Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

I have in this and various associated threads put forward a seemingly simple solution to the perceived problem and, as yet, have received no indication as to why it is neither practicable nor desirable.

This is supposed to be about allowing residents a choice in the tailoring of their own SL experience. This seems fair and reasonable and avoids offence being caused. The solution seems simple, allow residents the choice of flagging themselves:
(1) PG only experience.
(2) M experience.
(3) M (but not adult) experience.
M has free access. PG is restricted to PG land. M (but not adult) has free access with the exception of A land. If those restrictions are not to be automatic then allow owners of M or A land the options of barring PG residents, or, as the case may be, M (but not adult) residents, from their land.

Unless residents are able to flag themselves in the above manner, the proposed changes will, as I understand matters offer no protection whatever to someone wanting either a PG experience or M (but not adult) experience but who has the misfortune to have PIOF (either as the result of being a premium member or otherwise). As I understand matters, owing to deficiencies in other methods of age verification, such a person will be treated as age verified, and able (no doubt inadvertently (Mmmm!)) to enter A land.

The question of age verification is, or ought to be, an entirely separate issue. The majority of SL residents have no PIOF and are not age verified. Whilst I may be in a minority, I am in favour of effective age verification (if it is practicable) for all residents of SL. In the present context, however, my perception is that "age verification" is to be introduced as a requirement for entering A land in an attempt to separate the providers of A content and activities from the main user base and force many out of business/existence and for no other reason. Despite us being told this is about choice, my belief and perception is that the aim of the proposed changes is to attempt to drive sex (and to a lesser extent violence) from the grid in order to make the grid more appealing to educators and corporations . If the position was otherwise, I am unable to see why my own solution, as stated above, is not the obvious and workable solution to address the issue or problem raised.

In RL I am a practising lawyer and I agree with an earlier poster who made reference to his own experience of drafting legislation and who requested that we be told the true aim and goal, so that we can comment sensibly on how that may be achieved. We should not be fed "spin". That is a device used by politicians and marketeers to hoodwink people who do not have the time to examine and scrutinise proposals and propositions closely. The erstwhile failure to tell us the true aim and goal is, in my view, the explanation for the general level of bemusement apparent in this and other associated threads.

Somehow I feel whatever is said, suggested or demanded by any residents here is falling on deaf ears. The decision has been made an this is just the way we are all being told.....by the time it all happens everyone will be fed up of complaining and will have either left SL or given up trying to suggest 'better' ways to fix the problem.

We already have most of what is needed in place. PG areas are clean, anyone can go and be happy they will not see any 'adult' content (assuming rules are enforced). Mature areas may not be and people can already block these from the search. Perhaps all that is needed is some additional changes to prevent TP into Mature areas if people do not want to accidently end up in one. As I suggested before, maybe some protected land to separate PG from Mature may help too. If we need a Adult rating on top of Mature then I guess we can, but I do not see the point......Mature is Adult is it not? By all means introduce some form of age verification and restrict non-verified from Mature areas but all this talk of a new continent, moving people etc. seems like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. That said I do not have visibility of the overall strategy for SL and in many ways I am basing my views on what I know..and that may be a very small piece of the picture.

That's nice. As I said (and was apparently taken out of context) it was another piece of conjecture.

It still doesn't mean anything until an official announcement is made.

Bingo! Until a Linden gets on this forum and argues as to why this is not the ultimate goal, or even the secret one, I believe this is exactly why this is happening. I also believe a lot of people secretly want to see this come about and are likely just lying to themselves, or are not as vocal because it will not affect them so much. I have seen these kinds of sentiments expressed on other website forum communities of SL from a decent sized group here in SL.

Correction: Until it is done, and then the official announcement will be made.

I agree with you, until they make an announcement it is pure conjecture, however we know Linden Lab have been discussing the issue internally, that has been confirmed. How serious the discussions are is another matter.

No need to badger me with rampant corrections please.

I sincerely apologize Amras. I am simply frustrated by the implement and then talk about it later on the forums policy. Communication has always been unpredictable with LL.

I keep getting a forbidden error when I post now, so below is a link to what I intended on discontinuing my participation in this thread with.

http://blog.zhaarteth.net/?p=64

Well, the point is that there is no such thing as a fully efficient age verification system. And as I and other non-US residents mentioned on this forum, there is NO practicable age verification system that suits the international and multi-cultural character of SL’s audience.

As you are a lawyer, I recommend you read this report: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/pubrelease/isttf/
It is not any report; it’s an US task force’s involving State Attorneys General. It’s very serious. And it suggests that age-verification is not so effective, nor does it really address the actual risks for underage internet users and on the other hand it raises legal and privacies issues.



