Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

That was my thought, yes.

My experience with loosing my Casino made me want to leave SL forever, but I turned the land into rentals and make a little money now. I did learn that SL is a dictatorship, not a democracy, welcome to North Korea guys, live in it or do not, at least we have the choice to leave. My store I now own sells art, skin etc, and yes, nipples are displayed. SL please just give us a straight answer. Put out your edict, so we can get busy moving or leaving. These blogs and pretending you actaully care about our input are silly, just please just go ahead and tell us what you plan to do, we are loyal subjects and will either obey King Linden or leave the kingdom peacfully. Right now I just want to dump my land to the quickest landbot and find another hobby. Thanks

This would be a clever publicity routine to get people talking/complaining/arguing for weeks and make SL 'in the news'...if that's what it was. Controversy is always a cheap way to get some press.

But if it's for real, it is obviously an assault on freedom of expression in a clearly adult world, especially a world where the term 'Mature' held one definition and now certain people seem intent on the game of definition-changing. Mature = Adult as it was originally presented.

Have the integrity to maintain and protect those original definitions. Changing them AFTER the cheque has cleared is laughable and quite unethical, especially on a business level.

I am very active in organisations that promote Femdom, bdsm, and Womens Empowerment...and it seems obvious to me.....the rather arbitrary distinctions that are proposed to segregate certain people/places/objects/and most notably: BEHAVIORS will only lead to unending cases of the 'D word' (Discrimination) - GINA

Where has this been said? They've already hinted that adult furniture will need to move, almost definitely if people can try it out.

Just a thought ... Could this be the sings of something much bigger? Could this be there first step in creating zoning laws , starting with adult businesses , the easiest type of business to single out , then lead to zoning of commercial business as well , which they could justify very easily once they zone out the adult business and once they have the areas zoned well you guessed it the introduction of Linden taxies .

Mark my words this is exactly where we are heading .


Edit to add , this is a much bigger issue then zoning adult businesses

Mostly from stuff I have read on this forum.

http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=1749205&postcount=14
http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=1749063&postcount=7
http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=1749388&postcount=21
http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=2115050&postcount=22
http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=2115057&postcount=23
http://web.archive.org/web/20070513091831/http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/17/if-it-sounds-too-good-to-be-true%E2%80%A6/

But the kicker is at http://secondlifegrid.net/technology-programs/virtual-world-api/risk and I quote:


My point is that SLX and Lindex, because they use this risk API thingie, are the only ones that LL care about. Maybe there are others that use it too, now, in which case my information is out of date, but at the time of the various posts, there was a lot of advice to only buy L$ from those two sources.

Sorry for the diversion from topic...

i tried to verify and it would not take.

i am a kajira living at the same Gorean sim since October 2007. The people there know me and know i am an adult. The sim is a private island. What happens when this change goes in? Will the island owner have the ability to override the "verified" flag for individuals who are unable to verify?

Just another thought.. and this has sort of been brought up before, but I wanted to keep prodding at the loophole here.

So, if I claim that my premises are 'private' - in the sense that it's my domestic home, that there's no classified for it, I don't put up any advertising boards externally, that I don't claim to be running a 'public' club or dungeon in search, that I leave the land description empty - all of that. And I just 'permit' my many, many, many friends to come visit when they like to enjoy my <ahem> nice furniture and each other - and there's technically no way someone can claim I'm marketing the place as public (if I still have a set of regulars coming from good word-of-mouth)... then I'm allowed to stay in Mature?

Or do 'private' homes (whatever that means) which have anything deemed 'adult' in have to implement ugly ban lines with group or individual avatar access ticked?

If I don't rely on heavy traffic for income - I can still purvey my filth?

Surely I can just switch off all the search/classifieds, change the land description and take a few posters down - it looks like a domestic residence, so...? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sounds like there'll be a healthy demand for blackmarket (Mature) landmarks too - and as for annoying LM bearing ALTs... jeezuz!

(P.S. and by the way, if we are going to be transported, can I put a vote in for a huge wall around us, please, perhaps with gloryholes?)

