RC Questions

It might be rather old news and, as has been pointed out, doesn't stop Linden Labs from doing it if they want to.

However, it does rather shoot the fox of those people who trot out the line that "if Linden Labs don't do anything now, the US government will force them so to do later."

Thorn was actually talking about the verification requirements here - content separation is another matter.

You're right they can do what they want within reason i.e. the law and maintaining customer goodwill.

My point is that whining about things that are not going to change is pointless. Once more I will say this - the code is in and the new rc is out there. ****NOTHING**** is going to change that fact.

What we should be doing - as I seem to state every few pages here - is getting LL to approach this with more consideration towards their customers. Problem is that it keeps being drowned out by the hysteria about things that are not going to change.

I'd have far more respect for the majority of the hysterics who live in the US if they would contact their government fraud departments - the weblinks have been posted many times.. and ask them whether or not this constitutes fraud. How hard is it to make the phonecall ffs?

Then, if it does constitute fraud, let the government handle it.

If not then we either live with it, try to get them to be more accommodating or leave.

I wouldn't even mind if some of these people would actually come out from behind their screens and go picket LL.. Even that's too much to ask of the little darlings. The bad publicity from that would certainly put LL on notice - but hey ho, that would require an effort other than wailing and beating their breasts trying to gain sympathy for their melodrama.

All these people are getting in the way of a sensible dialogue with LL over this. The office hours have descended into a joke and when this finally is released the wailing and gnashing of teeth is going to be incredible as people feed off each other trying to outdo the hurt, pain and rage.

It's wearying and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

and what really makes me laugh is that the majority of the people here aren't seriously impacted the most is a minor inconvenience. Very few of them run businesses so therefore they don't have to move, so really the only inconvenience is either verifying or giving payment details.

Yes, there is an issue about losing the full use of the land, but then if you've never used it for that purpose then it's quite unlikely you will in the future. If you have plans then you have a month to put them into action so you're a business and get the move.

Both of which are easy enough to scam either through elvis or buying a prepaid cc to get you through the account verification.

It's certainly not the end of the world - despite what people seem to think.

I probably do sound unsympathetic but since I am actually one of those people who are seriously incovenienced and disadvantaged by this I don't particularly give a shit.

I have shops to move, landmarks to re do in all my vendors, xsl and apex boxes, I'm going to lose the benefit of customer picks, lose visibility in search and consequently customers because the great unwashed seem to think adult = porn and all during the summer downturn months.

I'm seriously unhappy about this and yet not one of you whiners actually can be bothered trying to support me to get a better deal for the move - yet I'm supposed to give you all bucketloads of sympathy for your distress at your imaginary restrictions.

In the end probably 90% of the people whining here won't be moving even if they were given the choice.

So sorry if I have run out of sympathy for the drama laden woe-begones but that's life.

I will get the log to you Tuesday ... it is on another computer.

With my butterfly on the wall's corner too.

Many thanks as the Linden's POV is very important to the overall picture

o.O

Ow. e.e;

Every part of the Internet lets people get together in various ways, from email to webcam, to MySpace, and all in between. Second Life is not special in that sense.

What's unique about Second Life is cheap 3D simulation. That's why we call the program on the servers a "simulator", or "sim" for short. The design tools are free to download (comes with every copy of the software), and there is tons of items already made by other people, so you don't have to create everything from scratch.

Lets say you want to train hospital staff on new operating room procedures. With SL, you can find operating room furniture ready made. OK, so a lot of it was first created for medical fetish roleplay, but hey, that does not matter, its available. A competent builder can whip up an operating room in a few days.

Then you can throw your staff in there, and use it to practice up to a point. Real life operating rooms are expensive, and busy, and you want to make your learning mistakes somewhere else. Sure, at some point you need to do it for real, but cheap practice in a working team environment makes sense.

*That* is the kind of thing it would be hard to do on any other platform, aside from other virtual worlds.

Actually, if you check Elanthius Flagstaff's land price graph:

http://ninjaland.net/tools/land-market/

Since the start of the adult content announcements in March, it has already dropped significantly. I can't tell how much is due to the adult issue, and how much is the overall economy or other reasons (the coming but now sort of cancelled Homestead rate increase for example).

Here, let me correct that:

"Very few of them run businesses so therefore they they won't be given the opportunity to move, so really the only inconvenience is paying exorbitant prices to buy land in Ursula so they can keep their existing builds."

IT'S NOT JUST BUSINESSES THAT WILL HAVE TO MOVE. IT'S JUST BUSINESSES THAT ARE BEING GIVEN THE FREE LAND.