I hope you are wrong, because if that was really what Linden Lab executives believe, they would be even more clueless than the average SL resident thinks they are…
If educators are not finding a satisfactory working environment on the current teen grid, I don’t see how being on the main grid would improve that.
As for corporations, I don’t believe that the allegedly extensive presence of “extreme” adult activity is much of an issue than figuring out in the first place what benefits they can obtain from their presence on a virtual world.

No, we can't stop trying to pretend that, because it doesn't matter. Not "it's not true" but "it's irrelevant". There's been several threads about art recently. In one, someone seemed to think that "art" means "uploaded pictures of grand masters". Another seemed to be under the impression that if something was useful, it wasn't art. Or that "art" was "what the copyright office says it covers". This is another stinking red herring: there's no requirement that anything on a mature, PG, adult, or any other sim be "art".

Pornography on a mature sim. Oh noes. What is the world coming to? That's why it's a *mature* sim, not a *PG* sim.

You must have missed the fact that we're waiting for the other shoe to drop. Philip and M Linden have both said they want to bring the Teen Grid into the main grid.

Philip Rosedale and Mark Kingdon are not just "one or two Linden Lab employees".

Can a Linden clarify the issue of private estates please. I haven't been able to find a statement where they say the whole island needs to be flagged as adult if you have adult content on the island. This is an important issue for island owners, I already flag parcels as mature content where adult content is sold, if this is an island level flag instead it has big implications and is certainly not enhancing choice.

Camming is client side. Cam restrictions are worthless. You have to stop content from even being sent to the client. One example: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-205 ...

People have been asking for it as long as I've been in SL. We've even had discussions with Linden developers about the best way to implement it. But they keep dropping it on the floor.

They said the whole ESTATE, not just the sim, would need to be Adult. This may have been in the FAQ page that was withdrawn, because I can't find it now either, and the FAQ didn't make it into the Wayback Machine.

Leave the gun, take the cannolis.

I too would like a definitive answer to this question, Ciaran. It is a very important issue. The implications for the owners and existing occupiers of private estates are huge.

I have already stated in other threads that it appears to me that the flagging has to be imposed at region (ie. island) level and thus governs the whole island. Indeed, this appears to be the general view of those who have considered the position.

The focus which the Linden policy announcement directs towards the forced relocation of mainland plots to a new adult continent diverts attention away from private estates (which attract no more than a passing reference). In contrast with mainland relocation, there is no "compensation package" on offer to the existing occupiers of private estates, whether adult or non-adult, who will, in their thousands, find themselves displaced from private estates in the event that, as appears, the flagging has to be imposed at region (ie. island) level.

This is really telling I think of how absolutely cluless LL is abot their product and how it is used by a lot of it's users, and in fact one of it's strongest attractions.

A virtual world where you can be almost anything, do almost anything you can imagine, and the want to make it more predictable???????

Is probably coming to an end over these changes. it is certainly going to effect more people, not just those personal to me, but alot more than 2-4% also cost Linden Labs money, Let me try to explain..

I currently live on a coastal mainland mature parcel on the grid. It is the home of a psuedo shinto neko shrine, where people can take in the beauty of it , pray, and enjoy the waters of the open air bath house, if they wish, created by Lucrezia and was relocated to my land after the homestead farce, so it could continue to be enjoyed by everyone.

The bath house involves a certain amount of nudity, its for bathing afterall, and I'm quite sure that while enjoying the waters couples privately emote intimate moments to one another, its their choice, and none should begrudge it to anyone.

Now with the open nudity, it will go adult, just incase someone is offended by male and female genitalia..(do people like this close their eye's in RL when they bathe, these are pixels for the Godess's sake), but to keep the mature rating, after the changes these people will be force to wear a swimming costume or underwear.

Now personally, I find the image of a wet human form, minimal clothing stuck to them, water droplets running down their skin, about a zillion times more erotic, than a purely naked form, but thats just me, but will apparently be allowed as mature, while nudity is adult. A wang in wet boxer shorts is obviously more aceptable to the puritan set..in SL..


These new settings are all ready looking a bit silly, as what ever is changed it still won't be, enough, for some people.

Now ok some of you might be saying, so what, these people will have to wear minimal clothing whats the big deal. Well I'm a second life mistress, and in my intimate circle, part of it involves d/s and BDSM, I have a dungeon on my land, and while it will need someone to break into my virtual home, (door is locked) find my hidden TP pads, and defeat my security orb, to keep unwelcome peeping toms away, to actually see the things in the dungeon, because it exists on my land it gets flagged adult, which being mainland means I have to relocate.

This means the shrine goes or is located on ursula, which will stop the vast majority of second life residents from enjoying it, unless Lucrezia can find another person willing to donate 900 prims for free.

