Stagecoach Island defects to ActiveWorlds

We always knew this was Beta, we always knew when Beta would end, but we didn't know they were defecting to AW. Can we let the thread die now?
If you have more questions send me a PM.

Unfortunately, AW has some very serious problems with it's design. Being entirely client-side, things like doors which open on one client, wont open on another person's machine who is standing right next to it.


You are talking about the "old" client, which is not the "new" one Wells Fargo is using -
doors open now for everyone to see, for example. There is a lot more that has changed in this client, like the ability to ride things or particle effects, to just name the most important changes. Some other things are soon to come, like scripting, skinned avatars, server-side enhancements incuding physics.

What is superior in SL still is the better granularity of the terrain (it is not "smooth", but has a granularity of 1m, while AW has still 10m - on the other hand, the AW water is way beyond what AW has), and the "inventory" features that allow you to carry things in pockets around, while AW has no such thing.

When it comes to compatibility and stability, AW is still ahead of SL big time - although I would not recommend to enter AW with a P3/500, it will work and with a top class computer, there is almost no lag. In the opposite, when I enter SL with a Athon X2/4600 and a GF 7800GFX, I still get a mere 10-15 frames. AW works with software mode (no graphic card needed, slow), with OpenGL (faster, but still slow) and with DirectD (Dx8 and T&L, quite fast). The stability of the universe and world servers is extreme - you can crash them easily, but that would require actions that are not "normal" and therefore almost never happen. Not to forget, that you can run univesre and world servers (more than one world actually) on hardware like P3/1000 very well - which translates into a very thought-out protocol architecture. In the end, people won't be impressed by the nicest existing technology when it crashes or lags badly.

AW has both inworld streaming video and audio which do not require a specific format, so you can stream videos easily with the default Windows Media server as long as the codecs match.

The music ability which was described in an other post here comes from the "music machine", which is basically a built-in MIDI interface that can be played by simple commands, polyphonic and in multiple instruments, so for exmaple you provide a keyboard inworld and people can play it by clicking the keys <g>.

There is no doubt that SL is the "newer" product and its appeal is more "modern", more colorful, mor streamlined and more, perhaps, stylish - but that won't be enough to claim a technological "leadership" or "advanced technology", what counts in the end, is, how people will perceive the technology, whether worlds are crashing or not, whether they can move around with their office computer or only with a game machine, whether they need days to produce scripts or rather use pre-made commands, and, of course, whether people rather want to be seen in the latest, newest world or in an old, but rock-solid and not at all outdated one.

We (linden and bedazzle) were indeed informed that it "wasn't" going to continue past beta.

As far as I know the situation has been resolved amicably and we can all go on with our lives which is why I asked that if anyone has more questions, they PM me.

Although the AW version is awful in a lot of ways and the SL version was much better looking and cohesive, what struck me the most about the AW experience was immediately it had you stepping through choosing your hair color, skin tone, eye color, and some clothing options, all from an attractive web page with predefined choices. Right now this is not possible in SL because of the lack of HTML support and because inventory items/clothing are not scriptable, but something as simple as this would go a long way toward improving the new user experience.


You probably do not know how this is managed.

I am not sure myself how they make it in this very case, since I did not look at the websites, but basically it goes like this: A website gathers various information as the user clicks through it. After that, the web server sends the information by script to the world server (the entity that houses the actual world you are about to enter) and the world server the selects a pre-made avatar according to your choices. In other words, there are xxx premade avatars available and the one that macthes your options is picked from the list.

This could actually be done easily in SL too, by putting up various options on a website, the website then sends the information to the (after the start in the background running) SL client and the client then modifies the ini settings for the character before the program finally opens and the user enters the world. It is not black magic and advanced technology, just a little bit of script and thoughts how to make things easier for newbies - know-how so to say.

Cubey's content was reproduced without authorization.
Swivel did not have the right to move to AW without informing Bedazzle and giving us the opportunity to negotiate a new contract.
Vendors were generally kept out of the loop and improperly compensated, if at all.

As far as I know the situation has been resolved amicably and we can all go on with our lives which is why I asked that if anyone has more questions, they PM me. This thread is too long and too confusing and a lot of people who had no involvement in the project threw about uninformed opinion and wild speculation that may have been perceived as fact in some people's minds.

Some other things are soon to come, like scripting, skinned avatars, server-side enhancements incuding physics.

I am well aware of how web applications work and interact with a server, as a web application developer myself. It is my understanding actually that the Stagecoach Island project is running on an unreleased beta version of the AW client that supports changing of clothing - they do not have avatars precreated for all possible combinations of hair color, eye color, clothing, shoes and accessories.

The same could actually be done in SL as Moopf pointed out earlier, and it could also actually be done with a web site as well. I am experimenting with that now - I think it is a very interesting concept. I know it's not black magic - it is just a major improvement in the ease of use for new players, which is what one of the things SL lacks. Far superior technology alone won't cut it if the users are scared away in the first 15 miinutes. Spending 15 minutes in AW, you already realize the severe limitations of it.

So Bedazzle etc. did know that it wasn't going past Beta from what you've said. A little PM to that effect wouldn't of gone amiss, would it? Incidentally, I PM'd Foxy a few weeks ago to see what was happening as I thought the Beta would have ended from the vague time scales I was given. Guess what? No response. Nada. So I guess you're all as complicit in the lack of communication as LL. It now makes a little more sense why I was ignored there.

Here's another terse and arrogant quip: Why don't you guys try mailing [email=catherine@lindenlab.com]catherine@lindenlab.com[/email] - I think she's the one who handles payment stuff.

Hey Moopf,

Actually I didn't know when beta was to end. The dates on the contract where not correct for one. The project never did get launch on the date it was suppose to start. It was my error or my end to not note the actual delay date it did start. I did know that the project was not doing as good as they expected, but i thought like you that I would be inform by Swivel news about this project which none of us did hear anything.

We knew when Beta was *supposed* to end. But projects have unexpected delays, and really, once it's been delivered, it's out of my hands, and I couldn't care less what Swivel or Linden Lab did to it. I'm a coder. I code. When a project is over, I move on to the next one. I don't *know* who all the vendors were, off the top of my head, or what your arrangement with LL was, but really Moopf, if this is about L$ and you sold your stuff at L$1-L$10 like everyone else then you're probably owed a grand total of L$50-L$500, given how empty SI always was. If it will make you happy I will get inworld and send you that much.
I vaguely remember someone who had been paid said they had had to email catherine about it. Try talking to the other vendors or something and find out which have been paid or not.

So now you're saying that you didn't know when Beta was actually ending? Colour me confused.

So now you're saying that you didn't know when Beta was actually ending? Colour me confused.

My contact throughout all of this, even over initial payment arrangements, has been Reuben. I've never had any contact with Catherine Linden. But I guess you think it's unreasonable to expect Reuben to be the "Right Linden"tm) to contact, even though it was Reuben who emailed over the initial payment to my Paypal account right at the start of the project and Reuben who liased regarding the objects etc. And it's been so nice of Reuben to respond to tell me to contact Catherine, rather than not respond at all. Oh that's right, he still hasn't bothered to respond.

As often happens, you can never find the right Linden, can you.