It was recently announced at a meeting with Jeska Linden that a new island is currently being built that new residents would teleport to immediately after Orientation Island.
This so called "Help Island" would be a central location that new residents could go to get help with all aspects of beginning Second Life. One of the the motivations behind its creation, as I understand it, is to have new residents bypass the Welcome Area.
"Help Island" would be acessable to brand new residents, Liasons, Mentors, and Greeters ONLY. When I mentioned this fact to some of the regulars who spend a great deal of time in the WA, they were outraged. They mentioned that while even though they do play audio clips or "have a little fun" from time to time, that they help so many new residents on a daily basis, more than most Greeters and Mentors, they feel that even more new residents will end up lost and confused.
So what are your opinions? Is it unfair for LL to exclude any willing resident who wants to help from being able to reach this island? Is the Welcome Area just so bad that LL was forced into taking such an action? Are those who spend a majority of their in-world time in the WA correct when they say that even more new residents will end up not having any clue whats going on?
I am interested to hear the communities thoughts on this subject.
Thank you.
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ReallyRick Metropolitan
Yes it's really me.
Join date: 4 Jun 2005
Posts: 691
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10-15-2005 16:29
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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10-15-2005 16:48
I don't have a problem with them creating a more friendly environment for newbies. They can always have a link to the WA (wouldn't be a WA anymore though, would it lol), from the island. But then, they could just close off the WA to all but mentors/liasons etc. Linden Lab has a right to protect the first experiences their users undergo.
BUT what LL really needs to do is have a help island available to ALL residents, regardless of age, with things like: - organized display of documentation and links to forum and wiki -- with improved FAQ answers on things like land issues, permissions etc from what we have now - landmarks to external key resources like ivory tower (which might just move to this island) - exercises for learning how to use the camera, building tools, particles, etc. - a PG sandbox Given their resource and cost constraints, LL could easily get volunteers help to build this out. But it's nuts that LL doesn't do more to make it easier for their customers to use their own product. _____________________
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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10-15-2005 16:51
I would think of the "Help Island" as an intermediary bridge between the Orientation Island and the socalled mainland. Maybe a little sign saying something to the effect of:
"If this isn't right for you, hurry along, but if you want someone to hold your hand, stay." I envision "Help Island" as sort of a waiting room before bursting into the world of Second Life. Kind of a mood-preparer, like in a doctor's office where you are hopefully calmed down before going in for your examination. Just a pleasant environment. I wouldn't say it should be totally silent, but repeated sound loops can be sensorily disorienting to someone fresh who already has so much learning to do. (One can always hear them LATER, but spoil someone's first impression and one is scrooed!) And furthermore, perhaps the word "unfair" isn't quite accurate because the qualifications for applying to be a volunteer give a pretty wide berth. Anyone who REALLY wants to help in Help Island, should apply (click this link to go to the right page)! Those who are really willing to give their time, will also be likely to show their initiative and declare their status instead of yammering on with excuses. Have something to show for it. Note of personal significance: I am currently in no Linden-recognized volunteer groups. I realize my crazy style of help is likely to overwhelm new Resis, and thus, although I enjoy being helpful here on the SL Forums and inworld, I keep this in mind. I would be okeydoke with not getting to "Help Island" for this reason. One Q is, where's it mentioned only Mentors and Greeters from the volunteer programme will be allowed? How about Live Helpers and Instructors? _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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10-15-2005 16:53
Is there any record of exactly what was said?
Why "build a new place"? Why not alter the properties of the existing place? Why not relocate the three Orientation Island adjacent to each other and allow access to them by the volunteer groups? OI is bypassable at present, is this also? Where will new user's home locations be? Will there ever be a no-cost, EASY EASY EASY option for landless people to chose to set their home locations in either a PG or M location so the two groups can get out of each others way? Of course Linden has the right to do what they want with their property. If they want to make an area where only employees, n00bs, and volunteers go that is their business. But is this real or just another Havoc 2? _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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10-15-2005 16:57
This sounds like a great idea to me and may do a lot to help increase player retention during those first critical hours of discovery.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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10-15-2005 16:57
Is there any record of exactly what was said? Source of some of it. Still tentative and theoretical... _____________________
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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10-15-2005 17:03
I think this is a good thing. Though, a Help Island I don't think is the right way of going about it. More restrictive on the 'attendies' on who can go and who cannot, would do just as good. If this is the case, we should beable to be invited to the Orientation area, or an 'extention of it' those of us who choose to help out.