About the only decent suggestion IMO that has been given through these forum discussions has been to create a 'PG' continent instead of an 'Adult' one. However I am opposed to this segregation for the same reasons I am opposed to what is being considered. ALL SEGREGATION IS BAD.

Here are some suggestions that have been given through the JIRA system that do as a combined whole go a long way to providing the solutions that are being asked for.

Shouting should be able to be restricted to parcels
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1789

Privacy Pocket
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-205

parcel cloaking
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-599

Restrict client camera based on parcel access restrictions
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1133

Restricting voice to parcel
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-395

The ability to switch from PG Profiles to Mature Profiles automatically
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10381

Search filter should properly support PG versus MATURE content
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11013

When agents are displaced on login, prompt them to choose the sim rating to log into
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7111

LL should provide a viewer that allows access _only_ to parcels marked PG
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7219

Option to "Mute Visibility" on objects to alleviate problems with 16sqm parcels, ad-farms and probably a thousand other eye sores.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1017

Age verification can't protect content that is more than 50 M above terrain
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3786

3D Permission Zones (Privacy Zones)
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-99

I am sure there are many more suggestions that have been given, these are just some I found searching the JIRA system for only a few minutes.
Hopefully the Lindens can take a look at what has already been suggested and implement these first to create a better user experience than what they have proposed doing.

That quote doesn't mean you're off the hook if you sell illegally acquired L$ through Lindex, because the key part of the quote is "and that the seller of such Linden Dollars acquired such Linden Dollars through fraudulent means, or any other means in violation of the Terms of Service". If you find some hack to get L$, and you try and sell them, they'll toast your account. Lindex or otherwise.

And if you're the buyer, you'll lose the L$, and you might get surgcharged an additional 50%, and if it keeps on happening, they'll assume you're part of a money laundering scheme and toast your account. That doesn't mean these are the only "LEGAL ways of buying them that won't get you banned from SL if you get found out.... as far as I knew only XStreetSL and the LIndex were the only two that would not get you banned if they found out." You don't need to worry that much.

I take offense at that. I've taken pains to make sure those who don't want to see adult furniture and/or pose balls in my store, won't see them. And while the remainder of my customers can try out the animations, I have made it abundantly clear in several languages that my store is a NO SEX ZONE. Clothes stay on, or they get the boot- and I've already banned several morons who were either too stubborn or stupid to figure out I'm not kidding.

I'm getting conflicting messages here. One camp seems to say that my inanimate objects are fine. Another implies that I'm about to be frog-marched off to the adult gulag, G-rated poseballs and all. Which is it, lindens? Do I get compensated for the expense of splitting up my store? I'm already located on a Mature parcel.

I don't think Avatar names will be linked to RL names.

Anything restricting the client camera is pretty much a non-starter.
Yes, or at least have a better default than "some random infohub". I can't imagine when that would EVER be desirable. Something like the first of: selected point, home point, backup home point, or nearest linden land to selected point.
This needs to be implemented in the server, not the viewer.

Don't forget SVC-205.

hun you can go to te Linden Exchange pages and they have links to third party places to buy Lindens so they certiany sanction them

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/L$_Marketplace

Blondin Linden said it earlier in a post on this forum when I stated the non-adult area I frequent was owned by someone who creates adult content.

Join the club Siryn The furniture issue has been raised, if people are trying to use it too often it would seem to be deemed public and therefore adult. However if sex furniture isn't your primary business you might be ok, or you might not. The messages are very conflicting, I'd guess if you go to lengths to avoid people getting it on you'll be ok, but the messages on this issue haven't been exactly clear.

I ahve been told if your sales texture is deemed to be adult in nature your now classed adult, so if you sell a adult item and your vendor show a mmm demonstration of it in use then bye bye your off to the adult getto

That when we DO get some (limited) response from Blondin Linden, it is always that he(she?) picks one or two posts to which an easy answer of "No, it won't be like that." is possible, but NONE of the larger, more hotly debated or direct questions are responded to? Is this because there ARE NO answers to those things yet? Or because the answer is "Yes, thats exactly what we are saying." and the outcry from a definitive answer would be HUGE?

Just wondering.

