Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

The only thing that you can do when facing a dictator (Linden) is to fight power with power. Our major power is over purchasing of Linden services. We have the media, who are very interested in SL, and also the development of competing systems. I would say that once it becomes clear what is actually intended, which seems to be a moving feast, that a number of articles be written for the media. I will do my part. Who else would be interested in collaborating?

The op eds (opinion pieces) would cover the manner in which this was 'decided', the cost to existing people, with nice little case studies, and the option which we might decide to move to a competitor and establish more stable and democratic procedures from the start.

People power is the answer to this seemingly Draconian and stupid set of policies that Linden is seeking to implement. I doubt they know what they are buying into here, or how much concern this is creating across the world of SL.

Let the battle begin.

After having slept on the whole situation and given it some deep thought, I have come to the conclusion that there is ONE (dubiously) good thing that can come of this proposed ghettoization: Someone can finally erect a 400-meter monument to male genitalia, and nobody will be able to complain.

Sombody will still complain, probably over whether it is circumsized or not.

No, but then all your neighbors will try to make one that's bigger.

There is no way I can read all that was posted above, but I'm going to throw my two cents into the overflowing fountain anyway.

If what you are trying to create is a land area that is explicitly PG, then allow people to flag land and content as explicitly PG. This is the same logic behind innocent until proven guilty.

SL was advertised as an adults-only virtual world. Therefore, the DE-FACTO STANDARD is adults-only.

"Innocent until proven guilty", in this instance, becomes "Adult until proven PG".

If the majority of SL land is Mature sims, there will, by definition, be objectionable content. Allowing people to voluntarily flag their land/stuff/continent/estate/whatever as PG will invariably go over more smoothly than forcing everyone to evaluate what category they belong in, and then tag appropriately. You also will have to deal with far fewer cases of people flagging things inappropriately (versus not actively flagging them appropriately).

Do not make this harder on yourself than it already is.

I have mixed feelings about the "adult" themed continent. On one hand I find it very insulting for murder/rape/blood/gore to be put in the same category as erotic/sexual themes.
I have friends who own a tasteful adult animation/furniture shop. To put them in a category with people killing each other or torturing each other is just wrong.

I am actually very offended by seeing someone's head get blown off. I would much rather see two avatars pixel humping. (and please feel free to spread the term "pixel humping"

On the other hand I would like to see better separation of content. I don't like to always see prim penises everywhere I go. Then again I can use my own mind and make a decision to just teleport away or log off.

I just think this might be a bit extreme to "weed" out adult content creators and put them on another continent like shipping them all off to prison.

Anyway that is just my take on it. As the saying goes though, opinions are like ***holes, everyone's got one.

“Why not make all PG content move to a new continent?
“Both PG and Adult are the exception, rather than the rule, in Second Life. We would prefer to keep the majority of the content and interaction where it is currently – the Mature regions.”

If the objective is to address the issue: “…it has become clear that some Residents are interested in pursuing certain “Adult” activities in Second Life that others would rather not casually encounter”, you intend then, to identify which “certain ‘Adult’ activities” are anathema to the group you seek to protect, and which non-“certain activities” remaining to the casual eye in Mature regions are not.
Whatever you pay the poor Linden who takes that gig, it’s not enough – one man’s acceptable missionary is another man’s mortal sin.

“Why not a G-rated continent?
”This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service.”

Granted SL is fundamentally an 18+ service and the issue is not about teenagers. Neither is the question.
Since they're both "extremes", how, specifically, does the creation of an Adult continent provide choice about the kind of experience people want to have in SL, but a G-Rated continent does not?
With respect, this answer is obfuscating doubletalk. SL, as you say, is fundamentally an 18+ service, and answers fit for adults are not out of order.


Taking these two answers together, your stated objective, and cognizant of the upheaval it would create to force-relocate anyone – not to mention basic fairness to extant businesses -- I’d say you need to begin creating continents zoned individually as PG, M, and Adult – and keep remaining mainland as is:

Folks already living on the mainland might well be motivated to move to something “better” in new zoned continents. You would not be burdened by identifying propriety much beyond current guidelines for a new Adult-Rated area – and defining those "beyonds" would not have anything close to the impact as attempting the same if the result is relocation.
If people relocate, it would be on their own accord. If people remain, they would do so by choice. It doesn't alienate anybody.

