Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

Cheers, Ciaran. Blondin's reply is very interpretable. I would say that trying the anims briefly doesn't constitute "having sex", but someone else's interpretation will be different. I guess it'll be a case of me doing nothing at the time, other than remove those phrases and models, and, if they object, then do something.

Jess, you can enhance my second life by keeping your hands out of it.

If the lindens want an "enhanced" second life, feel free to create one seperate from the one i'm currently enjoying. I will try it, and if i like it I'll buy it.

W~

I have been trying to rationalise in my own mind what has incensed me so about these proposals and I think it's the fact we are being taken for fools.

In what it perceives its own financial interest, LL wishes to remove the association with sex from SL. It matters not what the present users think because ultimately LL will act in what it perceives to be its own financial interest. The decision has already been made. The liberal ideals have gone; SL is no longer to be "a world imagined and created by its residents". LL no longer likes that world. Such a shame that the residents have expended so much time, effort and money creating that world, but hey, that's [second] life (the ToS say so)! Instead, SL is to be "a world imagined and created by LL for its own financial benefit". Please LL, just admit this is so and save us the "spin".

If the matter was otherwise, the solution to the alleged problem presented is startlingly simple. Create a new PG continent and release a new PG viewer which prevents the user from entering or seeing into any non-PG sim and from viewing any non-PG results or profiles in search. However, LL knows full well that there is no demand for a new PG continent.

LL's proposals are intended significantly to reduce the amount of mature or adult (call it what you will, as it seems the same to me) material and locations available. I can imagine the conversations now:

"We like your dance AOs, shame to have to reclassify/relocate for the sake of those few pesky sex animations, isn't it?"
"We love your 15th century castle build and the landscaping, it must have taken you thousands of hours. Rather than relocating, do you really need the dungeon reminding us of the fact that back in those times people were tortured?"
"Your recreation of ancient Rome is wonderful. You must be very proud of what you've achieved. Orgies weren't a significant part of Roman life though and is all the blood and gore in the amphitheatre really necessary? Remove those items and you can stay where you are. Saves a lot of hassle, don't you think?"

I cant help but think that if this goes through, the pg area that was once mainland will be empty of avatars and there will be a single prim with an anti autoreturn script and a texture that reads "BRING BACK THE PORN".

You could be onto something, read Phil Deakins post a few posts back where he asks how he will be classified for having a few sexbeds where users can try out the animations.

If I am reading the original message as well as the responses back from Cyn, it isn't the sky is falling scenario most are imagining. What you have or do in your own home is not an issue and you won't be required to move, and even mature oriented business or places will not have not move, only those that are "extremely" graphic sexually or violent. So the public flogging BDSM square next to the park-- yes, your sex bed or nude art-- no. While I personally don't care if it is on the adult grid, I do find it annoying that people misuse the adult and PG ratings for their land or classifieds so that sometimes the results of looking for "prefabs" or "skin" even PG come up with some really raunchy results that I don't care to see that are easily X or adult. So as always, it is difficulty of striking a balance- providing freedom for people who get turned on by public orgies or whatever TO do what they wish, with those who would rather not walk into it by accident to to be protected FROM what they don't want to see or get in the proverbial middle of. Today, the guidelines for PG and mature are not followed at all. Where the implementation will become sticky is, as many have asked, how will the Lindens identify and classify adult content and then make comparable land available (a swap of same sized parcels or...?), how will they assist users in moving their content so the time and effort spent developing builds and content will not be lost. The "how" this is all done is where this can all go horribly wrong, so I would urge the Lindens to carefully consider all aspects of this BEFORE rushing to implement any changes and incorporate resident's feedback and ideas.

Oddly, it's in the Goals and Motivations thread where there are a number of detailed questions about how Mainland parcels will be migrated to Ursula. This is a critically important topic because most folks who bought Mature land likely intended the freedom of the current definition of Mature, and will therefore need to be moved to Adult where that definition still applies.

So, we get it that this will be free of charge, but how much of the original parcel's attributes will be preserved? For example, will waterfront property be replaced by similar waterfront? What about other infrastructure features?

How will double-primmed parcels be handled? Zoned (a la Brown, Boardman, etc)? Super-terraforming as in some of the color sims?

At the very least, will size and *shape* of parcel be preserved?

What about shops or RP sims that use guns ? . Can't have those nasty things.

or better yet, what happens if ALL of the residents in SL decide to move to the new "Adult-Adult" land, and leave all the puritans, intolerant, and bigots behind, and alone with each other in the shattered remains of the mainland....

