Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

My point exactly!

This. Exactly this.

As far as being offended goes, I've been offended several times in SL:

-By Goreans who assume because I'm a petite Victorian woman in SL, they can treat me like a child and worthless
-By my unwanted sexist neighbor who refused to remove his annoying store spotlights because "a woman can't tell me what to do!"
-By seeing a realistic penis on a Sonic the Hedgehog avatar
-By the double standard that insists all SL women be Bi (notice male dancers never sex up male tippers but female dancers sex up female tippers and are expected to or lose their jobs)-By lewd comments and insults that my avatar isn't "fuckable" and needs bigger breasts
-By seeing some graphic S&M, scat and other fetishes
-By the presence of a mutilated cat in a dogs dish labelled "Food"
-By a graveyard complete with corpse poseballs and a prim ghost that follows you around built weeks before I went in for a risky surgery

I could go on but you get the point. The difference is I didn't run crying to LL to change the TOS just for me. Whomever is behind this dfecision needs to learn to turn off their monitor and deal. The sexual content in SL is no where near as rampant and in your face as it was even a year ago.

Well why are the thought police just sticking to sex and violence ( primarily sex I bet) ?

I have hardly ever been offended by sex in SL, there are other things related to religion, politics, just general grossness that are much worse.

It's the typical American hang up about natural sexual behaviour that is behind this. This is a slippery slope, the thought police are coming in and it is only going to get worse.

The availability of land compared with demand for land in the proposed adult continent will determine its price.
If LL do not release enough adult land it will become prohibitively expensive to start a new business. If LL release too much anyone who has swapped land to move to the adult area will see the value of their new adult land fall below the value of the old land they were forced to move from.
How will LL keep land prices in the adult continent similar to those which exist elsewhere?

I have to agree…

I say we pack our prims and head towards the wastelands, while the rather hesitant and belated LL “no cost option” still stands.

LOL. Same as always. They'll just adjust policy and services to "Current Way Of Thinking" ... "For Any Or No Reason".

I was attracted to SL by the "make it your world" slogan that use to cover the front page of the Website. I joined just under a year ago and have spent, hundreds of hours on, and well over a thousand dollars. Since I was made aware of this decision I can't get myself to build anything, why should I. My place has had the words "Adults only" in the description since I put my first prim on the plot. Have stopped thinking about buying that abandoned parcel next to me. I intentionally spent 2 weeks searching for a "Mature" sim so I wouldn't violate any TOS if I did make it "My World".

My world is not just sex or violence, its a variety of aspects, reflecting the person I am. And yes that does include a sexy side and occasionally firing of guns. It will be interesting to have a discussion with a few law professors as to the possibility of this move by LL to be fraud, bait and switch, discrimination, financial hardship, emotional distress, violation of constitutional rights, especially since we all have read "Your own world", and what other possible legal implications this presents.

Oh must not forget "Own your own virtual land". If it was our own, that means we chose it. We paid for it. We built on it. We invested time developing it. And as of yet I haven't seen any sign of LL explaining compensation terms for the inconvenience and hassles a forced relocation will cause. Forced segregation being their resolve when there is so many other possible alternatives, seems quite unreasonable.

One possible solution as i see it, considering we already have a mature/PG rating.

- toggle switches that are automatically activated on new "mature" land purchases. These would be something like "A"- adult "L"-language "V"-violence "N" - nudity "S"- sex etc.... have the default all selected, just assume the whole gambit from the start. This would force landowners to specifically define their intentions. Then give the "viewer" an option to toggle in what they are willing to see. By default these would be "PG" so when they select the other options they are saying, 'ok yes I'm mature enough to be able to tp out if i don't like it.'

Many have suggested an orientation mainland, now that's a great idea. explore a simpler area before paying to rush into a mass of continents and ideas. Getting lost and maybe deciding "ah not for me, too complicated."

Many others have suggested great simple solutions

My point being there are alternatives, but it seems they went for the most extreme and one that would potentially costs it residents severe financial hardship. Then depending on the law professors I can possibly see the arbitration section of the SL laws being put into full time work. Therefore not only costing LL the money they spend making this "new continent", but also the mass of people who will choose to leave, or those that stay and finally quit because they are afraid to do anything that may offend the Lindens, or the "Moral" patrol.