You say above that you wish to provide choices in SL experiences. To one particular demographic of SL who is neither extreme by being PG. nor extreme by being Adult? Or to all of SL, including those extremes? Unless unavoidable, leaders present choice to everyone -- not only to those humping the top of the bellcurve.

You can spare all of us, yourselves and customer-base alike, from the predictable casual exposure, offensive to my particular eye -- Of watching yet another segment of the SL community become alienated and embittered.

No doubt this one will drown along with the rest of our yet unanswered questions..

Nonetheless, I strongly feel that all SL residents need to unite on this one, somehow.

All our differences aside, I think this entire issue warrants a Leader (obviously apart from LL), whom we feel we can trust to voice our opinions efficiently.

We have our hearts in this (I can see that we are many in number). But we can't all sit around and stare at the screen all day long for the next 6 weeks or more. I feel we need representation..!!

Anyone out there with me on this?
Someone who has been around for long enough to cut through the BS?
Someone who speaks the corporate lingo?
Anyone out there prepared to help us through this mess effectively?

Hmm.....I'm not at all clear from the 'explanatory' notes how it all affects privately owned sims....i.e not the mainland.

For example, if I have my own private dungeon on my own sim, and it's not a 'public' access place but I simply invite a friend round...or create a private group for such access......will that then require that the sim be registered as 'Adult' ?

Clearly this would not be a situation where any Tom, Dick, or Harry could just wander in. Also, and importantly, I suspect this is the nature of most of the 'Adult' content on SL....there is a large content of generally small and private access 'Adult' content areas..usually group access only...on SL. Something the 2 - 4% estimate no doubt does not include.

What will the status of such sites be ?

( By the way...lol....this thread says I last visited on 12-31-1969 )

So, creating a seperate landmass for the "adult content". Ok. Well, considering people have to VOLUNTARILY click on "show mature sims" in search, then why not just add a "show adult sims" in search too? Or, how's this, anyone who isn't verified is restricted to PG only. Oh oh I know! Seperate ALL the landmasses so that PG is one area, Mature is another, and Adult is a third! Whee!!

Please. Come up with something better. Why aren't you creating a seperate PG area instead? They're the ones who are going to be the most upset by this stuff that you are alleging is wrong enough to merit being isolated. As for areas that are "explicitly sexual" or "extremely violent" um, gee, they usually put those keywords into their searches. Why should they be punished for the lazy jerkwad not reading the description before TPing in and going "ZOMG that person is being dismembered while getting buggered!!" and cry foul.

I remember when growing up, saying "If you don't wanna see it, either don't look or leave" was fine. People who got offended by something were free to remove themselves from it. Nowadays we're tip-toeing on eggshells trying to please everyone, and only end up ice-skating through glass shards because you cannot please everyone. People are finding so-called "adult content" offensive? I find the suggestion of isolating it and shunning it from the greater population is offensive. How are you going to please me, too?

If I'm told that I'm to take my so-called "adult activities" and go live on an island like an exile, I think I'd rather leave and spend my money somewhere else, thanks.

While I agree that a great deal of the adult content available on SL is not for everyone, I also feel that following through with this move in the manner in which you are stating alienates those who participate in the extremes of SL. You have established SL as a grid, basically a huge database with a graphical representation that allows people to view what is there. There are age requirements already in place for certain sims on the grid, or so I thought. Would it not be easier to implement "tokens" for a user when they log in that state what content they can view due to age verification requirements, or filter out content they do not wish to see? Let me explain further.... Person "A" signs up for an SL account and skips the age verification...they will be limited to PG only sims in SL. Person "A" then verifies age, opening them up to be able to access all content in SL. At this point implement a questionaire with just two or three questions in order to further narrow access levels, such as "do you want access to adult content?", "Do you want access to potentially pornographic adult content?", and finally, "Dou you want access to extremely graphic adult content?". Based on the answers to those questions, saving them then to the user token, will determine what areas on a sim level they will have access to, what areas, item, etc. are found in a search, and so-on. Separating people into a completely separate sim area will cause complications of great magnitude; up to and probably including many established businesses and people who operate them, leaving SL. Why implement sweeping change when existing verification methods can be expanded for those who wish greater control over what content they are presented?

Geographically separate adult is a fancy way to say segregation and for a US based company this is a shock to see happen here!

I've been sleeping on this for a couple of nights and, as sad as it is, I think I can understand the logistics behind creating the new adult landmass versus creating a new PG-only landmass.