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billy Madison
www.SLAuctions.com
Join date: 6 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,175
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10-15-2005 17:06
It doesnt fully bother me they are adding another island to the learning chain but some thigns do pop into my mind.. there are alot of mentors now days..*goes into story telling mode* I remember when i first became a mentor over a year ago, it seemed ALOT more rules you had to follow.. and just because you got the tag didnt mean you got to keep it.. they had requirements and if they even heard talk of you doing bad things you were removed as a mentor.. now days it seems that if you send in an app you are instantly granted mentorship (i dont say this to knock any of the mentors) But my point is this.. there are some shady mentors sadly, and what if its restricted to just them on the island which would cut down on the number of random people standing around..so.. basically all it would take is for you to get a mentor tag.. go to this island, talk them into getting first land and selling it to you etc.. sounds like a profitable bussiness.. dont think im just over paranoid.. i do know some people that were mentors long ago that used their tag to sway others, maybe it will not be as bad since the mentor requirements have seriously become lax and watered down?
short and sweet: But i just think that restriction is a bad thing in general..would reduce the amount of people that might over hear these things (yes i know that people can talk in im) and shoot up the b.s flag and save a newbie from getting ripped. damn look at that.. a whole block of shit..bad punctuation etc to boot.. yay go billy. _____________________
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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10-15-2005 17:12
The WA has long been a hyperactive chatroom... not necessarily the best place to be dropped off at after the rather light tutorial, ESPECIALLY if you're not of the social type.
Keep in mind there are a lot of very shy people coming into SL, and some of them might not want 40 avatars screaming and running around in front of them as their first impression of SL. This is a Good Thing. LF _____________________
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ReallyRick Metropolitan
Yes it's really me.
Join date: 4 Jun 2005
Posts: 691
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10-15-2005 17:12
One Q is, where's it mentioned only Mentors and Greeters from the volunteer programme will be allowed? How about Live Helpers and Instructors? This creation of the island was revealed to us by Jeska Linden during a Greeter meeting earlier this week. And for clarification, while I cannot remember if Live Helpers and Instructors were mentioned, I wouldn't see why they would not be granted access. _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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10-15-2005 17:12
Here's the pertinent section of the text from that link from Jeska's post:
You: The next thing I wanted to touch base about is this idea we've been kicking around for a Help Island... it'd be a gathering place for in-world tutorials.... You: and volunteers would each have a space on the island to help people / hold classes / meet those who need help / etc. Till Stirling: Good idea Nightspy Rebus: i don't think i have a copy You: I'm still very much in the intitial planning stage, but I wanted to know if you, the Live Helpers had any ideas of how you'd want to use such a space. Vortex Saito: Want a copy ?? Nightspy Rebus: yes plrease Nightspy Rebus: please You: I've got one too if you need it Nightspy Rebus: thanks FlipperPA Peregrine: Wups, many copies  Till Stirling: The first was the kiosk Till Stirling: These are the cards themselve Till Stirling: Hmmm Till Stirling: I will think about it Jeska Possibility: Live Help Island? Nightspy Rebus: I think a live-help island is a personal dream I had with my former education group Nightspy Rebus: we hoped to make an island as a kind of sl university Vortex Saito: Oh what did want to ask is there a way to not let the teleport time out ?? Nightspy Rebus: that woudl be helpful for new members and an easy way to share user's expreicnes with eachother Vortex Saito: Because I have sometimes during a session that I think, it's better to go there You: Right, it could be easy to direct someone to go to "Help Island" Till Stirling: I agree Vortex, the TP timeout sucks Nightspy Rebus: maybe it should be connected to the mainland You: Do you think that'd be easier? You: It could be located anywhere.. Nightspy Rebus: yes personaly i think everything should be reachable by flight You: I'll put that in my notes FlipperPA Peregrine: Well, here's my two cents... You: I'll post something about this in the forums, so the LHers can brainstorm a bit about this. I'm very curious about your ideas. FlipperPA Peregrine: Luna doesn't get used any more FlipperPA Peregrine: Give us Luna FlipperPA Peregrine: or Dore. FlipperPA Peregrine: I think a mainland presence near the welcome area will make it useful. FlipperPA Peregrine: Currently, there's really not spot like stage 4 that's useful for classes Till Stirling: Good idea Nightspy Rebus: that would be a perfect place for it FlipperPA Peregrine: There's also nothing but empty space AROUND the welcome area Nightspy Rebus: so people can log in for the first time , find directions to the help island , and find toturials on everything that is possible in sl , just select what they like at the time and start there You: That'd be great Nightspy, that's part of the idea - a place to seek out help Nightspy Rebus: alot of people seem to spend their first few weeks just going from one party to another trying to find ways to make money Nightspy Rebus: i just tell them , it's easier and more rewarding to learn how to do things yourself FlipperPA Peregrine: LAst night we also suggested contacted the creators of the Ivory Tower and the SL Public Library for contibutions - much of the heavy lifting has been done Note it says "volunteers", doesn't say what volunteers, and the use of the term "Live Help Island" is not challenged or corrected by the Linden staff. Also says the helpers would have spaces, as opposed to just fluttering about. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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ReallyRick Metropolitan
Yes it's really me.