It also means I will have no choice in what I am put next to in ursula, and if you really think I'm loosing my coastland parcel to be relocated halfway up a mountain next to a 5th rate newbie sex club to be told wow you hot wanna hump babe..by 30 day accounts, you've got another thing comming if you think I'm paying $40 amonth for that.


No land means no premium acount more money lost to you Linden Labs, it also means that I won't be able to love and be with the people I care for, in the way we wish to be, then whats the point in being here, because there are an awfull lot of really dumb people in the world that somehow think that people who indulge in extreme sexual activities are incapable of showing one another, genuine love and affection. no premium account then I won't be spending the $70 amonth on content creators items as gifts to those I love and for myself.

No premium acount then I can no longer visit and guard, from griefers a wonderfull, PRIVATE ESTATE, meeting place where people dance talk and have fun, because yes yet again it contains what will be classed as Adult content, because under a beautifully made ruined temple there might be a set of adult poseballs in a cave, for those that want to be intimate in their love..

Now continue to tell me that only 2-4% of the grid population will be effected by this..and I will Fly to America and laugh in your face...ohh no I can't..no passport..so I can't fly their neither can I use it for age verification....

When LL introduced the age verification beta, many of us pointed out that the ability to restrict a parcel to verified adults was basically useless: (i) the restriction only applied to 50-100m above ground level; (ii) you can still see, click on, and generally interact with the contents of the parcel by standing next to it and camming.

The region level restrictions do work (assuming that no adult restricted region ajoins a non-restricted region).

Now, if you assume that the LL's solution to the above "bug" raised during the beta is to insist that if there is adult content on a region then that whoe region must be restricted and if a region is joined to an adult region it must also be adult, and their solution to the bugs in the Aristotle age verification to be to allow credit card payments as a form of age verification, then (apart from the search proposals), LL's new policy is effectively just the rollout of the age verification system from its current beta status.

Matthew

My real question is if these forums are going to help at all? It's obvious that the majority do NOT want this segregation, forced moves, land loss, business loss, etc etc..

If this were TRULY about those that do not wish to see adult content, and LL feels the need to flag it, then fine, flag it. Make those who tp into an adult zone get one of those nifty little blue drop down menus that say you have entered a parcel that includes adult content. Those very few that actually are offended by artwork in the form of nudity, (however tasteful) or offended by furniture that offers sex options (though nudity and roleplay is not allowed on said parcel) right next to the cuddles furniture, those offended by buying a skin that doesn't have censorship pasties on it, can tp out.

Its that simple. If that is your true agenda.. To protect these 'oh so virtuous' eyes from the horrors of the above.. A simple drop down menu, warning the user to that affect. They can stay in and click it away or tp out before they even rezz. This way, 1) Businesses don't lose money by having to relocate and missing out on potential customers that choose not to give up (or even have) the necessary documents for age verification. 2) homeowners and those providing the entire grid a service by creating beautiful gardens that may just have one or two people swimming naked in a roman style bath, do not have to move 3) Those that do not have the needed documents or choose not to give up their private information can still have the choice to access what they wish.

Honestly, if this continues in the way it is, Linden Labs as well as many, many residents (FAR above 2-4%) will lose a lot of money. And likely lose a lot of residents.

Again though, do these posts, these suggestions even DO anything? Considering that LL shows no signs of slowing in this, and yet most people I have read over, seen, met etc.. do not want this!!! Why uproot thousands of people, forcing the loss of businesses, homes, respectability (I do not want my shop on my beautiful sim placed on some horrid rocky hillside next to a 5th rate orgy room either), etc.. LL You are about to seriously damage your own economy, your numbers and your bottom line by enacting such drastic changes.

The issue of teens or children accessing the adult grid (since there seems to be a dispute as to whether it is to be incorporated).. Last I checked it was a PARENT'S duty to raise their children, watch over them, flag their own inappropriate content etc. There are parental controls on TV, as well as internet. If parents do not want their children to access this, then it is THEIR job to make sure of it, Not Linden Labs, by displacing thousands, ruining businesses and the economy as a whole because a few parents have no control over their own children.

Matthew observed: "When LL introduced the age verification beta, many of us pointed out that the ability to restrict a parcel to verified adults was basically useless: (i) the restriction only applied to 50-100m above ground level; (ii) you can still see, click on, and generally interact with the contents of the parcel by standing next to it and camming."

If the restriction was only parcel specific on a private estate, it would be a farce. For example, a strip club could be divided into 2 parcels, one being the stage for the dancers (who would have to be "age verified" and the other being the rest of the club full of punters (non-verified) but interacting with and enjoying a close-up unrestricted view of those dancers!!!

Is there going to be a dissemination of these plans to the general inworld population? Most don't read the forum or blog I would imagine, or are they going to get sandbagged?

They will get sandbagged, only three people, I have talked to about this, had any clue it was happening