Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Thanks Talarus, I had to remove a word and replace it with other text to make it work.

This is the second part of my post, concerning what we as business owners might want to consider doing on our part.


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Business owners...

for a few moments, no matter how distasteful... assume that this is happening.

1. Detach yourself as best as you can from your current feelings on the subject and list what you need to make this transition as painless as possible. Yes it will be a huge PITA for us all, but we're all in the same boat. We all have to fix products, ask clients to reflect the changes in their picks, etc. So besides a magic wand, actually get it all on paper, you need X m2, with these properties. Do you have room on your tier or will you need assistance during the transition? Do you have existing neighbors who are also going to have to move that you wish to remain near?

2. How will this HELP your business? were you looking to expand in a few months? Would being in a neighborhood that caters to a particular area of the populace help or hinder?

3. What would hinder you to be placed near? If you cater to a certain clientele set what would hurt your business to be placed near?

it's a pain, but we're all in the same boat. so let's start thinking of how we can use this to build our businesses rather than how much it'll hurt. Cause it'll hurt a lot more if we don't start really planning and working with each other to get things going in an organized fashion.

EXACTLY!

This thread opens with: "As dialog on the subject has lessened ..."

The dialog (more like reciting the Hong Kong phonebook to an answering machine) lessened in a way a train at full speed crashes into a concrete wall. The threads were closed ...
Here are some highlights of the dialog so far:

Q: Won't it be hard to define a clear standard?
A: Please read the link we had to remove because it didn't reflect our current thinking.

Q: How will the geographical relocation of adult content work?
A: No idea.

Q: How did you arrive at the 2-4% ?
A: Research.
Q: Isn't that number a little low?
A: 2-4%

Q: Will I have to pay to relocate?
A: No.
Q: Are you aware this could ruin my business?
A: But you won't have to pay for it.

Q: How do you think age-verification can be made to work?
A: It will never work 100%.

Q: Who is going to police adult content, Linden Lab?
A: Well yes, but no, but yes, but no, but ...

Q: Won't making an adult continent draw the most horrific content into Second Life?
A: llResetScript();

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I work very hard trying to improve Second Life, and I feel it is my duty to give a clear warning: The plans as proposed are impossible to implement. Attempting to do so can cause irreversible damage to the Second Life we've all come to love.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving residents more tools to choose content. Linden Lab is legislator and judge in Second Life, residents are the police. When the police is against the legislation, the world will be corrupt. But have non-adult content flagged by its providers, and everyone will be happy.

To be fair, mentors do not have land privs at the linden welcome areas so all we can do is AR. The same is true for most of the community gateways as well.

@ Phoenix~

That's the point.. It's hard to detach yourself from something of this magnitude.

So- I need a whole entire sim (What I have now..) Yet with my customer base cut down to almost nothing, whats the point? To pay the same fees and yet not being able to have my business sustain itself anymore. Moving loses a lot of business in the first place, re-establishing yourself in a new location, (where most of SL won't be able to get into at this point anyway). Giving up my beautiful sim I have now for some random one in the adult ghetto.. (Yes that is exactly what it will be) next to other sims that may have horrid, ugly stores, orgy rooms etc. To move my *no nudity* *no RP* store all because I carry furniture that has some sex animations in it.

Forgive me if I don't want to plan for the inevitable. I will likely end up on a private island before being put in the ghetto. Which I'm sure many like me will as well.. Leaving Linden Labs $100 a month richer for each of us a month to be put on a private sim not worth half of what mainland is.

I clipped because no need to fully repost since you have the whole just a couple posts ahead.

These suggestions/requests are excellent & I agree. Please DO especially take a look at suggestion/request #4. Phoenix has brought up an important issue. Even within the BDSM community that will be I'd assume the majority of this minority... you can't just lump us all together it wouldn't work. You can see simply from an earlier post in this thread how irritating some men find male submissives for example. Clearly the two of us wouldn't make compatable neighbors even if the two of us got along well. My customer base would drive the man nuts and that would cause problems.

You will have to consider zoning of some sort.

My understanding is that people will still have to be age verified to access naughty content on private islands. I'm not sure that the extra expense will be worth it given the customers lost by requiring them to be age verified...

understood completely, and I agree. that's actually why I said that

it's unfortunate that a weird forum thing and my not understanding it made it so my complete post ended up being separated by about a page. but we really do need to look at this and decide what it's gonna take to move forward.

