LL using The Suicide Girls to promote their product

You do INDEED bring sizzling hot diversity to my Second Life <3

Ah, Surreal, I respect you a lot, so you've managed to smoke out the reasonable Enabran for a moment.

I recognize I'm pushing the line toward trolling a bit much in this thread, but my reasons for doing so are founded upon two basic presumptions:

1. The outrage will be caused by jealousy
2. (Which I picked up on later) The outrage will be caused by closed-mindedness.

I agree that women have it much more difficult than men. Women, in addition to having to be competent and intelligent, also seem to have to be attractive to be taken seriously. That's a heavy cross to bear, I certainly see that. For men, the requirement of attractiveness is comparitively miniscule. I think that's a pretty raw deal you've gotten.

That said, the raw deal doesn't excuse being judgmental or nasty -- or simply unreasonable. There's a lot of seething here that makes absolutely no sense. While hardcore pornography certainly has its unsavory facets, as Ingrid has so enthusiastically pointed out, the Suicide Girls aren't a part of that world. They're sexy people doing sexy things, but that doesn't make them part of some sort of Sinister, Exploitative Pornographic Media Keiretsu. There are many, many degrees of separation between showing off the body and being paid to allow its orifices to be exploited on camera. The Suicide Girls are very, very far away from the extreme within that continuum.

To clump them together with hardcore exploiters and declare Linden Lab complicit in the exploitation of thousands of innocent girls? That makes no sense, and I can only explain it with either jealousy or intolerance.

Either of which is a ripe target for my adventures in forum excellence.

The irony of that statement from someone who can't even pay enough attention to spell my name properly.

Ingrid,

I think your points have been very well reasoned, and I respect why you feel this way. While I don't think it is fair to place the entire weight of problems in the porn industry onto one site and say it represents what is wrong with porn (exploitation), I can understand how promoting this site does send a mixed message. Overall, I am happy that they are acknowledging the sexuality of SL to some degree.

My feeling is really that the more diversity we have in SL, the better. Maybe women showing themselves naked on the web is not something you would ever want to aspire to or approve of, but for some people it may be exactly what they want to do and enjoy doing. More power to them. Not everyone who is in porn is being exploited. In that case, it is empowerment to be doing what they want to do. It's a fine line, I know, but I don't think we are in any position to judge.

One question for you - would you have felt the same way if they were promoting a site with men?

Awww, we still love you, IngIng!

You're more woman than most men on this planet could handle!

I'd agree that LLab was supporting the exploitative porn industry if they offered the invitation to say, the girls at MeatHoles.com, where they routinely get the shit kicked out of htem for pornographic gain, on camera.

The Sucidie Girls site, while technically considered "porn" by the current administration, I would actually classify it under "erotica". Porn implies dirt-cheap production values and assembly-line orgasms, at least to me. Erotica is the exploration and appreciation of the human body.

i've been to the website, even took a peak at the member's section (a friend o fmine's a member); there's nothing overly exploitative about it. Do they get paid peanuts? Probably. But porn/erotica is a penny per hundred pictures. SuicideGirls is more of a community site than anything; MySpace with tits.

Wow, I decide to give the forums a break for a night and drama ensues without me.

Just to throw my completely uneeded opinion in about this.. If LL is going to be offering deals or special last names or any other perks to online communities, I think they chose a damn good one to start with.

I've been to the SG site quite a few times through various web searches and links, being a fan of body art, and I always liked it. I like the idea that realistic and alternative looking women have so many admirers. Good for them. I don't find the site negatively exploitive, crass, tasteless or at all the wrong kind of 'image' SL should be projecting. Rather, I think it's exactly the niche they should be targeting. Creative & computer oriented.

I would much rather have these girls and the fans of their site in SL than just another random collection of Barbies and He-Men here to try and make a quick buck selling freebies while LL chants "Come to SL and make real money!" I much prefer the idea of people being attracted to SL on the basis of it being a good place for artistic and creative expression.

Cristiano and I are the token latinos. It is thanks to us that The Second Life Show will get on TV.

"What's with all the white dudes?"

"We got hispanics, too, man. Check them out. They even have jobs!"

"Suspension of disbelief. I like it! Margie, get these folks a timeslot."

I tried to save you a spot, but Enabran won't shut up and keeps hogging the whole thing.

I'm going to take a guess that there are a lot of women out there that can look themselves in a mirror and think "wow that's hot" and yet not feel the need to post them on a website for people to jack off to.

While I agree that SG is trendy art and not porn, I still believe that they are objects. Trendy artsy objects... but still objects. Yes some enjoy being objects as it inflates their sense of self. Just whats going to happen to them when their way of showing off is gone? Fade into the background and "remember when." Its the same thing that happens with talentless actresses who were once hot.

I could go into how much it angers me that people sell themselves as objects and in return the rest of us women get 66% less pay because we are nothing more then something to look at. Oh wait. Just did. But really... if they want to do it fine, but it sure would be nice if they stood up and fought for women's issues.

The things that I have an issue with is that SL is a popularity contest. Instead of RL popularity contests which are based on looks it was based on attitude, style, and creativity. Having a Linden founded group of "most crushworthy" seems a bit fishy. And I want my own last name too! And this world is about creativity.. which is what LL was selling when I got here. Bring that idea back instead of the sex, money, and escapisim ideas they are toting.

*goes back to frolicking on her brand new shiny private sim*

Hey man, y'all had all night and all morning.