Consider the way land is currently bought on the mainland. Mature land goes for higher prices than PG land, because there's more demand for it. People want to be allowed to do what they want on their land.

Now, consider the pressure from corporations and educational facilities and whatever else they have in mind that's driving this. They want to be able to come in, and know that, unless they click a button saying they know exactly what they're getting, they're not going to have to be right next to a flexible mega-prim body part, or a strip club, or a public nude beach. LL sees this, and they realize they have two options... clean up the mainland or make a new, squeaky-clean mainland.

Now, from a community point of view, the obvious choice here would be to create the squeaky-clean mainland and leave everything where it is. But, there's a problem with that. PG land doesn't sell nearly as well as mature - how are they going to get people to fill that new mainland with real content, and quickly enough that they're not losing too much money, and that they can show it off to potential big-business customers? They need to make sure that the land gets used, and doesn't become a huge, failed project that nobody buys into. So how do they manage that?

Face it, no matter what they offered, if they made the new continent PG, people wouldn't buy into it without some serious incentive. Sure, there would be a few takers, people who wanted to live somewhere with no possibility of a naked couple playing on pose balls just across from their deck, or having that huge sex club open up next door. But most people, especially businesses, would likely stay where they are, because we don't really want to be in the middle of disneyland. And what could they offer people that would really make them want to move, unless they're unhappy where they are?

So, they go the other way. They try to clean up the mainland, or at least make it look semi-presentable. They relocate the people who they think are going to be problems, likely the ones that are openly sexual, not the ones who hide it behind walls or up in skyboxes. Anything that someone casually walking along mainland looking at what SL has to offer, or teleporting into an innocent-sounding parcel, could see that might be deemed too sexual or too violent gets set aside, to the new landmass. The new continent gets a guaranteed population, and the people & companies coming in get to have content available to them that they don't have to verify in order to access.

But they fail to take a few things into perspective, I think, and that's what has caused almost 60 pages of discussion here.

Land prices on the existing mainland ARE going to fall, if they haven't already. People want to be where they can do what they want, and if they feel that they can't do what they want in the mature land, they're going to move - and that's not even taking into consideration the huge amounts of land that are going to be left behind by that supposedly small percentage of residents who are going to be forced to move.

The people who are forced to move WILL have loss of profits, and some smaller businesses will disappear because of it. Anyone who has had to move their business knows how profits fall the first few days/weeks/months after the move. Landmarks don't work anymore (and you have to make sure that ALL of your landmark givers are changed over), profile picks go bad and you have no control over people changing the locations in their profiles, your traffic drops to basically nothing, no matter how hard you worked to build it up in the first place. And when you're a small business, and you're counting on the month's profits to pay your tier, and suddenly you aren't making enough to afford it, what happens to your business?

And let's not forget that people do NOT like to be forced into things, especially when they don't see any advantage. Just like how people would not be rushing to fill the new continent if it was PG, people are not going to be thrilled about being made to move because their home/business/build/etc suddenly isn't clean enough to remain in what they perceive as "normal SL." Of course they're going to put up a huge stink, and they're going to fight it as much as they can, and some people are simply going to leave because they either feel persecuted, don't want to be persecuted in the future, or think that the decisions being made are wrong, whether or not they're affected by them.

So what is the solution?

My personal thought, if the PG continent is out of the question, is to at least give these people some compensation.

Lindens, don't just say "this won't cost you" and "this won't affect long-term business" because, ultimately, it will, no matter what you do. Maybe not for the people who have built up their businesses and have a large following of informed customers who would expect the changes, but it WILL affect business, and it WILL cost these people money and the time it takes to rebuild, replace landmarks, build up their traffic, and all those other things that get overlooked until you're faced with really having to move.

Can there please be some form of incentive to make those affected WANT to go through the hassle, to make it worth it to them? Extra prims, higher avatar limits, more efficient script handling, a free month of tier, estate access if they own a whole sim... Something?

No matter how much you need this to happen, and no matter what your reasons, or where you plan on going, no matter if you believe that what they have on their land is great fun, or if you're totally offended, these are some of the people who have made SL what it is today. Don't they deserve a little consideration in exchange for what they're going to have to go through in order for you to clean up the mainland?

"In particular, it has become clear that some Residents are interested in pursuing certain “Adult” activities in Second Life that others would rather not casually encounter."