Given responses to alternatives proposed... mainly the refusal to separate out the PG content instead or other restrictions that so far seem to have been overlooked or ignored. We should start looking at this as something that needs to assumed is going to happen and start planning our businesses and customers, and taking an active role in requesting things that will make the transition smoother.

Trust me, I agree that there is no end of suck to this, but I'm looking right now from a really detached view and trying to decide what I need, what will be moved and what I let stay where it is. I'm trying to estimate how long it will take me to build in a new location, and how long it will take to fix products with new landmarks etc.

I'm also trying to really work through in my head what other industry I would or would not want to be around in a potentially crowded continent of adult items, that way I can look for an area where I feel my business might benefit from foot traffic.

In the end, I'd rather plan for it now, and have an opportunity to ask for things that I think will help to smooth the transition, than wait until they march me at threat of banhammer and not be ready to implement the changes. And I am thinking about it now so that the transition WILL be smoother.

There is no question about it, a store that has long been located on my land in Goorembalchi will comes under the category of those items to be moved to the ghetto. I have no problem with that. In fact, I volunteer to be the first one.

Actually I expected to close it all down when the age verification thing started and I was led to believe that n00bs would no longer be allowed to shop there. Alas, that never happened. I am still waiting.

So my question is: When do we move? Or is this going to be another of those things where you keep waiting for the notice to arrive and it never does?

Hi everyone,

I want to assure you that we are watching the forums and taking down your questions. In addition to monitoring the conversation, we are holding a series of inworld meetings next week with educators, business owners, those most affected by the changes. We'll also be discussing the timeline and other open questions around definitions, what the move would look like, guidance around tagging your content and classifieds.

If you haven't already seen the FAQs you can find them here:

Adult Oriented Content Controls FAQ
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6032

Finally, here are some of the most Frequently Asked Questions we found from the first round of forum questions.

-- How much of SL is adult oriented content?
Based on our research, we estimate that around 2-4% of content on the mainland would be considered Adult according to our current thinking on defining that. For all of Second Life, our content research shows it is around 5%. In other words, 95% of Second Life either mature or PG.. Again, we estimate that only around 2-4% of the mainland parcels would need to either relocate or reconfigure to meet the requirements in our current thinking, but of course we are looking for your feedback to help define that.

-- What about adult activity in private on the mainland? e.g. Is Linden Lab making rules about what I can do in my own house on the Mainland?
Nope. We are talking about public behavior and events, businesses and listings that are meant to drive explicit sexual and violent activity.

-- What about objects/avatars/groups that some consider inherently related to specific sexual activities or preferences - e.g. furries, sexy clothing, etc. - will that be considered 'Adult content'?
We're still working on tight definitions (which we'd like your help with) on what is considered Adult, but in general sexy clothing, skins, and furries aren't inherently explicitly sexual, and stay in the Mature areas (i.e. won’t need to move to the Adult continent).

-- Is all content currently classified 'Mature' going to have to move to the Adult continent?
No. Our research found an estimated 2-4% of the mainland parcels would need to either relocate or reconfigure to meet the requirements, based on our current definitions of Adult content, which again, is an area where we’d appreciate your feedback.

-- Why not make all PG content move to a new continent?

Both PG and Adult are the exception, rather than the rule, in Second Life. We would prefer to keep the majority of the content and interaction where it is currently – the Mature regions.

--Why not a G-rated continent?

This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service.

--How does this apply to combat sims, can you provide examples of what would be allowed?

Combat sims are mature, think R rated movie. If part of that is lots of blood and gore, that would be considered Adult. Again, the precise definitions are something we’re still working on and would welcome your input in the forum thread devoted to this topic.

-- What happens to my personal data? Will it get shared with a 3rd party when I verify my account?

Our 3rd party age verification provider uses several types of data to verify your account, but they do not store the data or use it in any other way.

--*What decisions are Residents going to be able to impact?

We are open to talking about many aspects of the change – timeline, more granular definitions of mature vs Adult, how those who need to move want to make that work. We know some of you are asking for a more definitive timeframe – that is part of the ongoing conversation, what is reasonable in your view?

-- Can you talk about the decision making process and what the timeline for decision making will look like?

