Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

Well .. thats says it all really ...

How about a product like the original 4 pack.
Four Homesteads on a single cpu just like an full. One estate, one owner, full privs.
Let the estate manage the distrubition of resources just like we do regions on a full.
No increase in load on the grid beyond a full. Four times the grid space is the only change.
What is a fair price for this product. Not $500usd a month I think. Maybe not 300usd either? But a lot closer to that.

signed: One of the BAD people who had rental customers on their multiple open estates.
(most of my customers have bailed in the last several days because of this turmoil)

Jack was commenting here recently, both before and after his office hour today, and I'm sure he'll be back for more.

Thank you for answering, I have been reading this thread since it started ... and have not seen Jack answer much at all.

Not 100% up on LL specs so what are the holes in this proposal?

Here is what LL should be providing:

Common-CPU OSS (sold in groups of 4 only)
4 OSS hosted on a common CPU. Estate owner responsible for managing the server load by managing all 4 OSS on the CPU.
3750 prims per sim / 15000 total
no AV limits (40 total is still max recommended)
no script throttling
$1000 purchase (for all 4)
$295 monthly tier (for all 4)
(basically this is a normal sim divided into 4 OSS)


Shared-CPU OSS
1 OSS hosted with other single OSSs. Owner has to accept risk of lower performance caused by other OSS not under their control and script throttling.
2000 prims per OSS
10 AV max per OSS
script throttling
$330 purchase
$95 monthly tier

Existing OSS owners can group their existing sims to form Common-CPU groups, or transition any single OSS to the shared CPU model. The shared CPU model has a higher cost due to increased oversight by LL and increased setup cost.

This allows large estate owners and sailing groups to retain the current product for the purposes that they have been using them for at the same time putting the responsibility of oversight and usage in their hands or suffer the performance consequences.

Those that cannot afford a 4 pack can transition to the shared CPU model, but because of performance issues with the current design there will need to be some additional controls put in place to ensure equal access to server resources across all 4 OSS on the CPU. The monthly price increase is not too out of line.

As users add more OSS to their estates to form multiples of 4, they will be automatically grouped for better performance and decreased cost.

3 Shared-server OSS = $285 month but adding a 4th would be just $295 under Common-server costs. Good incentive for people to buy more.


oh...also give estate owners the ability to see what other OSSs are sharing the CPU to help troubleshoot performance issues.

Katt this isn't a good place for a discussion is it. Let's be honest, forum chats don't work. Submitted Questions and published answers would have potential but I doubt the awkward questions and that very much includes Linden Lab's role in this fiasco, would be addressed.

The 67% price hike is shocking customer relations, Linden Lab's refusal to take responsibility is just shocking full stop.

1. Why did you raise the prim limit if you didnt want us to use em?

2. Were you really surprised when the prim limits you raised and provided to us were used?

3. Is Linden Labs making enough money at our expense yet or should we lube up?

4. How stupid do you think we are?

Katt Linden is the moderator of this forum and is just doing her job and doing it right and proper, as far as I can see!
And yes, I too think Katt is entitlet to voice a small joke on her own behalf, in this sordid mess!
Katt is not responsible for the company policy debated here; so please let us be considerate and not aim our frustration at Katt...

I'll see what I can do. Thanks.

How much ya wanna bet M and Jack ordered Kate to come in and take the heat while they run off and hide. Kate's just doing her job trying to moderate this mess, its not her fault M and Jack care more about their paychecks than dealing with the people that pay the fees that pay their checks.

Edit: Err make that Katt Linden

/me points at the ToS violation.

Sorry Jack and M,

You're handling of this mess and the follow on posts don't do it for me. You all knew what Open Spaces were being used for. By the lowering of costs and the raising of prim limits (not to mentioned the agressiveness in which you were rolling them out) LL could not have been that blind. If so, have I got a deal for you concerning a bridge I know about in Brooklyn. You want to raise the rates? Give me something tangible for my troubles. Right now, you're raising prices and NOT giving me anything in return.