I'm sure LL has their own lawyers working on the details. As well I am sure many attorneys have already been contacted in regards to how this effects the residents. Will be interesting to see how it goes down.

But in the mean time, I won't be building or buying anything that may be considered lewd by even the most conservative persons I know. Is my prim dog peeing a violation. Wow no sexy underwear, may as well go buy a ken doll. A lot cheaper then SL. I won't be buying any more land. Lindens may decide my place is "adult" and move me, just more land i would have to redevelop. I will do my part to slow down the Linden economy to let them see that its residents are the grid. Without us all they would have servers and a large electric bill.

Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
The people who will be made to move won't have to pay.

Thanks, I missed that. It still leaves open a lot of questions about HOW the moves will be accomplished.

Exactly,

I too bought ( and paid a premium for) mature property on the mainland. Yes I paid a GREATER price to purposefully buy "mature" mainland.

So now arbitrarily it's just going to be made basically PG ?

So what about all the people that will pay a premium for adult land in Jizztown ? People that will make the same decision I did and pay more for land where you can do mature things ?

In 2 years is Jizztown going to be supplanted by some arbitrary decision to make super adult adult land ? I mean we bought mature land because it was mature, now we are supposed to believe the Lindens when they say adult land will be for adults.

Yes, until they want to sell us another land for even more adult activities.

For two days now, I've been puzzled by an apparent disconnect. LL says maybe "2 to 4%" of content falls into the proposed "Adult" category. Yet anyone who takes half a look around SL gets the impression that there is a LOT more content than that, if you go by the (now removed) proposed definitions of "Adult" content.

LL has, so far as I've seen, not said anything about how they arrived at the 2-4% figure.

This morning it hit me. I bet they counted prims.

Take a hypothetical sim. We'll call it "Arkwright". One half of the sim is HotTown, a strip club, some advertising boards for escorts, and a small mall with stores selling adult items like genitalia, nipples, and BDSM toys. The other half is Niceville, a pretty little suburban rental community.

Now here comes Survey Linden, charged with figuring out how much Adult content is in the sim. First, he checks About Land, and finds there are 10,000 prims rezzed. Next, he goes around and looks for Adult Objects. He finds nothing in Niceville, but hits the jackpot over in HotTown. "Let's see", he says. "Six stripper poles, 2 prims each. Four lapdance chairs, 4 prims. An MLP hot tub with 20 prims. Ooh, look, a bondage cross, six prims." He goes on like this, counting scripted sex objects, vendors with explicit pictures, and so on. He comes up with a total of 500 prims of objectionable content.

In his report, he writes, "Arkwright Sim has 10,000 prims, with 500 prims of Adult content. They are fairly naughty: 5%."

So...the sim has 5% Adult content...but when the new policy goes into effect, half that sim is going to be a smoking yellow hole in the ground.

People, we are being spun like never before.

/rant

Couldn't be any more divisive.

"Us and THEM".

"THAT Guy". "THAT Girl"...That ONE".

That's happened already, from what I see from forum research (I'm a new player), in world observation and general human psychological analysis. It's happened in world, it's happened in this discussion thread, and will continue to fester.

Many of us socialize with other players that are more conservative about adult content and we respect those said views. However, there are those that do not. This will be elaborated on later.

How about red light districts, flea-bag motels and drug pushers vs. the mickey mouse club?

Who's going to win that battle when it comes to disputes on servers between people and administrators, the owners, small courts, and the big courts?

Well, I'm offended by the other's inability to take full recognition of the tools already placed before them to ensure their self security. Before teleporting, they could consider that if there is a region that is Mature, then it is likely that region will have strong language or adult content. If you wish to design a tool for them with which to censor adult regions, by all means.

But don't make the folks that have already worked and paid for their current stability, to pack up and move; forfeit their land. They've likely picked that location for a reason.

On a side note, I want the job(s) of whomever thought of this great idea. The impact on the overall community is severe, regardless of the discerning percentages of your adult players. One does not need a virtual web analyst with percents to understand this. This may be an example of how well detached from the human element the corporations, analysts, social networking administrators, and marketers have come. Not just about the revenue from a wider audience, but about the ability for people to accept who you are in world and out.

There will always be a need for a babysitter/ government - if you get my meaning. The role that is intended for them to play is to settle disputes.


If anything at all, give them at least an option on the UI. But don't exile or chastise an entire community because a few people may be uninformed about their pending experience.