I mean LL, couldn't come right out and say we want all the aforementioned losers to move to a new grid, so they tell us that all the "Adults" have to move. very clever indeed, but no one will want to be in what is left behind.

What business university, or other organization would want to setup shop in such an area, filled with nothing but groups with agendas and views that they try to force on others.

We should all pass the word and embrace this change, tell everyone that this is the opportunity to get away from the bigots and other small minded people and go to an area that supports and embraces the freedoms that we came to SL for in the first place.

So lets all move to the new "Adult-Adult" sim and leave all those who practice hate as a lifestyle behind.

While my place doesn't technically qualify as "adult" I would rather live next to those who suuport freedom and choice than in a mainland dedicated to bigots and special interests.

kids
i understand linden want to merge an child grid to this grid ,
an child game merged to an adult game , this is the most weird idea i ever heard in my life .
and then talking about being concerned how bad it can be for the kids.

i think it is an financial problem , so we pay for the kids grid , and linden want to have an better name in rl, and try to create an famely grid .

but do we want kids in this grid , do we want kids running around our property,? o sure we can use securety orbs , but orbs are awfull for flying around in fly machines , you crash all the time, and fly higher is like flying in nothing . , soo
what is left . in the future , no flying , no freedom to go where you want , and securety ore acciswalls are eve more worse for sailing and moto boats .
i think this cost an lot of fun ,
i think the best thing is we can do . is ban the childeren if you see one
just right click and ban, no warning , no talking, and owners of parks and other public places , hire seccurety ppl , and ban the childeren , if you cant ban , then be verry unfriendly , and make clear they have to stay in their own sims , that childeren here are very unwanted .

dear linden i think at least 70% of us dont want childeren in our world , we build this world ,
you better listen to the ones who pay you , we are the big spenders , not the childeren , and not the the teachers , and not the concerned parents .
and not all the orgarnisations outside second life ,

and keep in mind , many come here as escape for the rl , in rl they restricted by kids , famely , social , and now they are restricted again
it is really an weird idea , i think linden should have an better look to the avarage member here .

Just an idea, but what about changing or adding an adult barrier maybe in a different color which would show residents when they are entering land which contains adult content.

It could be set by Linden when anyone buy's mature land, but would not restrict access to the land, only serve to warn. Then residents are free to enter or not as is there will. The barriers which are in use at the present would remain for land owner to set at there own discretion
.
Maybe the Adult barrier could actually stop only those whom have set as a preference that they do not wish to enter Adult ares, or those not old enough to enter such areas.

Ok I understand that some people might not like the idea of a barrier around there land just because they bought a mature plot, but in RL if we don't want our children to see the sex shop around the corner we make a point of not going in that direction. The same idea should apply to SL.

I'm the Madam of an escort club on a 5000+ sq.m. parcel on the old continent.
So basically you want us to: 1) buy an island or buy a full mainland region to become estate owner to flag adult content OR 2) move to a new adult continent where all neighbors are clubs. Also: staff and visitors are required to verify their account to show that they are an adult.
If all clubs are situated next to each other, competition will be tough and lag will be immense. Campers will be nihil as most are poor people with a 5th alt, who don't want to have "payment info on file" (required to be able to verify the account as an adult); same for our staff who are mostly poor people and try to earn something, and same for many paying visitors who are alts of businessmen in SL. So, if only the richer VIP can access the clubs, and only the richer staff can work in clubs, then I guess the clubs and staff have the right to ask RL prices as in RL clubs: with RL entrance fees and RL prices for adult services. It will be either that, or closing the club, I think. I'm allied with a few other clubs and I'm definately going to try to push this through if it comes to a move. Clubs already have a hard time enough to get even at the end of the month since the casino players left SL (they were good customers) and sploders were forbidden. So maybe a new era is going to start soon where we are going to charge what we deserve for the hard work.
And having to buy land for the club on the new continent while the current land is not sold yet, will raise my tier. Your idea to let us buy new land is not bad; it will fill your pockets royally. But I have another idea: how about exchanging our current land for land on the new continent for free and without any tier increase ? Such would only be fair but still would not make me happy as a new environment and reorganization will slow our services, resulting into unhappy customers... and I'm not even talking about the name of our club that is the same as the region we are currently located in order to be easily found and remembered.... so I guess I'll have to change the name of the club too to get the same result on the new continent... *shrugs*

The problem is that it has nothing to do with PIOF, but, rather, "verification on file".