I don't own any open space products but my SL income relys heavily on them as the estate I manage is made of open space residential areas. Unfortunately, with the rise in cost of the products, we're gonna see a reduction in tenants which in turn will reduce my income.

So in order to reduce my expenditures in SL, soon as my Alts account (a 2005 AV) comes up for renewal, I'll be forced to change that account from a paid account to a unpaid account. So, from the 85,000 or so paid accounts, after Jan, you'll ba down to 84,999. I know, won't even make a difference. But since 2005, I've dealt with the updates, the crashes, the head up my back side bug, the greifers, the ageplayers (I was a SL Kid AV at the start), the asset server issues, the unavailable logins just to mention a few. And I've always been an advocate of SL to the RL folks I come in contact with. Won't be able to do that anymore. I've lost both my faith and trust in Linden Labs as a whole.

Richy Nervous
Manager of Tweakland Estates

I've done forum modding, I know what it's like having to take the heat of someone else's making. It's not nice

Does reporting ToS violations like posting chat logs help or is that just spam, Katt?

/me points to the top of this page.

LOL, the good old "its your own fault" reply.

Maybe shift the focus from searching for "not obeing the rules people" to the real issues.
Maybe if LL really tries to learn from its residents, someday when calling people "passionate", it will not be the "stand-in" word for "angry and sad" again.

For now it is clear to me that LL has no clue on what is going on and that can cost us our Second Life.

Just my opinion of course and just like LL, I am nearsighted in my own way too.

it isnt a "right" for anyone to post anything we want on any blog of forum in any country. if it is a forum or blog or property owned or moderated by someone else we all must abide by the guidelines. this is also true for using SL. nobody has a "right" to be in sl or do what they please in sl, we are using a service, and the service provider has guidlines and terms we must abide by in order to keep our priviledges. (as long as the terms of service are understood and dont change at the drop of a hat like ahem.. certain other services do)

our freedom of speech rights hold for blogs and forums and news media that WE own ourselves, or for peaceful street protests in public places, not for media owned by other people. hence the signs you see outside of businesses "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"


i just have to say that because it is a peeve of mine whenever people say they have a right to do what they like in sl or say what they like. In SL and SLs blogs and forums nobody does, not even in a free country.

so give Katt a break, shes been pretty good at letting us all voice and work at this problem at hand.

P.S. im not saying i like it, im just saying thats the way it is. so if LL knows whats good for business they will not refuse service to 50% of their customer base by baiting and switching all of us out to other virtual worlds.

March: Lower price by half, double prims limits, push openspace sales as hard as possible.


April-October: rake in untold numbers of $250 setup fees.


November: devalue people's investments, offer lesser services, keep the non-refundable setup fees.

November forward: People either stay, paying LL more, or go buy land that is outrageously expensive in one of the new planned communities, losing their setup fees.

**********************************


That is what has happened. There is NOTHING subjective in that. That is simply fact. You can debate on motives. You can debate on whether it will be good for them in the long run, but you can't say it isn't true.

They offered bait, the sims were bought, and now the service is being switched. Period. Letting us help them name the lesser services, or maybe giving us an list of abuses they can hand down is just window dressing the facts above. Given that, there really IS no reason for discussion.

Next week they can offer us a million prims for a dollar a month with a $5k setup, and the week after it becomes 1k prims for $10k a month. Then they laugh at us behind our backs as we leave and they keep our $5k. I have no doubt that they are laughing at us right now.

Is anyone here ever going to buy land from LL again? And if so... um, why?

It's like the good old "freedom from religion" when it actually says "freedom OF religion" - the right to choose which, or no, faith you wish to follow; not the ability to remove it from everyday life completely.