The internet in general can be a brutal place. Such is life.

What's next? Kindergarten w/ four yr. olds?

Let the adults have their game.


/endrant
Kade Neiro.

great so what linden labs has created will be thelargest land rush in history i will be buying at least 10 sims rated pg for the simple fact that i will be able to charge triple the price for shops for the reason of many sims will be kicking pg shops off thier land and pg land will be sold at a premium... a man who goes to a porn store on friday does not say wow look at those ---- on sunday when he is standing in church he adjusts his actions according to his location this is just another way for linden labs to get the client to shell out more money as we will have to buy new land just so we can live as adults on one peice and have shops on another instead of a skybox this will also effect the adult clubs as they can no longer have any pg events as well as forcing many clients to buy accounts so that they can be age verified this will also control the dress code anything considered to racey will be not allowed on any pg sims since when did a miniskirt or a low cut tee become the new lingere in that case i want my money back from the adult store and i will make my wife shop at walmart for sexy clothes

ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS...!!!

As I joined this blog forum only yesterday, can someone older & wiser please enlighten me as to when we may expect LL representatives to re-join the thread..?

Can I assume that they will remain silent over the course of the entire weekend?

so we have naughtyville at 500 prims it covers 1/4 sim and nice ville uses 14500 on 3/4 so when the move hits and naughty vill is gone so is that 1/4 of the sim and 3750 prims leave not the ones only used there so again there will be a land rush as you will be forced to rebuy your land in 2 spots 1 for the prims to replace on nice ville and 2 to replace the land on naughty ville

They will have to split into two separate estates. The new adult flagging will only operate at the estate level.

Magic Linden-Ball says: "It is decidedly so."

Oh god.. microparcel landcutting come back from the dead with a vengeance!

That would be.. pathetic. Almost like handing someone with an extreme case of eczema a straight razor to scratch with. In LL's case, it would almost be .. amusing.

ok completely off topic, but...

FFS come on LL... If you're going to make a huge announcement like this then up the web side server capacity so we can all at least get in to follow the development.

Since this announcement I've had increasing difficulty being able to follow these threads because you have so much traffic to them that it's making the connections reset, and it's affecting account pages as well. And I know it's not my connection cause only servers tied to SL or LL are having these problems.

how are we supposed to 'give feedback' if we can't even get to the discussion?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

back to topic, and I will keep asking until I get an answer (sorry everybody)


where is the signup sheet for people who will need land in the ghetto? I haven't seen this question answered, and having a list might help for a real determination of the exact scope of what you're proposing.

"Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it."
- Groucho Marx

Now more seriously, the proposal has some good sides to it. In case it hasn't been mentioned already, the suggestion has the effect that we who do mostly frequent the Jizzland(tm) and visit our friends the perverted sexbed owners, doubtless find it much more comfortable that as long as we stick to our future ghetto, we'll only meet fellow deviants and can be at ease. No more worrying of offending anyones sensibilities, since everyone at Jizzland(tm) is some smutpedler or other. No more awkwardly changing clothes into 'casual' because accidentally running into something PG, no more slips of the tongue to the sexually handicapped, and no more visiting shops that - gasp - won't have adult content. I for one look forward to Jizzland(tm) freebie hunts where each shop offers some filthy hunt price and I don't have to delete tons of christmas trees and 'funny' stuff from my inventory anymore. And oh, I'll just have the 'show only porn' flag on all the time for all searches etc. I wish this new thing extended to the actual drawing of content, so I could make my client not to waste any processor time on drawing anything that is not tagged adult. And of course the opposing forces could tag everything adult as out of sight out of mind. Just nice starry barrenness and nothing as long as the eye can see...

Do we get Anything Goes ToS in Jizzland(tm)? It is, after all, the embodiment of filth, a true Babylon. With the filth concentrated in that way, its bound to become even more filthy, by evolution, competition, and the survival of the filthiest, as originally theoretized by Darwin.

Or would it be just easier to make a new PG enforced area, a new little Disneyland for those who prefer such? It sounds easy, and has been suggested time and again. Another simple idea is to enable support for some sort of more restricted local area policies. With such a thing, the 'not in my backyard' people could vote or somehow decide what sort of content is not acceptable on their neighbourhood or sim. This way concerned people could buy land/housing from areas that have ruled against the smut peddlers and be sure that a strip club won't pop up in the back yard. This just needs to work somehow more smoothly in terms of viewing distance, so that the next sim can't have the filthy den? Add some no-mans-land in between, and warning signs that after the desert filth may unfold... Or wait... Couldn't a person just buy all the land to eye distance surrounding his house to make sure nothing untowards makes its nest next door?