Over the past year or so we have been hearing from a growing number of you that the experience in Second Life needed to change. We gathering a great deal of feedback and data, and then sat down and tried to imagine how we could serve most needs best. What we came to is that we didn't need to change very much about Second Life to meet the majority of those needs. As we've stated, nearly all inworld content, events and classifieds will stay as there are. For some events and businesses, you will now have a place where you can target your audience and reach the people who are looking for the goods and services you provide.

Blondin and others will be back to answer your questions. Unfortunately, I'm not the AO expert so I won't be able to chime in - much - with details.

thanks everyone

Agreed....think some people are a bit niave or don't understand the full implication of this. Even if this happened only once on the PG sims.......then that's 1 occasion to many in my books!

If LL is as serious about their image as they seem to be, volunteer mentors will have to be replaced with moderators with privileges who can act to get the offensive conversation off Voice and the prim bits out of Ahern... As soon as the violation occurs.

In the time it takes a mentor to file an AR, a ten year old (or corporate scout) can be propositioned for group sex, handed landmarks to the nearest brothel, called any number of ethnic slurs, griefed into immobility, or, horror of horrors, WALK ACROSS A MATURE PARCEL.

The current "system" isn't being enforced. New regulations will not work.I'm suspicious that this is a weak attempt at improving SL's somewhat tarnished public image, coupled with a money grab (selling land in the new adult ghetto) and polishing the place up before the place is sold off to other interests.

Define "in my own house".
Most furries are G rated, not "mature".

I get buried up to my waist in prims half the time I teleport home. I have to jump on a pose stand and off again before my floor realizes it's not phantom.

Are you sure? Isn't it this sort of non-serious closet perverts we ultimately need to get rid of to get a serious business image?

I don't think mature, let alone adult content is allowed on the SL website. However, advertising on Xstreet will be open for all content.

The estate land issues need to be addressed here, they're being left in limbo, what are the options for estate owners?

We need professional closet perverts?

Lindens:

Please explain how your EXISTING policy does not accomplish your goals:



Seems like everything you are saying you are trying to accomplish is ALREADY in the Community Standards, at least to me.

Agreed, I'd rather the community standards were applied too. Alternatively those who move to the new continent voluntarily get to use more coarse advertising, those who wish to stay as they are get told to use sensible words and ensure nothing outside their build is vulgar.

This is a given, someone (a company) will eventually step up to the plate.
Jeeze....we put astronauts onto the Moon for christ sake, you think something similar to this could not be re-created or even improved upon?
LL has created a successful and unique 3D enviroment which can be extremely profitable.....the model exists, they created it, they have it now!
If now they p!ss their customer base off with a series of unwanted changes, an alternative platform would not have much trouble in marketing to disillusioned chunk of SL's population. They don't need to be the Innovators, they can be copiers.....but they can be profitable too!

Why spend any resources policing Linden-sponsored griefer parcels when they can just as easily be shut down?

I believe the Lindens need to create a much better relocation deal for these 4% of people effected. Also private Mature islands will also be effected - what is the compensation package offered to these folks that made thousands of dollars in investments for their content?


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I've heard many speak of wanting change and more options but I haven't heard anybody at all ask for these things in the form of segregation of adult content. Of course, I'm not the one people go to when they want such a change but, still, there seems to be a huge disconnect between what LL is saying and what the residents here have been seeing.

Search already has a Mature checkbox - why not add an 'Adult' one too and/or fix/police the results when Mature is not check to be more consistant?

Do you really get people complaining that they were wandering the grid and stumbled into an adult place? I've wandered across most of the mainland and I find this a little difficult to understand. So you're flying along and see a box club with XXX in big letters on the side - just go around it. What's the big deal here? Do these people also complain to google when they do a random search and end up with some adult hits?

This just seems like such a huge (and unpopular) effort for such little return.. Please talk about this some more.

Also, y'all still haven't mentioned how insanely laggy this new continent will be.. It'd be great if your numbers also mentioned something about the population density of the 2-4% in relation to the other 96-98% of the grid.