I.E., you will have to submit to Aristotle's Age Verification system, or whatever alternatives they offer for it. Payment info is not considered "age verification" by the Lindens.



It will create a huge incentive for a lot of people to go "to hell with this BS" and leave.



Not *ALL* anatomically-correct male avatars.



I wish I could share that optimism, and I might have, had Jeska, Blondin, Jp, Maurice, et al ACTUALLY made a REAL effort to communicate with us from the start, instead of cooking up this PR placebo/fiasco. However, it is beyond clear what this all is, what their real intentions are, and they will reap the requisite rewards of their actions.

=============================================
CORRECTION:

According to some posts by Blondin, PIOF WILL be considered "age verified". That basically obliterates one entire motivation for this push, to "protect the children".

So, we're basically left with the supposed "mature adults" who can't seem to figure out not to go places where they might see something that "offends" their tender sensibilities. It certainly won't prevent it from coming to them via griefing, so that's a non-issue. No, essentially, this is being done to "protect" adults who have the minds of children, a la, "protecting people from themselves". Isn't it wonderful how Linden Lab thinks of its customers? We ARE sheep; just say "baaa" and get it over with.

Next, we'll be getting interstitial OSHA ads about not staying logged in for more than an hour at a time, or to sit up straight and use proper keyboard-hand posture to avoid CTS.

Good idea, ban lines don't work for anything else, so of course they'll magically work for this instead of being just another blight of ugly boxes all over the grid.

I joined SL in 2006 because it was a really interesting place to be. My first few weeks on were a trip... Walking around exploring, randomly tp'ing just to see new things. Seeing stuff most of us would never come across in real life. Being able to do things some of us will never be able to do in RL. Flying aircraft, sailing, snow boarding, going on a cruise ship, racing cars, dancing the night away 1000 meters in the air on top of a cloud, creating your own virtual home, letting your artistic side come out as you create it. And yes, I also enjoyed the sexual side of SL. Remember "Fey's Fantasies"? I had so much fun hanging out there in my noob days! Still have the landmark for them. Thank You for all the hard work and money you put into those builds! I love naked ladies, sex, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana _~~~, nudity, guns, delicious bloody ribeye steaks, driving pollution spewing gasoline powered vehicles, and Texas. Not necessarily in that order... LOL! And if anyone is offended by any of those things that I do in RL or SL and want to prohibit or restrict me from doing any of those things on land I own, which was in a mature sim when I bought it, they can kiss my tan, very well defined, virtual a**... I operate a skybox so I will just open it up to everyone and ask for donations... Hopefully that won't violate the "New World Order" here in SL.. If have a problem with any of the above don't come to my place. Don't want to know you... ; )

very adult, if not to say: violent, - if a company starts every quarter of each year to slap their custumers left and right into the face, companied by some uppercuts, some jabs and some breath-taking liver-punchs, while taking the money and running away?

Are we paying for frequently stress and frustration and knock-outs in the first round?

My friends and I are located on different mainland locations. Well chosen and long searched. One location has the comfort by luck, to have 3 (in characters: three) protected waterfronts and the other location has one protected waterfront. Both in sunshine areas and very quiet environments with kind of beach ambience. If we move cam, we see nothing than sand, 2-3 very small homes and water.

There we do think, create and build and there we have shops and homes, etc.

All that contents thousands of hours of offline and online work, thousands of dollars invest over the years and strong efforts to create quality in design and functionality of things. Some creations are art, some are extreme valuable interior and architecture, some are kind of sexy, some are kind of mature some are - maybe - kind of adult, if we would start to think in these deliberated pc categories .

So, have fun LL, to move us, if you don't like to give pc-people their own area. We won't move a single finger to touch anything of our work or customer base or land. It will be your job, to give us the exact same environments for free, to move our stuff and to hold our customer base and customer services structure like picks, xstreet entries and slurls there and ingame-landmarks and slurls from our website and much more and to organize all things wich are necessary to create not a single second stress and frustration, work or loss of money and time for us.

This means exact, that we want to wake up one morning, things are moved and organized, we land like nothing were happened and we have the fact, that all is exactly like before or better for us (!) without moving a single finger or thought. This job you can do then with hundreds of thousands of people. I hope you have enough hardware, software and professional personal to manage that perfect like the eagle landed on the moon!