Or wait, do all these things already exist, but people just don't use them? They could go to PG if they wanted, and rent land from a safe neighbourhood? Is it a Linden facelift I smell here? Here comes the squeaky clean, brave new SL.

Hehehehe. Good isn't it..!?!

And thank you for the heads up on our LL friends' office hours.

I have now read all 55+ pages of this thread. (Yes, really!) And this is MY feedback:

Are you people running Linden Labs off your psychiatric meds?!? Because this is self-destructive behavior of the most serious kind, business-wise! Financial suicide!

If you seriously think that lost revenue from all the avatars and avatar-run businesses will be make up by corporations and educational institutions, you are very seriously delusional.

NO responsible CIO would want to have anything to do with Second Life for some very simple reasons: platform instability, problematic asset server issues that recur on an almost daily basis, avatar agent limits on regions (seriously? only 40-50 users in a region? for an important corporate meeting? I've been to sales training sessions with twice that number of attendees! at small companies!) -- the first time the Chairman of the Board can't attend his own keynote address will be the last time LL will be used. Not to mention IM capping and non-delivery of attachments sent to other users and issues with group notices.

Do your VC people know what you're doing here? You are flushing their investments down into the sewer, that's what you are doing! Your legal team will be getting quite a bit of work from the suits that will be being brought against you by your investors.

If Linden Labs were a publicly-traded stock, I'd short it. (But it'd probably be on the pink sheets already, given past performance . . . )

Rethinking this policy, particularly the moving of things from Mature land to a new Adult continent, would be a wise move in my opinion. Do it while you still HAVE a company.


Persephone

On the adult front... This is protecting adults who aren't comfortable with my adult decisions? Are you serious? I'm all for protecting children but this is adults. They can't figure out how to use the current system to avoid content they don't want to be exposed to? So you are moving all the "degenerates" to a dark dirty corner? Instead of telling ADULTS they need to learn how to behave as adults and interact with others? This is a tolerance level beneath what is used in normal every day society! I live in the bible belt and you can't build a strip club within so many miles of a church. But we aren't putting all the strip clubs on their own islands!!!

We unburdened ourselves of sims after your last stunts. We kept one for our own use. Continued decisions like this and you won't get a dime from us. Your digging your own holes.

Everyone knows that SL is an 18+ Adult Site. If I want to do Gorean, I do a search. If I want to look into Dungeons and Dragons I do a search. If in Second Life I come across something I don't like, I leave. When I joined SL, for some reason I ended up in a Lesbian bar and the Sim was lesbian oriented. The women there did not want males there and a couple of times I was shot. Did it bother me? No! I am a gay male and I just moved on. I understand how they feel because some male gay sims don't allow women or Gay bars don't allow women. It is called being responsible for yourself. Just move on if you don't like the adult stuff. It seems like all the cool shops are at the adult theme places. I buy some of the best Gorean clothing at Gorean sites. I think the Linden people are making a huge mistake.

I am all for Govenor Linden giving us who are against this to give us a bail out plan.

4Leaf

Trying to legislate morality is a hopeless quagmire.
It's impossible to precisely define overly "offensive" or "sexual" or "obscene"
From what I saw with the OS debacle, I get the feeling LL has already made up their minds.

This thread only exists to let people vent.
"See, we asked everyone for their input!", they will say.

Then all "offensive" content will be "cleansed" from inventory.

There won't be a need for a teen grid, because it will all become "safe" for everyone.

It's the idea of the Morality Police that I find repugnant.

"Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
- H. L. Mencken

SL is a tad beyond the "stick a black box any-expendable-'ole-where" stage.

Conscientious landowners and builders, of any ilk -- sexual or no -- put great care into choosing location, the neighborhood, the neighbors themselves, designing, arranging. tinkering. building. Scores of hours of work; hundreds. All to be packed up in an exercise of eminent domain if they fit the criteria for this relocation?

Other than "a highly questionable one", what sort of business model allows raising the ire of a large demographic, many/most of whom will be tier paying customers?