Many wont understand. Some will and wont believe. Others still will see the writing on the wall and see this is how it will begin. Linden Labs, the creators of Second Life has decided to make a bold leap that they must believe in the back rooms and offices will propel them ahead and be the golden egg they are so desperately seeking. In an effort to court businesses and educators who have been gun shy to try Second Life due to the rampant rumors that Second Life is nothing more than a meta world of violence and sex. With the desire to encourage the hesitant to give them a chance, they have decided to propose to implement the following Changes to Adult Content. While I spend a vast majority of my time in Second Life building, I do travel all over the incredible world of Second Life and as an Adult, I visit many Adult content places and have made many friends amidst places of such content. So I can certainly tell you in my travels that Linden Labs assurance that only 2 to 4 percent of Second Life would be effected is purely a fantasy on their part. Whether they are so out of touch with the worlds and places that have grown and are rich with a life of their own, or if its an attempt to minimize the outcry by trivializing the number of people and places to be effected till its to late. I have no guess but I can say those effected number significantly well above the paltry percentage they state. Which brings us to Censorship. The definition of censorship is "Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful or sensitive, as determined by a censor." So currently Linden Labs is a company registered in the United States of America, and Second Life abides by current US laws on adult content. I and many throughout Second Life applaud Linden Labs on the good work they have performed in keeping out the objectionable adult content that does violate the Law such as child pornography. To which we are at the cross roads, Linden Labs is hoping that by congregating all the Adult content in one area it will be out of sight, out of mind. Linden Labs I am happy to assure you that when that has been tried throughout history it has never worked. At best you will quickly realize that this is not the way to go, and hopefully you will meet with members of the adult content community who are actively trying to meet with you. We can achieve a result that will be beneficial for everyone. Otherwise Linden Labs will implement there own brand of censorship and drive most of their long term residents and land owners away. Have you even considered that per each mainland Sim there is a finite amount of people that can be on that Sim at any one time? So if you group all of the Adult content together all of those places will be fighting for their share of that finite resource. Most will not be willing to deal with that and will find more accepting venues. I myself own a mall, all the vendors in my mall are Artists, who exhibit their various works of art. There are some that have paintings of nudes. Because of this I will now be classified as Adult Content. Since I share the Sim with so many other shops we will all be classified as Adult Content and have to be Age verified to gain access. Even if the other shops have no content because they share the Sim with me(an Island) they suffer with us all. Linden Labs, Second Life has been one of the greatest tools I have found in my life for making a difference. Please rethink this and come sit down with us and together we can find solutions that will work. Don't make me file my time and money in second life to be nothing more than a bad investment.

I'm pasting this from the group *I* am adult Content just wanted to make sure people read it and get some idea of what was talked about Also

Well Cat and I had Lunch with Blue Linden today. He choose not to eat us, but i don't feel like we made much head way.
He strongly encouraged us to Post to the forum (I'll link the thread) . Because there many Lindens will but able to see and think about it questions we raise..
So I pass that along Please think of One question at least and Post it the forum tread.

I would like to thank all of you that have posted already but don't let that stop you from post another question. I would also like to ask you at this point to try to focus on the definition of “Adult” Content . Everything from language to if my Cock goes here is that “Adult”.

Speak up and speak out against censorship. Make them tell you what they are going to censor and what will still be ok.

I know everyone has some feeling and fears about this issue I have never seen one topic get 30,000+ post in only the three day it was open.

Thank You MystressAnna Lovenkraft

/352/01/312352/1.html


Blue did refute the concept of censorship in these new rules, although I still do not know what else to call it. He also attributed much of the idea of an "Adult" continent to technical difficulties in enforcing the rules on other mainland sims. He did imply that there will be NO parcel flagging, either on mainland OR private estates, that adult content is an all or nothing proposal. That means that you CANNOT just mark off part of your land as adult, and have the rest open to PG or mature content. Blue also refuted the idea that ART (as in nude paintings in a gallery setting) and MUSIC should be effected in any way, but was unable to clearly state that they would be exempt, either. He DID however, make a point that I have been stating over and over again... That our POLITE and THOUGHT OUT questions and comments were helpful and refreshing. Being "screamed at" in posts all day long CAN and DOES deafen the ear to the content of such posts and notecards. So in keeping our commentary polite, considerate, and thoughtful, we are showing our concerns in the best possible light. He also encouraged us to keep dropping in at any and all of the Lindens public office hours. I will send out a notice listing those hours as soon as I can get them all in one place.

Cat Ninetails