Lol.............the usual straw man of people somehow 'accidentally' stumbling onto explicit or violent scenes.

It reminds me of a blog report I saw about a year ago, decrying the depravities of one of the better known BDSM sims......as if one somehow TPd into the middle of such. In fact, the particular dungeon in question is on a sim where you are immediately warned of explicit content at a standard landing point well away from any dungeons.....and then have quite a walk, with further warning of explicit content.....to reach any dungeon

Almost every explicit site you go to gives 'rules - please read' and other such warnings on entry......so how DO people 'casually encounter ' such stuff ? Er...I mean people other than the professional offendees who seem to seek out stuff to be offended by.

ironically, its the insistence that parcel/group descriptions are 'clean' that would contribute to such a scenario. lately ll have gone on a 'group cleansing' rampage. this could be the result of such actions.

This is absolutely hilarious. I feel very bad for those people who own good properties, have lots of things on their land, and like someone mentioned earlier; have tp's to their old place of business, etc.

Being moved to pornoville, as far as I can see, will likely mean that people with good land (nice features, something nearby they admire/like) will be pushed into a different region where all bets are off. They'll likely end up with land the same size, but crap beyond that.

Plus, even in my modest inventory things have gotten lost. Moving massive builds that take up huge islands or several parcels of lad won't lose aything? Hm.

sounds like a silly idea. Make the new continent this way, leave the rest.

Read the entire post here, Pips really nailed it on the head, but the following is the part that concerns most business owners.



Well said!

Personally, I've accepted that this move is going to happen, and that despite what you might think, the (involuntary) initial adopters of this move are going to have to deal with a lot of unforeseen circumstances.

I strongly urge that the Lindens who will be working with residents that have a lot to lose from this to understand that they may need to offer more than just consultation, advice and kind words of encouragement to transition into something remotely similar to what the relocated residents had before.
Establishing a venue (mature or otherwise) that manages to stand out and survives takes a significant investment of time, money and effort. Starting over in an already saturated market isn't going to be easy.

BUT, that does not mean that I am against this arrangement. Overall, in the long term, content filtering will make for a better Second Life experience for everyone, and allow the grid to grow and gain more real contributing citizens (payment info on file... and not afraid to use it) as well as further mainstream acceptance as being the standard for virtual worlds.

I really think the key to that is that the age check system is simple, easy, effective and works well for all users. At this point, that seems like the critical factor in weather or not this is a monumentally good changing point for Second Life or an epic failure.

Oh...and just a random idea...what about an Adult Continent Infohub or Welcome Area for those that are just looking for that aspect of SL? Something that is within Mature yet not Adult standards that could serve as a portal to the continent (and serve as a default landing spot for those that are not age verified but try to teleport in)

I'm wondering. Are you planning on lumping all the clubs together in one place? All the shops selling "sexy" clothes? I've been on sl two years, and I've never "accidently" found myself in an explicitly sexual or graphic place.

For those that have to move, and I'm still not clear on who will have to move, will you buy the land they currently have and sell them something comparable, or work a swap for something comparable. What about those people who have beach land with a nice strip club. Will you give them a nice beach parcel?

Personally, I think this is silly. If you don't want to go to a nude beach, don't go. If you don't want to see av's stripping, don't go to a strip club. If you don't want to see av's having sex, don't look. If you don't want to see graphic war or sex roleplay, don't go there.

Here is the thing.

Has SL forgotten about text based roleplay? Long before virtual worlds, there were MMPORGs or whatever, MUDs, and long before SL's red light venues there was 'cyber texting'.

Okay, so LL lets kids into Second Life. They've said there will be lots of clubs left standing on the grid, and there are already PG clubs. Does LL think people do not 'pick up' each other at PG clubs? Even at infohubs. It doesn't have to be in a red light district, to harm kids.

Maybe disable IMs for kids, because there will be those kids who WANT to see what it's like to be grownup/do grownup things. I mean, haven't teenagers since the dawn of TIME snuck out of the window, stayed out past curfew, dated who their parents said not to, gone 'too far' at times, and in general tried to grow up as fast as they could??

Combine that with any adult in the WORLD having access to the kids, and what have you got. Recipe for disaster.

