Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

That was my understanding to, its LL that has flagged the whole of Ursula, no further verification is need in that continent. You only needed PIU, PIOF or Aristotle to access it if people haven't got it they will not be able to access the continent period

I think you're seriously misinterpreting things. Almost nobody here is "supporting anything LL proposes".

The problem is that Linden Labs is not going to back out of these changes by anything that you say in this thread. The only threat here is that Linden Labs will make the changes worse than they must absolutely be, because they miss messages they might be prepared to act on in the middle of all the flame wars.

That is why people primarily posting messages either crowing about how great these changes are (people like Nany) or how terrible they are (almost everyone here agrees with that) get negative responses from the people who are desperately trying to row the boat ashore before it sinks.

To a degree i will have to agree, but i have also over the years invested a lot of time, money and effort into SL, but i for one won't slap anyone down that disagrees with or makes any comment against the changes. I was under the impression everyone had a voice here even if it is amongst ourselves on the whole

It is a shame though that we cannot all discuss both sides of it without resorting to name calling and all that sort of thing as i thought we were all adults here lol

Don't you just love Human Nature and people wonder why our world is such a mess if here is anything to go by

They initially said Ursula was for the extreme, but then they started saying such mild stuff as strip clubs had to go there too, and that is definitely NOT extreme.

And Blondin did clarify that all three gating factors build on each other. None trumps to provide access. Passing any one level just gets you through that gate, but for full access to be approved, you must pass all three gates, sequentially. Estate, then Region, then parcel.

If the Estate says "Only this group gets in", then that is the most restrictive requirement, and the fact that the private sim is flagged Adult Content at the region level will not let you in regardless of group membership, just because you are age verified or payment info on file. You would have to be BOTH a member of the Estate-required group AND either payment info or aristotle-verified. But on Ursula you won't have an Estate level that you can control. Only Linden Lab can control that "Estate". So my next example applies more to private sims that are flagged as adult content at the Region level.

Think of a sim (private island) as a private club, with an outer set of doors, a lobby, and an inner set of doors, before you get to the tables and booths and special rooms inside the bar.

The Estate requirements are the bouncer at the outer door. Maybe he has been told only to allow someone who has shown him an Club membership card (Group membership required). Someone with a credit card and a driver's license showing they are 57 years old still can't get in without becoming a club member.

So you show him a membership card, and enter the lobby, where a second bouncer says HE will only let you into the bar if you show him valid proof of age (Aristotle check approved) OR a credit card (Payment Info). Can't? Sorry, this is a bar, and your club membership doesn't automaticly let you into the bar. It's still good at the bowling alley next door, though. You show a credit card, and enter the bar.

Once inside the club (Passed the Estate checks and the Region Adult Content checks), you can see the tables and booths and roped off private VIP areas. You want to go to the VIP area, to participate in some exotic entertainment. A third bouncer there (Parcel check) says he won't let you past the rope without valid proof of age (Aristotle check approved). You might still be able to look past the rope and see the dog and pony show inside that is being held for some guy's batchelor party, but you can't participate. Or it may be in a closed room, (a venue not in plain sight, and not obvious to cam into), but you still can't get through that door without the Age check specificly. You could still go to to other parcels that didn't have further parcel-level restrictions. Or a parcel might require further restrictions, like being part of a different group to enter that parcel.

The main problem is that the vast majority of SL users know nothing about this change. LL won't announce it on the login page. And the vast majority of posts on this blog are about how it will affect you large stakeholders. You are the tiny minority of SL users. The average joe SL user isn't being heard from. Thats what needs to change here.

Well it was said this is account and not age verification. I agree nothing has been seen to be accomplished in all this as i report on average one minor a week on the grid and you see we all want different things like clean the club scene up on the grid, and someone else wants something else and so on and so forth. Maybe they see this as a move that will hurt us all but it will heal in time, are they right or are they wrong? only time will tell thats for sure

When we actually know the honest reasons why it is that LL are doing this then we can make an analysis but until then its all assumptions that we make. Lets hope we get told but i won't be holding my breath

Agreed. Although until we get the final definitions it still isn't clear want is or isn't Adult.



Agreed.

However, the new policy (as I and most others understand it) is that if you have adult content on the region, you must use the new maturity level gate and only need to use that gate.