FYI: Hope some of you are able to make it to this, or at least listen in. Edit to add: Looks like the theater where it is being held is PG.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Next on Copper Robot: It's a Lindenpalooza
-----------------------------------------------------------

Join us this Sunday, May 31, when the Copper Robot talks to folks at Linden Lab about the new policies on adult content, news about voice functionality in Second Life, and some of what the Lindens are doing to foster community.

Linden Lab plans to institute a new "Adult" rating for graphic sexual and violent content in Second Life. Residents who participate in those activities will have to verify their real-world age by presenting real-world ID. Adult content on the mainland will be segregated into its own continent (although it can continue on private islands). Linden Lab says they're doing it so that people can control their Second Life experience better -- people who find adult content offensive can avoid it, while those who want it will be able to find it. But the proposal also has opponents, who state their case on this page of Linden Lab's bug-reporting, feature-request, and feedback system, the JIRA.

Update: Upcoming Changes for Adult Content
https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/04/21/update--upcoming-changes-for-adult-content

JIRA: Terminate All Installation of any "Adult Content" filtering, Relocation, Banning, Viewer Modifications, Server Modifications
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Achangehistory-tabpanel

We'll have two of Linden Lab's legal team to discuss the new regulation: general counsel Marty Roberts and deputy general counsel Ken Dreifach (SL: Marty Linden and Ken Linden).

Later, we'll be joined by Joe Miller (SL: Joe Linden), VP platform and technology development for Linden Lab, to talk about the state of voice communications in Second Life. The company recently announced that its 18-month-old voice offering is on track to do 15 billion total voice minutes in 2009 (compared with 65 billion minutes for Skype last year). Linden Lab recently introduced AvaLine an optional service, which assigns in-world phone numbers to avatars so that residents can receive calls from outside phones. The company upgraded its SLIM client for exchanging text and voice messages inworld without running the graphical SL viewer. They say they plan additional upgrades, including voice recording and automatic voice-changing software (which they call "voice fonts" in the future.

Second Life Takes Aim at Skype
http://gigaom.com/2009/05/19/second-life-takes-aim-at-skype/

Over 15 Billion Voice Minutes Served
https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/05/20/over-15-billion-voice-minutes-served

Finally, we'll be talking with Catherine Smith (SL: Catherine Linden), VP of marketing communications, about some of the community-building efforts Linden Lab has been doing recently, from the revised Showcase to the upcoming sixth Second Life birthday.

As always, you have several options for joining us.

You can join the live audience at the Seaside Theater on World2Worlds Island in Second Life 6 pm Pacifc Time Sunday, May 31.

Watch the live video on the Web.

http://copperrobot.com/index.php?post_id=455820

Or wait until afterward, when we'll have an edited audio podcast available -- look for it here or subscribe with iTunes or your favorite alternate podcasting software.

Subscribe with iTunes
itpc://copperrobot.com/rss

RSS
http://copperrobot.com/rss

If you're receiving this notecard because a friend gave it to you, you can find out about upcoming guests on Copper Robot in several ways:

Join the Copper Robot group in-world.

Read the Copper Robot blog
http://copperrobot.com/

Follow @copperrobot on Twitter, or me, @mitchwagner

Or join the Copper Robot Google Group
http://groups.google.com/group/copper-robot?pli=1

I estimate benchmark land prices have fallen by about 15% since the announcement of the 'adult' policy, BUT whether that is due to the normal lagtime between announcement and market response OR the addition of 30 new sims, I cannot say for sure.

What he said.

There are more issues wrapped up in this than merely businesses having to shift prims from one parcel to another (much as I appreciate that's a major concern for businesses). A business is nothing without customers, and they will need to jump through certain hoops. Not everyone is payment on file/ used, and not everyone has used xstreet. And not everyone feels comfortable, willing, or able to hand over personal information to the likes of Aristotle. Oh, and anyone under age who wishes to visit adult land only needs to borrow details for five minutes, or use a prepaid credit card. So the mature residents who have security or other concerns may well not verify, and the immature (or at least under aged) who live care free can easily get the required tick in their profile.

The two tier nature of residents is actually one of, if not the most annoying thing in all this to me. Either we all adults, regardless of proclivity towards nudey pixels, or we are not. Even more of a mockery in this is the message coming through that you can be as adult as you want on mature land still, so long as you're not being so in a commercial sense (from Jack Lindens office hour transcript).

That people who may not currently run a sex club or adult store on their mature mainland never have, so probably never will, and therefore aren't going to miss their rights to do so is quite a frightening thing to say. The fact is on whatever grounds they purchased land (pun not intended), and whatever their desired use for it at this time, they are going to lose the ability to use the land in certain ways, contrary to the understanding at the time of purchase and every subsequent week week of tier payment. The only fair way to deal with this is to remove any pre-theming of Ursula, and offer *anyone* with mature land the option of a like for like (in size and scenery) exchange. And to get the message out to *all* residents asap, by use of a notice on the log in screen (which still hasn't mentioned this policy change, but announced the "good" news of grandfathering of Homesteads this week..). If people aren't aware of what is going on, then they aren't going to voice their opinions or concerns either way.