Additional to that, we do feel free to ban and to lock out any single person, who is obviously a student, a nerd, a corporate, in case they're starting to have the idea to start a double-life after boring hours in classrooms, business-meetings or whatever. Not that it happens that the puritans starting to play bohemian-life after their working hours - or in front of them. Because if one likes to avoid bohemian-life, he or she should not try to participate from bohemian structures.

We want them to live their puritanic and ascetic thing 24 hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year consequently, like they do that - I am sure about it - in their real life too... I expect them, to shower in mornings with their eyes in direction ceiling, to avoid informations about their anatomy and biology.

Give them genderless and unisex avatars with no contures. Best would be the white missing texture skin and no hair and for what do they need eyes? Even no fingers and no feets, because they could be abused as substitution for genitals and touching. No kissing at campus! For gender-mainstreaming issues it should also be good to give them not names like Sheila or Walter. Call them E-1, E-2, E-3...E-5467899765 and so on. Totaly neutralized objects.

Also it would make it easier for us bohemians, to identify them if they try to break out from their zones. If they like to be dressed, give them uniforms. Maybe an orange trouser-suit, like successfuly tested in Guantanamo.

An alternative to that is, to leave us alone with your ideas or similar ones and to open them a third grid where they can play third life.

It would be better for all of us. For them, for us and for LL. In this way they could learn and blabla in third life, playing bohemian in second life and being whatever in first life.

Build them a cloister or an abbey and ready!

I'm surprised that there have been few comments on the impact of this change of policy in relation to private islands.

If the owner considers actvities on part of that island (for example, say he operates a successful adult club) fall into the "adult" category, he is compelled to "flag" the entire island "adult". As I understand matters, access will then be restricted only to those age verified. This means that any "PG" shops in malls on that island will only be able to be reached by age verified customers and any houseowners will not be able to have visitors who are not age verified. As a result those shop owners and houseowners may leave. What if they have paid capital sums or rent up front to the island owner? Tough I guess, for it's not his fault what's happened. He's only abiding by the new rules. In any event, the island owner may have financial problems of his own because his whole business model founded on mixed usage has just gone up in smoke. Another "adult" location bites the dust?

Hmm. One may be able to verify the age on the SL account.......but there is simply no way to verify that the person using the computer is actually that person.

The ability of SL to store user name and password means that potentially any kid can get on mum or dad's PC and log into SL under the adult account. And this kid will now effectively be 'age verified' and as a result be less likely to be questioned.

There is simply no way to verify who is actually using the PC. That is left to parental control...which one would hope is what is going on in most homes now anyway. I very much doubt if there is any method that is 100% reliable......so 'age verification' is merely papering over the cracks, and will not stop kids getting into adult content areas. And getting hold of mummy or daddy's credit card details, driver licence, etc, etc....must be a piece of cake.


Incidentally....I tried the age verifying. When are Americans finally going to create web sites that ask for ZIP or Post Code.....and which actually provide enough characters to enter the post code ??? Dear me......the whole thing falls at the first hurdle.

Ive been working on this too. The only solution is to limit the island to mature or even PG. Or risk closing off all the businesses in the region to verified customers only! ack~

If you really think it through, this is part of the "clean up" plan. To get customers to a "non adult" store, one has to clean up the *whole* island. This will result is many many clean PG shopping sims that fit SLs new image perfectly...

Not saying i would do this, but in the case of a mixed region with an "adult" club in it. I would just move the club to "pornlandia" and leave the rest of the region set to Mature or PG as I see fit.

Like many, I believed I had made this decision when I chose to buy mainland zoned mature. I will vote with my feet in this matter and will avail myself of the opportunity to move even though my land is and has always been PG content. Hopefully my NPIF friends can have me over to their place every so often.

My greatest concern is that the decision to move "adult" content to a new continent is essentially a sin tax. It places the burden almost entirely on one segment of the population.
I worked long and hard to locate a parcel zoned mature that is attractive and on protected waterfront in a fairly stable sim. I cannot imagine that any solution to this will be entirely satisfactory to me. However, a poll of owners of mature mainland parcels offering the option of moving to an identical "adult" sim would be a good beginning. Those that wish to move to the new "adult" continent can have their sim duplicated and placed in Ursula, with the parcels that did not make the move left open for new ownership. That won't save me from the flood of ugly that invariably springs up wherever new land is sold, but it does at least mitigate some of the damage.