The existing parcel and estate gates are completely end user discretionary in that you do not need to use them if you have adult content, nor is using either of these (without the new regional maturiry level gate) sufficient if you do have adult content (for example only the regional level adult maturity level automatically restricts the lands appearance to adult only searchs and only adult maturity level allows a PIOF or Age Verified account to opt out of adult content).

Matthew

Me? A "large stakeholder"?

Yeah you're way wide of the mark on many points but I welcome everyone's opinion on this matter and I'm not going to be swayed to change my opinion on the basis of someone threatening to boycott my inworld business, freedom of expression is far more important to me.

I certainly have never said my opinion is more important than anyone else's and if you take my different opinion to mean I'm attacking someone then so be it, I'd rather debate the point at hand than go on to threaten to boycott people for having the audacity to have a different opinion from me.

ooh great numbers whoever provide them...thank you!

Here's my main concern....what impact is this going to have on both Land & Content economies?

How much of that 86.03% are not going to get verified....or simply up and leave.? I realise a large precentage of that figure are Bot a/c's, old a/c's and Alt a/c's....but even if 20-30% were the truer figure....the question remains the same.

Some folks here seem to want to dominate and control the discussion. Contrast that with those of us who want to open it up to as many people as possible. Let every voice be heard. Why should a tiny minority dominate this discussion? What do you have to fear from every SL user being aware of the upcoming changes? Let others have their say. After all some of you have posted several hundred/thousand times. Don't you get tired of trying to demonstrate how utterly genious you think you all are. lol

LOL we all know you are Anshes alt

lol make your mind up, do you want to threaten to boycott people and therefore put them off voicing an opinion or do you truly want to open the discussion up to as many as possible, every voice will not be heard whilst people call for boycotts of those who have a different view.

The only one I see trying to control the kind of people who are able to engage in this discussion is you. You're telling people that if you think they're in favor of the move, you're going to call for a boycott on them.

yeah, He also said 8 questions a day answered and they are still blowing smoke up everyones asses and not answering anything. Simple petty shit... while the REALLY important questions seem to be ignored.


I'll say it again... a sim for a sim.... I want Ursula # 149...LOL..If your going to MAKE me move, give me some consideration at least!

~Brie

You never know in SL.

I would not be surprised to find a hermaphrodite around

Or a parthenogenetic gynogenesis or androgynous morphing multi-gendered humanoid.

Now you see it, now you don't

Personally, I think the final definitions for what is "Adult Content" needs to clearly define 4 levels. Here's my proposed starting point for definitions. :

Adult + Extreme:
The far edge of acceptable anywhere in SL. Region must be Adult Content and Estate or parcel must require Aristotle age check. Extreme activities must not be visible or audible from adjacent parcels. Access to venue should be controlled to ensure no one is exposed to it without fair warning and consent. Examples: Public venues offering, for free or for pay; canabalism, fatal or maiming torture, graphic nonconsentual violence. Merchants seling content explicitly for these extreme tastes.

Adult Content:
Not extreme, but not what you might want as a residential neighbor, especially if the parcel across the sim border might be PG. Region must be Adult Content. Examples: Strip clubs, Escort Services, Public sex venues, "Pay for play" sex sites, Merchants selling explicit (but not extreme) sexual content, such as prim genitalia... Also correct rating for any parcel that wants the freedom to do whatever they please, without ratings restrictions. (The former Mature standards, really.) Sex out of doors is OK. Sex in private residences that is not offered to the public is unrestricted, allowing even "extreme" content if not visible/audible from nearby parcels and as long as only consenting participants can see it. Suggest this rating for combat areas that are violent/gory or for "free fire zones" where anyone in the combat area is a valid target.

Mature (revised meaning):
Sex that is NOT available to the general public or being offered for sale is allowed. Private bedrooms and sexually themed content whose use is only by invitation of the parcel owner, for their household and guests is fine, as long as not "extreme". Sexual and violent content should be out of a direct line of sight from adjacent parcels. "Be a good neighbor" applies. Could include descrete merchants vending adult-oriented content that is not graphic, such as skin vendors, sex beds where trying the bed poses is not allowed with clothes off and genitalia attached, pose balls stores (same guidelines, no trying them with clothes off and genitalia attached). Merchant vendor graphics might include full frontal nudity, but no images that would exceed an "R" rating in the movies. Can include outdoor nudity, like public nude beaches and nude hot tubbing, where no sex is taking place. Publicly visible images should be limited to R rating or less. No XXX hardcore images on display. Can include controlled combat areas where combat is not extreme/gory. "TV Western" or "Cop TV Show" violence, where someone who is shot or killed with a sword just falls down, instead of their head blowing up or blood fountaning.