It might have been Blondin' who also said if your furniture is being used for demonstration purposes then it would be deemed adult. I can't find the quotes right now, there are so many, but one of the Lindens definitely implied if the furniture is adult and can be tried out then it would be a problem keeping it on non adult flagged land. This is stores I'm talking about, not furniture in a home.

Very good points. Thank you.

I would like to add a personal note. Ceera was one of the first people I met in Second Life. I had no idea what a Furry was, but she and her Furry friends were most kind and courteous to the ridiculous noob who stumbled across their doorstep one dark and stormy night. For me, it was a welcome relief from the chaos of Ahern Welcome Area (PG). It was also the first time I saw one of Stoker's beds. I laughed and laughed. What a wonderful invention. The joys of a virtual world!

ok, everyone here seem to be against thoses verifications.
Sl is more adult than childish, now.
2 grids were a good ideas, verifications will throw out of Sl all peoples not able to verify themselves, even if they are adults, and will allow youg people, under 18, to bypass that system, as in RL.
SO, why do you still want it ????
To sell Sl to Disney, or so on ????

just answer that, I'm glad that you have ask us, but, to be honnest, i don't care about closing threads or opening others:
We want >Simple answers : WHY have you planned that verification .
Please, be closer with our feelings than with your business.
because both are bounded by ropes, virtual ropes.

SO answer it : why that proposal ? to get a more vanilla sl world ? to get a more porn virtual world ?
we need to know why you want to do that, to be able to answer correctly.
and, as a lot of people say it, if you've already planned your decision, and if all that forum is juste to let us think that we can change something, if it's just vaseline, say it, please.
You have made so much for sl that i can blame you really . But , since 3 years, it seem to me that you do exactly what is needed to kill that SL life... sorry, but that's my Point...
and, BTW, people that give you money are not vanilla people.... check it out ...

And let us in peace....

(sorry all for my bad english, but we're all part of a virtual world, and no one ask me for now to be verified in english learning...... ( )

Just get creative. Instead of offering in-store demos, offer a description of the item in your store, perhaps some censored images, and then provide a link to an outside website (xstreet or other? Who cares) with images and/or animations on it which describe and demonstrate the item in detail. Sell the items in plain boxes on PG sims. I may offer demos (in plain boxes) which people can try out in the privacy of their homes, and then the demo kills itself, necessitating a purchase.

From a plain box.

In the course i took it is called Discussion Guiding and Controlling repsonses,

you pick the possitive responses, and those that ask accepting questions, like will i need to do this or that.

You ignore all negative comments and ignore questions with answers that you feel will cause further outcry. You guide the discussion so it appears anyone searching for official responses like somone only reading the comments from Blondin, only see a possitive group, willingly accepting the idea and asking how they can get it to work for them.

1) If the insanity of forced relocations is being considered, what would the impact be on existing LMs/SLURLS? I ask because of the VALUE that stable locations represent in marketing and advertising. There is intrinsic VALUE (= money and positive public perception) in stable, reliable destination addresses. If relocation causes every link to an LM / SLURL to break, business will be lost in that catastrophe alone.

2) and why a new continent and talk of terraforming? Can't an entire sim/parcel/etc be moved wholesale with no changes whatosever to a different coordinate? Same look, same terrain, same everything...just different technical location? (with some nice forwarding LM and SLURL feature, perhaps, if needed?)

The segregation/discrimination issue is real and may come to the fore, but in this post, I am curious as to how 'relocation' can be achieved in a 100% painless way. It seems that 100% painless WOULD BE possible if care was taken. - GINA

Blondin,

Why is it that Linden Lab refuses to hear the three most often repeated words in this feedback from your customers:

"DON'T DO THIS!"

Why is the decision to force the adult businesses / content to move not in any way negotiable?

Why do you refuse to hear the advice of your _customers_, who have told you time and time again that your assertation that "this will only affect 2% to 4% of all residents" is flat out wrong, and inaccurate by at least an order of magnitude? Why won't you provide FACTS to back up those numbers, if you are right and we are wrong?