I agree Alisha. I've posted earlier to the following effect:

"In what it perceives its own financial interest, LL wishes to remove the association with sex from SL. It matters not what the present users think because ultimately LL will act in what it perceives to be its own financial interest. The decision has already been made. The liberal ideals have gone; SL is no longer to be "a world imagined and created by its residents". LL no longer likes that world. Such a shame that the residents have expended so much time, effort and money creating that world, but hey, that's [second] life (the ToS say so)! Instead, SL is to be "a world imagined and created by LL for its own financial benefit". Please LL, just admit this is so and save us the "spin"."

A few things for Lindens to consider.....the true nightmare of policing 'adult content' :-

1) Let's say I run a mature store with a publicly accessible video screen.....or even a dance site with DJs who pop in now and then. So, all goes fine.....until one of my DJs decides to play 'Bilingual'.....explicit lyrics.....or some other such song. Does the site have to get a temporary 'adult' licence for this ??

2) Oh dear....I was having nookie in my home, when SL crashed and now I am logged in naked at a SL hub....with Xcite genitalia still in the throes of orgasm. I take it all the hubs and welcome areas will now be moved to PornoLand ?

3) Mmm. Oh look....a beautiful sim with a romantic dance floor, lovely new age music, tropical forests, waterfalls, etc. Just right for a totally unexplicit romantic stroll. But what's this ?? A pose ball called 'Lovescene' ! OMG ! Someone might use that......think of the scandal. SL is FULL of such sims....no dungeons or escorts or BDSM....just romantic beauty with the odd love pose. Are these sites to be consigned to PornoLand too ?

4) There is a worn device that allows a couple to have sex....anywhere. In that respect, much of the potential sexual explicitness is carried around with people or in inventories and easily rezzable.......and not necessarily specific to 'sex sites'. Not to mention endless wearable scripted items with graphic text messages, or even T-Shirts with graphic logos. This further complicates the issue of site definition.

And so on....the list is endless so four is enough.

I'd like to point out an article written by Mark Kingdon, Sep 12, 2006 entitled "Facebook Listened; You Should, Too"

http://www.clickz.com/3622871

The takeaways for marketers?
Listen carefully
Be ready to act
Respect the community

I wonder if these lessons still apply to CEOs.

Again, apologies for possibly reposting information you've already seen.

Cheers.

These people want answers and action -- now. You have hours. Not weeks. -- Mark Kingdon 2006 (M Linden)

I think they're more worried about the people coming in, either to check out SL for these companies, as employees on company time, or as students who must be protected from anything 'adult' even if they are adults. About them walking around, exploring, flying, and coming across super-sexual or super-violent themes. It's not really about whether they want these people to be their neighbors, it's more about whether they want them to casually run into them as they're exploring the mainland.



This is another of those things that I don't think they really took into consideration, but not just on the sim level. Say there's someone who owns an estate with, say, 20 sims that they rent out, and the sims are all linked geographically. If one of the sims is rented mainly by businesses or residences that would fall under the new "adult" classification, does this mean that the whole estate needs to be flagged as adult, or that the sim has to be moved away from the others? If they must flag the entire estate as "adult", how many customers are they going to lose? What if they decide to leave it mature, will those people have to move, and will the estate owner lose the revenue for that entire sim? And what about sims they're renting out that are half and half?

As I stated before, however, I think this plan is lacking incentive for the people who are going to be forced to move or flag content as 'Adult' to actually do so. There won't be a mass exodus from SL, and they know that. A few people who are upset, yes, but not enough to really affect them. And they know that the people who are forced to move will do it, because they don't want to lose their content that they've put so much time, money, and effort into. But, it's going to cause a lot of hassle and some lost business for those that have to make the changes, and that's going to encourage hard feelings about the company as a whole.

Up until now I thought SL was about community, and now it seems it's leaning more toward business. They can co-exist, but only if, when business interferes with community, some compromises are made to take care of those who are affected. Please, Lindens, find some incentive to give to those who are going to be affected involuntarily - not only will you get a cleaner grid, but you might gain respect in the eyes of the community that SL was originally based upon.

I've just gone through all the orange (Linden) posts in that thread and I haven't seen any that mention the cost of moving to the new continent. I'd assumed that LL will sell the land to movers, and all movers will be out of pocket, while LL will be very much in pocket, but you seem to say that the move will be free - presumably a land swap. Where have you seen that, Qie.