The New "Help Island"

Read my post before playing the word game with me.

I don't have any "agenda" aka desire to plug my own business when I'm Live Helping. And I am sure there are other live helpers, greetors and mentors like me. And assuming we do, is insulting.

Thank you ! I save my plugs for Cartel spam!

With all due respect Vivianne, virtually everytime something like this comes up, Coco cries "UNFAIR", and insinuates things about "older players".

For Pete's sake, a while back Schwanson Schlegel and Cua Curie were setting up a private sim to help newbies, and they wanted to limit which new players were eligible by avatar age (just as are some other LL run programs for new players). Coco complained at length about that too. She simply assumed that LL would favor the private project, and funnel newbies to it, because some older players were involved in it. A privately funded project that was voluntary for those who wished to utilize it, and she stuck her nose in and criticized it at length, and made all sorts of insinuations.

This complaining about this new island is apparently just another example of her extreme distrust for some older players, even though the various volunteer groups are made up of mostly non-older players. There simply isn't that many of us around anymore. Certainly not enough to run a volunteer group "agenda" even if we wanted to.

This is really all about the politics of a few folks who are convinced that they know how to run SL better than LL. They believe that the older players will try to make the newbies buy their products. They believe that there is a good old boys network which has undue influence over LL, and are afraid that "new blood" will be indoctrinated into it. "It" being the "FIC". As I said - politics. That is the really sad part in this, that some folks have to make new players pawns in their petty political games.

I'll stick with Webster's definition not yours.

"Assuming we do." versus seeing the potential. Your choice of words. Refuse any input that doesn't further the fight.

The forum word game.

Okay, if you want to completely ignore the context and of how it was said, that's fine. But you're missing the point totally as well. I'll stick to reading the thread and responding to what people post.

this thread is like a bad car wreck. it's disgusting, and makes me feel bad, but i just can't stop looking at it. would you guys just agree to disagree or something and save the rest of us from what have become petty arguments. please.

I don't get it actually.

1. Why wouldn't anyone want some of the newer players to have an equal amount of 'good experiences'?

2. Why is this being considered yet 'another' FIC thing in the first place, when alls anybody wants to do is help out?

I don't see this as unfair actually. When I head to the WA. Most know about how my lifestyle is, however, if someone asks, I tell them, if they don't I don't. It's pretty simple really. But, others however when I go there and see what all is going on, I see it as kind of shoving it in my face, that I don't want. That actually is what I'd call unfair.

Ya know, if everyone got an equal chance to actually learn what Second Life is about and give them time to figure out what they want to do, this place would be much grander.

I'd rather much see the current WA turned into a Town Center or something, at least it would still be a public gathering place, also it can be a choice for newbies to go to, to visit, but if I knew what went on there when I first joined, that's not what my place of choice would be.

Viviane, we had a great chat last night and I encourage you to read through a few of these threads for some history on this subject....

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New Help Island > Newbies will be on it > Mentors will be on it > Mentors have an agenda > It's an "unfair set-up"...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this line of thought and where it's headed.

Why in the world would anyone not want people who volunteer free time to help new players to be involved in this?

Since when was volunteering an ignoble thing?

Why would anyone not trust people who volunteer to help newbies unless they thought said volunteers had an agenda that was undesirable?

Why would one even need to mention the word "agenda" otherwise?

If we all have agendas simply by virtue of existing, why bring it up?

I think some folks are being a bit obtuse, and ignoring the reality that the anti-sentiment here is driven by politically motivated distrust.

Okay, I'm packin' up my nest and moving to this island. It sounds like it'll certainly have a less immature gang of twits, and that folks there won't mind getting told Hi, and Welcome to SL, How's ya? and all that, receiving a friendly wing-hug and chatting for a moment where they can be warned of what's to come in the world and told "Remember, they thrive on verbal abuse, just mute them and be done with it, don't take the bait."

Well, I can't quite /move/ there, but who's to say I can't just join the greeters and never leave there (except to build), and experience the peace and calmness that is Utopia?

Sign me up.