But that's another discussion for another day

the only thing linden labs is currently providing is a rental space on a server. I do not buy any of this. This is nothing more than the corporate stucture maximizing gains with no additional expense. A wise business move if you simply ignore those who make it more than just open servers. We pay to play. Many of us will no longer play. The use of open space sims is not costing Linden labs one red cent more than it did when they rolled them out and pushed them by raising prim limits and lowering costs. It is a shame that the response has been...We will not ripp you off in one event but instead you will prolong and extend the beating this will give those who stay in game.

I truly feel our next move as residents is to leave SL in MASS, and let you deal with this on your own. I say we all move to leave SL in mass and go to another game if there is any increase at all or change in service for what we were paying for currently. We formed petitions, and we voted and we are still geting "jacked", they are just taking their time doing it now. Who will start the next movement to leave SL altogether? I for one am out of this game for good if the price is raised.

WHO IS WITH ME????

Just got around to looking at this. If you haven't seen this yet, go check it out.

Katt, don't you see this is the problem. Jack has office hours. He goes home. I know that there are dedicated Lindens. But unfortunately there are a lot more dedicated residents. Your residents love their creations in SL. There simple pleasures of being able to have a small piece of land to themselves. We come home and go in world. We get in world from work when we can. We live here. There are no office hours for us.

By pricing these sims out of our reach you destroy our dreams, you upset our social lives. You force us to choose. Our Life in SL, which is for a lot of the people much more pleasant than our life in RL.

We don't have office hours. Our dedication is 100%.

Linden Labs has lost the way in this. If there are issues with economy in LL, as certain layoff announcements indicate, then you work with the rest of us, who are facing the same concerns to work through them. It's possible the talented, intelligent group that makes their homes here, and doesn't work by office hours could come up with cost cutting measures, or truly useful ways for Linden Labs to to continue to offer the canvas for our Pixel Lives.

Without this, you lose. Maybe a small number today, but the numbers grow. As the content creators and resident who had a dream leave, because they can't afford it anymore leave. You lose. It's quite a shame on all of us that this must happen.

To the rest of you that fight. Think about your friends. Think about the times you have had here. Fighting each other doesn't do anything. We are all going to disagree on certain ideas. It's just human nature. But it's better to not argue who is right or wrong. Support each other. Remember everyone has a dream they want to fulfill.

Very astute! Indeed you are right.

Rounded up, this would put prices at $295 per Private Region, $75 per Homestead, and $40 per Open SIM. Very fair pricing for the prims, prims are evenly laid out per core, and it still pays for the servers just the same as a Private Region alone. Any more than this is profiteering, which leads to disgruntled customers that will leave to look for other companies to do business with.

I'm still investigating alternate options to expand my CG business, and currently Linden Labs is far less of a competitor for what they are charging. In one years time, we're going to see dozens of competitive companies with cheaper (and stable) server rentals. Way to look to the future LL. You may have killed your business in the long run.

If I can't turn a profit, there's no point in upgrading my land ownership. For Linden Labs, this means less money goes to them from my pocket entirely.

Actually it is 3749 replies, 175,039 views (first thread) + 1480 replies, 53,815 views(this thread) and not even counting the side threads that were created, replied to and viewed.

Thats 5229 replies and almost 230.000 views and, with announcing undefined restrictions on the new "homestead" script usage, it only got worse.

it will probably happen but we dont need to organize for it to happen for many, its already happening and has been happenign for two years now. people will decide one by one and if LL isnt careful about their policies, we will see major changes this year, the world makeup will change as newbies discover other weblinks, oldbies invite them outside. trends in, trends out, nobody is really stuck here especially with opensim out there. unfortuanely for LL, this is not rl, for the casual user it takes a new weblink click to move on out and no muscle necessary to pack up your things. unfortunately it will leave a burden on LL to create beautiful builds for newbies to play in because the expert builders and oldbie community organizers have left. i certainly dont want it to happen cause i love SL like my first love, but i want better policies and a better world.