Two suggestions, although I have little hope they will be taken seriously:

1. Make a grid just for kids, and heavily screen any adult trying to get in there. I'm talking about background checks PLUS a mandatory invitation from a child already on that grid. I.E. "So and So in SL is my grandma. Please invite her to the grid." I have no idea if it would work, but it's better than just opening the Second Life doors and letting kids run in, to the existing world, to do grownup things. (Keeping the adult stuff on a purgatorial island will NOT stop that.) (Did I mention that anyone in the world, literally, will be able to get onto the kids' PG sims??)

2. Mandatory, EVERY kid must take a LL course in-world on internet safety. Consult experts on this. Such as PROTECT.org

I hope you will at least seriously consider option # 2 which to me, should not BE an option...If LL cares about kids. (Although, IMO, if that were so, no teens let alone kids, would be allowed on the regular SL.)

That should tell them that this *isn't* what their userbase wants, then.

If only the few takers would go for this idea, then build a small continent for them, such as, 'educationland', and let the kids and educators come on in. It would be new, from the ground up, NO adult content, NO unscreened adults.

They want to usurp what the users have so far built, and frankly, what 'adult content' has helped in drawing people into, because it's tastier - the people are there, the land is there, and despite being upset a lot of people won't quit SL because they have built up a community in there, and/or a business (I'm not even referring to 'adult' things) People - some at least - will decide "in for a penny, in for a pound."

They don't want to make something new to sell - why not just kick people off what they built up and give it to someone else instead? I mean, isn't that what is happening.

For me it is less about the actual adult content and more about my freedom of self expression. Currently I avoid all PG sims and only go to Mature sims because I do not enjoy having to protect the sensibilities of other adults. With this change though, I will be avoiding both PG and Mature sims since their new standard will be G and PG.

I will happilly go to the new mainland for adults so I can continue to enjoy SL free from the morality of others.

I also posted that allowing some heavily screened/vetted adults into the teen grid, if parents/grandparents/etc. wish to play a virtual game with them that badly (most computers now come with webcams - and skype is free user-to-user so they can already visit via internet!) would be safer for kids than simply allowing them all into SL (do families REALLY think kids will have the judgment to ONLY go into SL when a parent is over their shoulder?). Note I said safer, not safe.

But the last sentence - well - a lot of pedophiles have been teachers, day care givers, camp counselors and such, THEMSELVES. I'm just saying.

Background checks and an invitation from a child already in the kid-grid at the very least. But anything other than dumping kids into the existing Second Life (leper island for adult content or not - in fact as we've both pointed out, having an area that pedos *know* kids could be in, makes it *easier* for them!).

It isn't even always about teaching kids to be safe...some kids will PURPOSELY try to pretend to be adult...once they are in SL, how would that be prevented. They do not need pose balls and prim attachments to do that! Just voice or IM. LL really needs to think of worst-case scenario and then how to prevent it.

Please at the very least LL consult some org like PROTECT.org on how to keep kids safeR since you seem set on bringing them in world.

Matthew if you google this topic there are blogs and interviews, Philip Linden and others have basically said having kids be in SL is the future.

I have slept on this deal too and My opion simply is if LL says the main land I Paid alot of US dollars for, (Over 1/2 sim) will have to go PG then they can give me an island thats mature at the same teir im paying now or leave my mature sim alone. Im not rebuilding what I already have unless its worth my while sorta speak. I dont have xxx stuff but if I feel so inclined to wonder around my land with my bits out or cuss fanaticly cause a build im working on ticked me off. I am going to, and if this a violation then what's the point of even owning land. I can build at a sand box and deal with the same bs.
I wanted mature land because I didnt want to deal with teens period. Have to deal with them in RL don't want to in SL im sure alot of other adults who don't need mature land feel the same way. On another point if im going to have to deal with the change to PG then going to another grid is a valid option to me. Since the other grids are PG. So I loose some scripting options I can live with no AO. and other scripts. I'll get more land for less money and have less monthly teir too. Just loosing the friends and family I have made here will be the hard part. But then again who knows how many of them might make the jump too because of this.

To the lawyers amongst us (we know you're there!) — what are the possibilities for a class action law suit against LL over this?

You're one of the ones who are taking this way out of proportion. There is no 'Only adult or PG' talk going on. There are three levels, PG, Mature, and Adult. Adult is intended for those locations that are explicitly adult in nature, such as sex clubs, very violent RP, and so on.

Your wandering around at home naked a bit isn't so horrible, and cussing in frustration is hardly explicit.