Which leads to the question, what actually is the policy? One Linden clearly has no respect for the adult users of SL, as shown by behaviour and commetns made in the testing area. Another clearly has minimal understanding and is employed to act as PR over an issue he simply cannot fathom. A third is contradicting the PR answers given, but making a distinction between business and personal, content and people. There is no clear message coming from LL, other than the residents are clearly being kept in the dark as much as possible, and left to fight among themselves (probably to help take the heat off LL themselves). The fact the very list of words to be censored isn't public shows how much they wish to obfuscate the matter.

I find myself in the fortunate position that my small parcel in on a private estate, and I don't sell sex or sexual products. I may or may not find I have to move or simply give up my land in these changes, depending on just what the definitions are once (if) they are finally released. I can access adult land, based on the test area. But I also feel less than happy at funding a company that seems to try to shaft its customers at least once a year. I am also deeplly concerned *my* SL experience will become less enjoyable if swathes of the population find themselves restricted from areas I may wish to socialise with them in, or they simply give up and leave.

I don't think it's frightening, I think it's the result of over-focussed vision.

It's clear from what Jack and Blondin have said that you don't have to be running a sex club or adult store to have to move... what they've said is not that you're fine as long as you're not a business. You can be entirely non-commercial and even as far as you're concerned private, and still be "adult content" that has to move.

Where the business part comes in is that it's likely you're only going to get the offer if you have to move to keep operating a business.

I guess for me it's too close to an RL discussion I've had more than once, when it comes to rights craftily being removed..



My interpretation is Blondin has said sex is sex, and all must be vanqu... er, sorry, banished, to the new contintent. But Jack seemed pretty adamant the move/ forced relocation applied to businesses, not private/ personal builds. At least that's how I read it. If anything, your take is even worse, they're saying only those who make money get a free move, those who don't have to pay for the move (as in buying no doubt expensive land on Ursula)!

The whole excercise is a sham.......for one very simple reason.

'Adult Content' requires a definition. But the scope of that definition creates an insurmountable problem that LL barely seem to have grasped.

Too narrow a defintion, and the whole procedure catches only a handful of sites and thus becomes an expensive waste of time. So, LL are almost forced to expand the definition to a point where it is a worthwhile excercise.

BUT.....the definition thus gets expanded to a point where 'Adult Content' incorporates a range of adultness --- from the top end of 'Mature'......right up to the extreme and bizzare.

Now, one can argue all one likes that this is defined 'Adult Content' and people should know what that means. But....even within this new range there will ( just as there currently is with 'mature' ) be those who don't mind the lower range but are 'offended' by the more extreme. And.....the CRUX of the probem.....there is nothing in the search within Adult Content to prevent a person adding mild search words along with extreme ones.

Thus, a person who did not mind relatively 'mild' adult content could actually find themselves on a site with extreme stuff. So the entire basis of preventing people coming across material they might find disagreeable is made a nonsense ! People will still be 'offended'......even in Ursula !

Which sort of makes the whole excercise a complete farce and waste of time.

May the farce be with you!

Meanwhile inworld lag is hammering our behinds. Of course it's already been said if they can't fix the day to day issues who expected expertise when tackling a complex issue like moving 70% of the population against their will. (hey I can throw around percentages too)

/me pulls out voodoo doll of a digital world corporate overlord and thoughtfully sticks the pin in its adult content.

You could have ended your post right there.

I was there. OMG. And for that I gave my austrian holiday night...

No news.

As far as I understood the low-fi sound and the fast american english which is difficult for me, they can record a cd instead of repeating every single sentence we all heard since 3 months again and again.

"Predictable...some corporates, educators individuals complained...no PG continent...blablabla...industry standards...lalalala...predictable...case by case...blablabla...predictable"

Then the three prayer-wheels, Cyn and these lawyers, logged off.

How do i get to click the adult check box in search? It is currently grayed out

K

Sorry i've got it
ignore my question

K

PS ooo i feel soooo adult now

Is there any date fixed yet for when we have to move to Ursula. And is there yet any information about how we will be assessed. Should i be watching for a special ticket in support?

K

Inorder to train people in surgical techniques and procedures in SL, the controls and immersion of the platform would have to be *orders of magnitude* above what SL is cabable of. all movements of that sort of precision would have to be pre-programmed, and wouldn't be renderable in anything like the detail needed for a demostration of *medical* procedure.

SL is barely useful for a *meeting* space for business. It crashes, lags and screws up way too often for it to be anything else.