Nolan, it is most helpful of you to point out that I was against the plan individuals had for a private island for the same purpose, where anyone older than 30 days and not in the approved group of teachers would be summarily kicked off. This plan isn't as bad.

But to suggest that I am trying to make new players "pawns" to take part in my "petty political games" both insults the new players who just MAY be able to think on their own, and me, insinuating that my points of view are nothing but "petty political games." Whereas your points of view, of course, are not.

Let me try it this way: Everything I have said applies to me, too. Let's say I applied to be a mentor. I would probably be accepted. I wouldn't want ME on a private island with all the newbies.

I don't like it. Is there something about that people just can't grasp? Does it have to be a totally nefarious thing? Either one agrees this is a great plan or one is an hysterical, shrill, petty-politics-playing, etc., person?

Can't one just hate the idea of having all the newbies funneled into the mentors hands? Can't one present their reasons for why (fairly obvious ones) and not get accused of these horrible things?

Can't someone who disagrees voice their opinion without having you, Nolan, come in to clue in everybody that they aren't "supposed" to agree with that person, or they are just pawns? Give me a break.

coco

You can. But the fact you prefer newbies to be funneled into the hands of Welcome Area morons is a little telling about your own "agenda," neh?

So it was implied earlier. You know me pretty well, though, Enabran, surely you don't think I am in favor of griefing? Or running off new players? I said earlier that I hate the griefers in the Welcome Areas.

As I also said earlier, the best, most obvious, and probably cheapest solution is to enforce the Guidelines with the morons in the Welcome Areas, not segregate the areas.

coco

No, you're not in favor of that. But where you see two evils, you'll choose the evil that you think doesn't begin with F and end with C. Even if you're completely misreading the eyechart.

You know, you act like I can't think. Or that I haven't thought all my life. Or that I haven't had these same views all my life. You can call it what you like, but I've always been opposed to this sort of thing. Always, Enabran.

I am suggesting that a different remedy for the evils of the Welcome Area would be preferable to its isolation: Enforcement of the rules.

coco

So wait until problems happen and then punish, as opposed to heading it off altogether? The new players still get subjected to crap with your best, obvious, and cheap solution. Not to mention, the Lindens do have limited resources - patrolling the new player area religiously to keep problems from happening is not necessarily feasible. However, you have volunteers willing to help that far outnumber the available LL resources.

As a mentor,instructor (though inactive) and former Live Helper, I resent your repeated statements about the volunteer groups. The vast majority of people in these programs are selfless and there to genuinely help. Instead of grousing about them so much, try actually doing something like joining Live Help, Greeters, or Mentors. Are they perfect? Nope, they are human beings. If you have a complaint about an indivudal mentor, then address it to Jeska. Don't insult the entire group. I would certainly place a lot trust and stock in people who repeatedly give of themselves to help (which is an exceptionally thankless job, as your posts illustrate) above someone who is there to funnel newbies into land "classes" with convenient rental properties to show them.

We are not guaranteed access to residents from the second they enter SL - that is nowhere in the TOS you cling to for dear life. If Linden Lab decides they entrust a group of residents who have earned that trust through hard work to help with this island, that is their right to do so, and there is absolutely nothing unfair about it.

Duh. We all know this is the obvious solution. The Lindens have decided they do not wish to enforce guidelines, respond to AR's and IM's about situation or ban/suspend the individuals involved. So, given that Lindens have made this decision (and if you don't like the decision, bitch at the Lindens, not those of us trying to help solve the problems with the meager tools we have) what is YOUR solution to creating a safe, welcoming place for new residents?

You could entrust the Girl Scouts to have the job of welcoming newcomers to the United States out there alone on Ellis Island and I still wouldn't like it.

I can BE a Girl Scout, have been a Girl Scout, could BE a mentor, have been a welcomer, and I would STILL feel it shouldn't be conducted behind closed doors.

That is in no way an insult to mentors or volunteers of any stripe, though if you insist on seeing it that way, I can't deter you. Being against the Girl Scouts welcoming all newcomers to the U.S. isn't a slur on the Girl Scouts. It is being against the system of allowing the Girl Scouts to be the only ones to process the newcomers.