Join date: 4 Jun 2005
Posts: 691
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10-15-2005 17:19
Actually I did not save a log of the Greeters meeting so if someone did that would be great. However, Jeska did clearly say that a Help Island IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT! Considering the log being linked to in the posts above is from early August, this might explain why Jeska had an update just this week._____________________
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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10-15-2005 17:25
Actually I did not save a log of the Greeters meeting so if someone did that would be great. However, Jeska did clearly say that a Help Island IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT! Considering the log being linked to in the posts above is from early August, this might explain why Jeska had an update just this week.KEWL I didn't know about the update! _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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10-15-2005 17:34
Well, I don't understand this much but I also don't like it much.
Would new players be forced to go to this place? Half of them don't want to take the time on Orientation Island as it is. And for me, I hate somebody telling me how to play something. It ruins the fantasy of entering this whole new world type of thing, the exploration factor. If I want or need to know something, I know enough to find the places where I can learn, or click for live helper, or read here, or whatever. So if this is something more you have to pass through, I would hate it. If it is just an option, that would be better. However, from what little I can understand of the above, it sounds like it might ruin classes for everybody else who wants to give them, the ones on the event calendar. And speaking of that, would a person have to be real new to take advantage of this, or the classes therein? And if you weren't new, you would be dependant on the classes on the event calendar? Which are likely to become fewer? And would the helpers get paid for doing these classes? Also, I'm very opposed on principle to anything in the game which is restricted to just an approved few, such as the mentors and helpers in this case. Plus, what would happen to the welcome areas? For a world that is supposed to be made and run by us, this one is increasingly not. Pretty soon there is gonna be "official" everything. coco _____________________
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Persephone Milk
Very Persenickety!
Join date: 7 Oct 2004
Posts: 870
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10-15-2005 18:20
I think this is a wonderful idea. I believe that if this is done well, and if we can keep enough Mentors and Greeters available, that the population of Second Life will grow quickly as a result. As it stands now, the welcome area is a frenzied chaos that is turning a lot of newborns away. I am looking forward to this and I will send my own ideas to Jeska as well.
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~ Persephone Milk ~
Please visit my stores on Persenickety Isle Musical Alchemy - Pianos, harps and other musical intruments. Persenickety! - Ladies Eyewear, Jewelry and Clothing Fashions |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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10-15-2005 18:40
The conversation at the Welcome Area now concerns people having sex with donkeys, and comments about how people of a certain nationality enjoy watching videos of people pooping.
Anyone have any idea why the retention rate for new arrivals is so low? _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Persephone Milk
Very Persenickety!
Join date: 7 Oct 2004
Posts: 870
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10-15-2005 18:42
The conversation at the Welcome Area now concerns people having sex with donkeys, and comments about how people of a certain nationality enjoy watching videos of people pooping. Anyone have any idea why the retention rate for new arrivals is so low? _____________________
~ Persephone Milk ~
Please visit my stores on Persenickety Isle Musical Alchemy - Pianos, harps and other musical intruments. Persenickety! - Ladies Eyewear, Jewelry and Clothing Fashions |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-15-2005 19:37
This sounds like a great idea to me and may do a lot to help increase player retention during those first critical hours of discovery. Yes, this is a great thing - the Lindens need to take control of the intiial user experience. It, um, sucks, and it really shouldn't. Leaving it solely up to volunteers will only ensure inconsistent quality as well - the first hour and even first day in SL is critical to helping someone feel comfortable in SL. Anything that can be done to help that process is a good thing for all of us. Now cue the cries of unfairness and coopting and such nonsense. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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10-15-2005 19:45
For a world that is supposed to be made and run by us, this one is increasingly not. Pretty soon there is gonna be "official" everything. coco if this is "competition" then I say bring it on. Are you arguing that we should foster ignorance so that educators have something to do? That's like intentionally poisoning someone so you can keep nursing them. The reason we have classes is because LL doesn't have the resources to educate and help their own customer base. Any educator in SL who doesn't want to see more educational resources from WHATEVER source has their priorities out of wack. _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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10-15-2005 19:57
"Unfairness! Coopting! Such nonsense!"
I know it doesn't count as much if you don't mean it but I just wanted to be the first to say it anyway. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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10-15-2005 19:57
Most of the people at the WA suck.
Even if they wanted to help out, they are much more interested in playing looping, vulgar sound bits and having conversations with each other and occasionally picking fights (sometimes with Lindens who ask them to stop playing sounds, please). So, yeah, not the place for newbies. And it's not a "What about the children?" argument. It's just farking annoying. _____________________
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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10-15-2005 19:58
Anyone have any idea why the retention rate for new arrivals is so low? Is it? _____________________
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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10-15-2005 20:09
And it's not a "What about the children?" argument. It's just farking annoying. I think it's a "What about the adults?" argument. |
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
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10-15-2005 20:09
I would like to see one or two of the welcome area regulars stationed there to show the new people how not to act. Maybe put them in cages with a sign that says "Freak Show". I won't mention their names but anyone who has spent any time there knows who they are.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-15-2005 20:12
I think it's a "What about the adults?" argument. I think it is a Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego argument. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