By your own statements, you agree that the "strictly PG" and "Strictly Adult" segments are of smilar size. Of the two, only those who choose to live in "Stictly PG" are likely to care about what the rating is for the land within camming distance of their land. So when your customers tell you it will be FAR less painful and FAR less disruptive to instead form an "ALL PG CONTINENT" and allow, not force, anyone who wants complete isolation from Adult content to move there, why does this fall on deaf ears?

You have asked how to more fairly force adult businesses to move to new land. Why do you refuse to hear that the answer is "You can't do it by force."?

If you want to offer a continent where all sims in the continent are rated OK for XXX activities, by all means, do so. But don't put a gun in people's mouths and force selected individuals to move there.

If you want to make this work, we have repeatedly noted several things that MUST first be accomplished, and you have ignored it:

1: Age verification that people feel confident is at least vaguely accurate, and dosn't compromize an individual's security by creating a huge liability for identity theft. A system that is LEGAL and POSSIBLE in all countries needs to actualy be functioning, and not just a goal, before you can set a timetable for forcing people to Identity Verify. Your attempts in that regard so far are an epic fail, and you can not ignore that failure.

2: A definition of PRECISELY what content MUST move must be made public, BEFORE the move. Your first attempt at that was an epic fail, but in not replacing that with a better definition, you leave the door open to rampant fear and paranoia, and it just gets worse as time passes. Even a flawed attempt, to be shot down again with suggestions on how to fix the flaws, is better than silence.

3: A clear plan for HOW you will get people moved, without causing severe financial hardship to those who are forced to move. Not just "Well, if you have 4096 M2 on the mainland, we'll swap you for a 4096 M2 parcel somewhere on the new continent". SL is not a flat urban array of identical city blocks, or identical flat sandbars. It matters who your neighbors are, how the land is formed, what is nearby. LL needs to actually act like a responsible Estate Manager, and develop a land use plan that doesn't plunk 4 sex clubs into the same sim, all trying to get 40 people at once into their club. Take a good look at how successful estates like Caledon are set up. It isn't random, cookie-cutter, identical parcels. It is a planned community, where some thought goes into what is in each sim, and where, if something inapropriate moves in, the Estate Management does something active to remediate the situation.

4: A clear plan on how to handle those who WILL be displaced from Private Island sims. You have stated that Private Sims don't have to "Move", but they the sim owner needs to flag their Estate as Adult if there is "Adult Activity" there. Most Private Islands are mixed use. Their business plan is not something that can function as "Adults Only". So there will be a number of businesses who are on Private Islands today, but who will be told, by their sim owner, "Eliminate the XXX content or move out". Those people need the same relocation package as the ones that LL directly forces to move.

5: A clear plan on how you will handle the people who WANT to move to a XXX continent, with no restrictions on Adult activities. Most people who bought Mature mainland or Mature land in Private Island sims thought that was what they were buying. Many of them will voluntarily move to a XXX continent, if doing so is financially feasable. But it won't happen if you do like you did in Bay City, in Nautilus, and in most of the newly-created Continents, and make the land available to the highest bidder at auction, either at the whole sim or parcel level. The speculators will swoop in, raise land prices to astronomical levels, and those who wanted to move there will be forced to pay, because no other continent offers true freedom for adult behavior. Those who wish to VOLUNTARILY move should also be offered a relocation effort from LL.

6: A plan for what to do with the rest of the mainland, after the initial migration. Let's say that ALL Mature parcels in a given continent get vacated, leaving only the PG landholders there. Wouldn't it make sense to re-zone that continent as PG-Only? But what if 10% of the land is still held by Mature landholders? Offer them further incentive to move? Maybe. What if it's 40%? What will you do?

===

Insisting on forced moves before you can answer the above questions is like telling an entire neighborhood full or people they need to take a road trip to New York City in 6 weeks, without doing any advance planning about available vehicles, routes to take, accommodations along the way, work schedules and vacations, funds for the trip, or any of the other things a sane traveller plans in advance. The result will be chaos and lots of pain.

So WHY are you behaving like lemmings, and rushing to do this without acknowledging that hundreds of people are trying to warn you that there is a cliff ahead, and that you will fall to your deaths? Or is it just that someone else who will feel the pain, that makes it OK?