PG:
As it is today, but enforced properly. NO sexual content, no nudity, no swearing, no violence, not even "in the privacy of your own home". Content should be suitable for a 13 year old to participate in.

nobody is stopping you from voicing your opinion.

so stfu noob!11!!!

that last bit was a joke btw , dont take it personally

Sure...then why are LL not placing a splash screen on the login page in multiple languages with links to blogs and participating forums. I'm all for that.

So why do you think LL are not doing this?

I made this suggestion last week, but I suspect it got lost in the clutter.

What LL should do is look at the map once people have filed their requests to move to the new continent. If there are multi-region sections of a given continent which a comprised of only a) Linden owned land (excluding sandboxes), b) Land set for sale to anyone, and c) land which the owner has filed a swap request for, LL should move those regions to Ursula. In order to not turn the mainland into swiss cheese, LL would then replace the sims which were moved with new sims, possessing the same base terrain as the sims which were moved. It would also be necessary to regenerate any linden owned objects, such as roads.

This would result in a cleaner experience for some affected users, as it would (mostly) remove the need to the need to let customers know that you moved. Additionally, the need to rebuild would be eliminated, saving countless hours of work, and all those landmarks that are out there in the wild would remain valid.

--Ariel Moonsoo.

They want to control the debate. Look at this blog as an example of that. Only those voices that are "approved" are tolerated. Anyone not "OG" enough or who hasn't contributed to the SL viewer code is flamed. lol

They have already built the *strange new world* They aren't interested in the hardships this will provide us, the residents, as long as their goal is achieved. They have said... once its open, you pick a sim, you have 9 days, pack and get your ass off our mainland. Some sims, like mine, has mountains.. they cant match that with what they have. ergo... we have to pack and move. besides...What your suggesting would mean.. Logic & Lindens would work together... its Linden Labs, not Linden Logic.

May I ask, is Linden Governor not *the* Estate Owner in Mainland or Ursula that has control over Gate I who can turn Age-verified ON?

By the same token, if a private island Estate Owner chooses to restrict access to Age-verified only, are your PIU/PIOF useless even if you are an adult who owns the land in the adult land?

A simple scenario: You bought some adult land from an estate owner in private island, you build your adult paradise, your estate owner then turn Age-verified on, are you not blocked out of your own adult land if your adulthood is only PIU/PIOF?

However you see it, or however way Blondin said it, the software that controls the gate in reality is: Age-verified ≠ PIU/PIOF in practice, in real life.

I think we are in agreement, talking about the same issue that the software indeed nullifies PIU/PIOF status.

The only way it would work as Blondin claimed is to remove the checkbox of Age-verified, and lump both Age-verified adn PIU/PIOF together as ONE checkbox, not TWO.

That is what I am talking about, and what you talk about too. I know you said it is redundancy, but it is not a redundancy in reality, it is an extra layer of restriction in practice, whoever controls/turns it on is not the issue here. Call it semantic or whatever you want, and we are not thick there, and I have no desire to debate about it. I just want to point out the existing loophole.

In practice, it is software that enforces the extra layer of restriction on top of that, which is why the issue has to be addressed, and close the loophole. Certainly, that extra restriction is controlled by Estate Owner, but Linden is an Estate Owner of Linden Governor, don't forget, so Linden can theoretically turn that checkbox on whether you like it or not.

I think that there is a lot of money at stake...why else would SL be this stupid
They were promised X amount of dollars to clean up SL by someone...but at the same time they KNOW if they told us the truth most would probably leave...they want to hang onto our dollars as long as they can...then after whatever company or organization see's that SL followed through and they get the money then they more or less abandon us and could care less if we go or stay!
THAT'S why it isn't on the logon screen...MHO

On 03-31-2009, 03:32 PM (post #3)


On 04-16-2009, 10:54 PM (post #2734)


Blondin, in the beggining of this thread you affirmed that simply having payment info isn't enough, that anyone would have to made an actual payment or the alternative would be the Arstotle joke. Now you are contradicting your statement.

How, with all theses contradictions, can anyone trust anything here?