You're really barking up the wrong tree when you are trying to make this a "Coco is against volunteers" thing, believe me, you are.

My best, obvious and cheapest solution has never been implemented, Cristiano.

Isablan, I am not "bitching" at you. I am giving my opinion. I think the Lindens might disagree with you when you said they have "decided they do not wish to enforce guidelines."

This plan was apparently discussed between the mentors and the Lindens, and all of those agreed it was a great idea.

Now you are hearing from someone who ISN'T a Linden or a mentor and I think it is a bad idea. I would think so even if I were a mentor.

Yes, they can certainly do this. In fact, they can do anything they please. They can segregate people any way they like, in the hopes that it will improve SL. And I can certainly say I think it's a lousy idea. And you can certainly decide that "Coco hates volunteers" if you like.

Nonetheless, it is my opinion.

I, too, would like to solve the problem. The way to do that is to enforce the guidelines in the Welcome Areas if nowhere else, not make a sanitary playground for mentors and newbies.

And by the way, what has gotten lost in all this is a point I made earlier: What ABOUT these classes? What about the people now getting $500 to offer classes on the event posting? Are we supposed to do this ourselves, or is the whole area of classes and newbie places that specialize in helping newbies and whatnot going to be basically co-opted by this "Help Island," like so many other things are getting co-opted into "official' channels?

Looks to me like they are.

coco

Having just engaged in a PM with someone else on this subject, I also have this to add:

How about they make a Help Island but don't close it to anyone.

Now I know, that is just moving it, but moving it might really be all it takes!

You would have the whole thing in one place, instead of spread out over several Welcome Areas. The welcome areas could then be renamed "Community Centers," as someone already suggested, which would be good since we don't have any community centers.

The very newness of it would also help to make it easier to enforce the Guidelines there. A Linden or three or four could make it very clear that any sort of nonsense there would lead to instant discipline. And then follow up on it. The fact that it would be all new, and not already places of habit, would help that work.

Then it could be open to everyone, including older players who might want to see what is going on (never underestimate that drive) or who could use some refresher courses themselves.

Could be a very nice place, even though open to everyone. Possibly even BECAUSE of being open to everyone, think of that.

coco

So creating another WA and posting 4 Lindens there? Umm, they got better things to do.

Mentors can enforce themselves just fine.

You don't have to post Lindens there. From what I have read in this thread and elsewhere, mentors report people and appeal to Lindens who are online, and yet the Lindens do nothing.

If they had a whole new fresh area and a new outlook, maybe they would do something.

coco

Where on earth did you get this ? All YOU have to do is JOIN the instructors group and YOU too can get the paltry $500L for performing a class. *bangs head*

That won't do anything to change anything. Asshats will be asshats.

The deal is done.

The mentors and greeters will be the only one's permitted.

Get with it or over it.

It's just amazing how adamantly some people will fight for the right to maintain the absolute stupidity that goes on in the WA.

It's announced that there may be an island where these ingrates can't access newcomers, and the response is people who are *incredulous* at the idea. Volunteers who WANT to help (Not advertise, by the way) will get first crack at the newbies rather than the bare-assed baboons that have taken over the Welcome Area.

Agenda? -- I've been a Mentor since LONG before I had a successful business in SL. And honestly, I don't *NEED* to use a handful of Mentor experiences as advertisement.

My AGENDA is that I'm tired of the WA filtering OUT decent people and welcoming with -open arms- the jackasses who participate in the same stupidity that festers there.

Yeah yeah I know. My idea of fun isn't the same as their idea of fun and I shouldn't cast judgement.

You know what? All of the goddamn funny sounds have already been played. All of the stupid repetitive squatting animations have already been looped. And a deformed ultra-skinny or ultra-fat grotesque, bald, half naked av with eyes askew and all makeup sliders on max is *NOT ORIGINAL OR FUNNY ANYMORE*.

.. A bunch of people who just DO NOT know when a joke is old, and have a depth of wit shallower than most puddles.

It's time for a new era around here. For everyone who thinks that "badger badger badger" is STILL HILARIOUS, there are OTHER MMO's that will welcome you with open arms.