Just my opinion, though

^V^

I would jump from any rl - operating table and running 100 meters in 8,9 seconds out of the hospital if the doctors would telling me they had their training in second life by just standing around a one prim table and an empty avatar-body while making jokes and chatting theory.

RL has smart techniques developed to be able to operate body parts (I think it was a knee-operation about I have read an article) over thousands of kilometers distance. As training that can be done at anatomical exact dummy-models too. There are special cams, high precision tools and an ultra-fast and stable net-connection necessary and involved. I mean, we talk about human lifes...

It is impossible to have such a training via second life.

I would also avoid to order a house from an architect who had his statics training in second life and I would not enter a taxi, if the driver made his license on the grid.

For security reasons...

Hahaha

She said she would take an email since they didn't answer my question at the robot thingy yesterday, so I'm sharing it with you:



Well, hello, but absolutely nothing new was said at that "press conference?" in regards to Ursula but the same pat answers we've been hearing for nearly 12 weeks now. If anything, you said "about two weeks" for any announcement or finalization of the policy while both Jack and Blondin have hinted "soon"

Seriously, why is this taking so gosh darned long? OH, I have my guesses why, since the plan is flawed from the top down.

*Our* complaint is that while the plan is not a bad idea, the implication of it will not come close to "fixing" what LL seeks. That and from its inception and attempt to illicit "feedback" it's been handled with the utmost pathetic conflicting answers, that when we can get them at all.

What about the fact that LL is failing miserably in enforcing the rules already in place? (Hint, in the regular viewer, with Include Mature UNchecked, type in under places, "sex" and see what shows up. The top choices will show places that use not only bots, and MANY of them (one place I counted 60! and not hard to find) and have been willfully getting away with it for....a long time.

My intent is NOT to *rat them out* but to point out that the existing policies arent enforced. Why would anyone expect them to be in the future?

There are way way too many flaws in this plan to serously go into, but let me try to briefly mention some.

1) the plan did not take into account those affected by it, yet seemingly not going to be eligable for a free land swap.

a) stores that can no longer advertise due to a banned word (seriously, how do you sell a sex bed without using the word sex?)
b) those people that bought, and are STILL buying Mature land thinking they can use it for...whatever they want (sex in the backyard tub, whatever)
c) anyone else that is affected by the trickle down theory
d) anyone I cant think of now because I just woke up

2) The thinking that an adult word list will fix the problem, one that wont be published

a) What about the violent words that were to clean up the weapons based areas? Nary one word on the list is aimed at thos. Do you REALLY think such a list can be made at all, and
fairly?
b) By not publishing this list (it's going to change over time????) you are opening places up to suddenly being considered Adult, with the likely way of finding out by an AR or noticing a
drop in traffic (seriously, if LL isnt enforcing existing terms, why would we think it would be any different? In fact, your plan is COUNTING on those AR's to point out those
"content providers"

3) We have absolutely NO reason at all to think we are going to get much help "Here's your new land, have fun!" That or the tickets will be stamped "eligible" or "Not eligible" with no help beyond this nor any recourse for someone who is refused.

Oh, you SAY there will be dialogue, hmm, well, have fun dealing on a case by case basis (as it SHOULD be) and answering the same questions and concerns over and over for the thousands of "I want to move" tickets that, I GUARENTEE, you will be getting.

If you refuse ANYONE with Mature land, you open up a WHOLE can of worms that I wont go into now, nor feel sorry for LL at all.

The scene so far is merely the tip of the iceberg. Sadly, my own joy is coming from thinking that LL WILL be dealing with those tickets ("doing everything we can to be helpful"

I have two places to move that I have worked on for over TWO years, that in total have given LL residents over 50,000 traffic DAILY (no bots or campers) 11,000 prims, some of which were loaned, built for me and not mine (for one reason or another) about 40 vendors to work with to coordinate)

All I can look forward to is hours of work, reshuffling, rebuilding, all the while losing what meager tips and such I get, with no compensation or guarentee I'm getting the same value of land (I paid more for one place, water bounded on all sides in the old Nuba region) and at the end may lose traffic enough to not be able to afford keeping them open.

Now, my own concern beyond that is wondering why it's taking so long to come up with anything more concrete. I would have thought in the next day or two, but judging by Jack, Blondin, and yourself, it sounds like none of you have ANY IDEA when it will be. What does THAT tell your residents?

I'm sure there are many issues I've forgotten, but for now this will have to do.


Tumbleweed






(PLEASE PLEASE point out the things I missed and send them right along to good ol' Cyn)

I added another email asking how many people SHE will say is on the team to help us move. Will be very curious what she says, since Blondin said 25-30, Jack said around 10.

~j~