This is the best thread ever.

I really think you're seeing what you want to see Enabram as opposed to actually examining people's motives in an unbiased way as to why they might not be comfortable with this.





It really depends on how you look at it. I call it porn, it contains naked pictures of women that people pay to see. That to me constitutes pornography. Yeah, it's soft core, but it's porn nontheless. The porn industry does not have a good rap sheet when it comes to the exploitation of women.

On a happier note, I don't necessarily think anyone's opinion about all this is "wrong". Except for the part when I was told to get someone a sammich and pie.

Uh-huh. And that's your little sister's Menudo CD too, right?

I chatted with Noir Suicide the other night, and "Object" was not the word that comes to mind. She was very enthusiastic about Second Life and she was chomping at the bit to host parties and participate any way she can.

She obviously poses nude as part of her greater career and life plans. If we ignore everything else she does, never get to know her, and focus entirely on the nude pics ... Well then I guess I could see why "OBJECT" would feel like the right word. But then, I think that would be OUR fault, not hers.

Wilder:

Q. Is there a deal/agreement/contract between Linden Lab and the Suicide Girls?

A. No

Except for the fact that you gave them a last name of their own, special to them. (And a fairly offensive last name as well.)

Q. Were the Suicide Girls approached by Linden Lab to join Second Life as a part of a program or promotion?

A. No

Except for the fact that you did approach them, and asked them to join SL in the hopes that you would get more players and more publicity.

Q. Why did Linden Lab do this?

A. There is an interest in seeing how existing web communities can extend what they offer members by having a virtual space where they can meet and interact. The Suicide Girls have a very active community and Second Life is a good fit for them to be able to meet and greet each other as well as their site members.

And because you hope to get bunches more residents. And because it causes a stir.

You make this sound as if the sex angle didn't even enter your mind when you courted the Suicide Girls. What about all the other existing web communities?

Please remember that the residents in Second Life with the last name Suicide are like all residents and deserve to be treated according to the Community Guidelines and Standards.

No they aren’t. They’ve been wooed and given a special last name by the Lindens. Were they given anything else the rest of us don’t get?

There will be more web communities in the future joining Second Life as we continue to grow and expand and they should be given the chance to make a home just as we all have.

Who's not giving them "a chance to make a home?" The objection isn't to them, it's to LL's actions. The objections are to the special deal they got, the fact that you chose a porn/erotica site to make that deal with, and the fact that you did it - as usual - behind the scenes, with no announcement, and waited till we discovered it.

I ask again: Did they get any other perks the rest of us don't besides exclusive access to a special last name of their own preference?

coco

Not looking for drama at all. Jarod Godel doesn't have to look for drama, he makes his own.

I'm mostly just curious. The date struck me as odd, but only because I was under the impression this all happened two days ago, which was my bad thinking obviously.

As I said before, it's just a feature that's never been seen in Second Life, and new features (and how to access them) just make me curious. Since "Suicide" as a last name is kind of a brand of the SG web site, it does make good sense for all your groups' avatars to use it, and it was a good idea of Linden Lab to offer it. The suddenness of the offer is what struck me as... Odd. I'm not going to hound any SG people over it, I'd just like to know, from a Linden, what the protocol over such a thing is.

Aside from the Suicide Girls, the only other people who have been given specific last names are research groups. Linden Lab offer them specific last names so users will know if they're talking to someone working on a research project -- and can avoid them if they don't want to be part of collected research.

I'm curious if this is the same thing or if "Suicide" is glimpse at Linden Lab's changing view of, well, changing names. This isn't looking for drama, it's trying to sort the signal out of all the dramatic moans.

No! Or in other words: "Don't feed the troll!"

Linden Lab is under no obligation to announce this, or to provide any details of what their arrangement is, nor are the Suicide Girls. It is none of our business. I don't know why people seem to think they are entitled to the details of every single business relationship that LL enters into.

Well, I can do that, too.

Microsoft beat the crap out of smaller businesses in the past. Microsoft makes software. Enabran makes software, too, but nowhere near on the scale of Microsoft, and the product is simple the point of absurdity. Therefore, because Enabran and Microsoft vaguely inhabit the same space, Enabran is a dickbag and we should all hate him, because he's going to use his muscle to destroy smaller businesses.

Wal-Mart makes billions on the cheap labor of Chinese workers. Wal-Mart is a retailer. Joe Dawkins Furniture is also a retailer, but the owners pay American laborers a fair wage. Still, retail is a nasty business, because of Wal-Mart and his ilk. Wal-Mart doesn't want to open a new store in our community, but Joe wants to expand! Let's burn down Joe's store.

Absolutely. And thank goodness no one so far has implied that any of them are objects, at least not in this thread.

*edited*

God forbid we see the Suicide Girls as real people, Aimee. Please be serious. How will we hate them if we see they're just like us?


I spoke with Noir, too, and she was really excited about SL because it let her interact with her people from SG in a much more immediate way than forums and E-Mail would permit. Nice person and genuinely interested in what this place has to offer.

I think suspicion, jealousy and prejudice are a great way to welcome all of the Suicide Girls, yeah!

They also made special last names for the influx of people coming from There when they originally announced their imminent shutdown- that is where Thereian and Karuna came from (I think there was another one too, I forget).

Actually I was referring to this post:

/108/15/87150/9.html#post886416

Didn't they do one when Uru shut down too? Or am I just remembering that we got a metric buttload of Uru-ites here all at once?