activity as sinister that people feel like their concerns are currently not being addressed by LL and would like to see other possibilities for interaction. Granted I have only seen a few alternative options offered, but that is usually the way with the complaint department.

There could be a perception that those loudly claiming there are many and sundry ways to communicate with LL are not the regular joes who don't seem to be able to get responses. It is a fact that some things get lost in the whirl of messages. I imagine it is easier for some Linden to remember to respond to Siggy than it is remember to contact Jack Sprat. Now, given another chance (in theory, of course nobody really thought about what 7/8 hand selected residents actually meant) they have once again been left hanging. Some folks do not feel the love.

Of course, this does not make the whole endeavor a negative thing, but people are wary. The fact that the cheering section dons the high-hat while responding to the usual naysayers does not make people with these perceptions feel any better. I don't really blame them.

It will blow over like so much else and we can all gnash our teeth over something else.

I'm actually imagining that as a primmy hologram of some female coming out of the "love machine," a-la Star Wars 1 (Ep 3) style.

"Perceptions" is the key word here. And I don't think "doning the high-hat" is an accurate description of why some people are thinking this is a good thing. Personally, I just can't really see anything wrong with having more communication between LL and it's customers.

This is a bit OT (okay, a lot OT), but Pham, is your name inspired by the character of Pham Nuwen in Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep"? I've been wanting to ask that ever since I first saw your name. If so, three thumbs up!

I welcome our Pham Neutra & Gang of Eight Overlords.

Just kidding!! Don't pummel me.

Seriously, congratulations to you and the others going to SF. It should be very interesting and I hope we will get some feedback on what your experiences were.

Also, thank you very much for your lucid post. You laid out the reality beautifully and clearly. You get my vote (if I had one) simply for clear writing and reasoning.

But that is the whole idea of a focus group or of an advisory council, Dianne - just not in the simplistic way that the participants are asked what they want, tell it and then this feature is implemented; especially not, when you are gathering more than one focus group.

I can't see that I denied the fact, that such a group can have some "influence". What would be the purpose of it, if Linden Lab did not expect to get some valuable information out of the process? Please reread:I just stated my opionion that it makes no sense to create such a group out of a quasi-democratic selection process or expect them to act as a kind of representative assembly. Doing a "survey" is not the purpose of this vehicle of market research.

I am not against the focus group as an idea.

I have been involved in (on both sides) many many focus groups however, and by the description, this just doesn't sound like one to me. They could literally run a thousand focus groups, in-world in less time and at less cost (including employee wages) than this one single effort. This is not a focus group. I am not against it necessarily, I just don't think its a focus group. It's more than that.

To be constructive, my assessment would be that what is needed here is more of a structural response. The company as a whole needs to re-orient itself and restructure to face the new challenges posed by the rapid growth of the platform. They are seemingly not doing that and they don't even seem to have it "on the table."

The idea of the voting system and the feedback forum are good examples of changes in company structure that would facilitate a pipeline of the necessary information needed to address the concerns that the customers have and to solve the problems and bugs in the software and in the social engineering of the game (such as still exists).

While someone was bright enough to think of these ideas, no one has actually followed through with them. The voting system was put in place and then virtually never touched ever after. The Feature feedback forum seems to be a place where people post a lot of ideas, but you never get any feedback in return. Not only isn't there a dialogue, rarely do they ever even comment. Similarly there is the technical issues forum where you can post long detailed issues you have with the client that seemingly drop into obscurity. Someone *may* have received your idea, and they *may* be working on it, who knows.

Bottom line, it's a company with very little internal structure, few rules and no one really "managing" anything.

All the workers are wonderful well-meaning intelligent folks empowered to act alone and as great as that is for the employees, its a key weakness in terms of the management of the operation. The UI team for example is full of good ideas (and some bad ones) and they just implement them on a whim as they see fit with no actual idea of what the people who build in the game want or need. Feedback on building tools has never in my memory encouraged the UI team to make a single change or go back on any one of their creative little decisions. Again, there is no dialogue there, just a small group of individuals that think they know the "best" way to do things, even in the face of yards of intelligent, well-informed criticism on the forums. Only once in recent memory has anyone from the UI team even ventured onto the forums to defend one of the changes.

This is why LL prefers this kind of small group of "cool kids" to talk to. They don't have the organisational structure to handle anything else. They are still stuck in that "small software company" mode where they feel if they can get the developers to sit down in a small room with a small group of players, they can get somewhere. This may be true if all you want to do is address the concerns of that small group. It may be a good way to get your developers to focussed on things beyond their own belly buttons for a short period of time. As a response to the kind of problems plaguing SecondLife it is really not a good solution though.

An organisation of this size and complexity needs a solid reliable management structure and needs to be strongly guided by policy and (dirty word!) "rules." Until they do that, they are always going to be plagued by this hazy-fazy slipshod kind of response to problems where one hand is never in sync with the other. They will continue to generate tons of great ideas and continue to not really ever follow through on any them.

My opinion only of course

Yes, perceptions. And the description is not a description of why they think it is positive, it is a description of the manner in which they communicate it.

It is ... because this book is my all time favourit. Vinge is an incredibly talented painter of a galactic tapestry.

I am not as daring as the "real" Pham in "A Fire ...", though, far from it. And I am not nearly as machiavellistic as the Pham of the prequel "A Deepness in the Sky". I liked the tragic aspects of this character and his ability "to see the light" - even if it took him some time.

Your assessment might be true, Dianne - at least in its description of some symptoms, that I can see too. I am very critical with some aspects of the platform and its development process. I don't feel qualified to judge that as harshly as you do, though, as I don't know nearly enough of the internal operations of the company.

Just one little thing: If they were looking for "cools kids", they certainly made a huge mistake by inviting me. I am anything but "cool" and the days of my youth are long since gone.

Well in that case I give you my hearty endorsement! Great book. I just finished devouring it last week.

What I meant about perception was, since all we know is that LL intends to sit down and chat with these 8 people and nothing negative has happened, I can only assume that if someone's perception of the situation is negative, then they are glass half empty sort of people.

Doning the high hat is unavoidable when you're trying to point out how silly someone is being.

I'd like to add that especially on the forum I tend to speak my mind rather plainly and set out arguments so as to be as unassailable as possible. This sometimes comes across more harshly than I am meaning and I am not such a meanie in person.

So no offense intended and please don't take my sometimes strident remarks as anything other than me trying to cover off all possible counter arguments. I'm not really trying to squash debate or close off anyones opinions. I am just really opinionated, I like debating, and I don't know when to shut up sometimes.

I also know no more about the internal workings of LL than I have heard or been able to figure out through the last year or so of playing the game, talking to them and reading their policies, so of course I could be wrong.

Yes, yes and yes.

People are so sensitive and insensitive, though, and it just fuels the fire of insanity.

You persist in taking this personally regardless of what I have said.

You did nothing wrong. LL is, in my opinion, using the entirely wrong process.

I would prefer they use a process where interested parties, including you, could apply for it. Then they can choose you.

But if you insist on taking it personally - which basically amounts to taking credit/blame for a decision LL made, and a process they designed - then I really can't do anything about it.

YOU did not design this program. You were simply chosen for it. I could have been chosen for it. That wouldn't make me responsible for it, or make me bad because of it.

It is LL that keeps creating feted inner cores like this one; not you, and not me. It is no reflection on either you or me that they have done so.

It is, in my opinion, their mistake; not yours, and not mine.

coco

Very perceptive

That is SO going on my blog tonight!