Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Omen, I want to pick up on something that you wrote, because others are using similar terms when talking about this:Really? I'm afraid that I have to differ with you on that one. I can give you a RL life example of how this is done with Adult content and how it works...

Nearly all communities in the USA practice "zoning". There are areas zoned residential, commercial, industrial, etc. Adult stores and clubs can only be placed in areas that are considered OK for that. Imagine the outcry that would go up if an Adult store went up in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

Do you think it was always this way? Of course not - back in the days of the wild west (which some have used as a parallel for how SL works today, due to the lack of government) there were brothels (the then equivalent of an adult club) along Main Street - they weren't segregated at all. At some point that changed to the situation we are in now. Did it cause the downfall of society? Could the people interested in Adult things not find what they needed any more?

So to claim that restricting Adult businesses to an area has NEVER worked (your words), I think is a little "off".

I see this as LL enforcing zoning for Adult businesses. Others are seeing it as censorship and ghettoisation (if that's a word) - it's a matter of perspective, and each side has the right to that opinion. Should they have done this from the start? Knowing where SL is now, quite probably. And doing it now is going to be a major upheaval that needs to be managed very very carefully, if it is done.

SL is advertising for our RL website and for our RL website members to use so what i spend here is part of an advertising budget. but the people that maybe leave will i am sure be replaced as i said with new folks also willing to spend money and verify etc. and the wheel will continue to turn.

But thats just my opinion, we have survived a lot since the start and still SL continues to grow and i suspect even after all of this it will still grow.

I don't have any nice solutions. In fact, I'll go further. I don't believe that there is a fair, non-disruptive way to go about this.

If you want a fair or non-disruptive solution to restricting adult content, then you need to abandon the adult continent idea (or making movement there voluntary), and look to the various other suggested ways of restricting access to content on a parcel level.

If you decide to go ahead with the adult continent and manditory moves to there (although there are other arguments against this), then you are going to have to accept that relocations will be unfair and disruptive, and you stand to alienate and lose customers as well as damage your reputation (in terms of providing a stable environment in terms of policy) as a result.

Matthew

You are completely right, there is no direct shareholders, but a couple of the captial firms that are have thousands.

Thats the one thing thats for sure LL will do what they want to despite anything we say, land values are likely to fall even further as the move takes place.
I doubt that any profitable sex business will leave SL while it remains profitable even if the profits do take a drop initially as the result of a move.

One question I have is will this new area be specifically adult content only, or will we have people moving due to fear of their loss of freedom?
I chose mature mainland because it gave me freedom to use the land as I wanted, fear of loosing this right seems to be a real worry to many posters throught this thread.

My point is if everyone in fear of their loss of freedom did move from mature mainland then LL's 2-4% estimation is going to be way out and new land issued as adult will be vastly insufficient.

Example

I have a mature rated 1/2 sim area and am now worrying I cannot use the land in whatever way I wish, so to ensure this ability remains I build a sex club, bang out a couple of hundred pose balls and paste out plenty of porn to look at.
Contact LL, Mr Linden I need half a sim of adult land for my sex club.
Hey presto 1/2 a sim of new adult land with complete freedom to build whatever I want.

I am not going to do this its an example but a potential risk especially if the land I own is carved up crap, I am sure there are a few people thinking hmmmm might be a good time to open a sex club about now.

This would be a disaster for genuine adult businesses, making the land in adult areas very valuable something I doubt has escaped the notice of certain people who made money through adfarming land carving etc.

I refused to verify using that Adult Verification thing they put out and yet according to the definition of what it's going to take to access Adult areas that LL have put out, I am going to be able to go in.

They have said that you will be able to enter if you have used the Validation process OR your status is "payment info in file". Which means that just about anybody who has put money in or taken money out of SL has that status.

I think the proportion of people willing to spend money in an adult establishment and who don't have "payment info on file" is fairly small, and I would question whether the adult establishments really want them anyway, since they're not going to to spend anything, or leave money in tip jars.

There is, of course, one major exception to all this - the "dancers", strippers or otherwise adult entertainers. A lot of those that I have met haven't set a payment method - they earn all the money they need in-world and have no desire to take money out. None of those would be able to get into these clubs, and probably, since have some legitimate reasons why they feel they don't want to give LL a credit card. I see that as being a bit of an issue for the Adult club owners.....

Now that's the best idea I have heard yet !!!!

Well that is nice and i am very familar with it.

BUT for many of us it is more than advertising, it is a business, which is exactly what sl promoted it as to many of us and encouraged.

So yes this is more than just an game to me and many others.

The vaste majority of people without payment infomantion on gfiel spend billions of lindens, buy millions of lindens, etc.

No payment on file does not mean no money hun or no lindens.

Exactly. I am listed as "no payment on file" and yet, somehow magically, I spend 10's of thousands of Lindens regularly out of this unverified account.

Exactly and so do thousands of other accounts on sl.

They pay rental teirs, buy goods, tip, donate, etc.

Whole sims are rented out to people without payment info on file.

What we are talking about is loosing a hugh part of the sl family because of a change that to so many people i have talked to is unacceptable and will cause them to leave. Leaving with them will be the Real Dollars they bring to sl to buy Lindens, etc. The teirs they help pay, etc.

Yes i thourght i recognised the name it was the wife that reminded me Yes SL is a lot more for me as well, it was the place i met my now RL wife, its the place i have many friends in and it holds many memories.

But at the same time i have no illusions about business here in SL, its a flaky platform that allows me some freedoms and as the years pass and SL survives i hope that it will improve. It is not and should never be considered as a sole source of income for the reasons that are happening now. As my granny always used to say, never put all your eggs in one basket

Yes i think they should have done this from the start before it became a problem to anyone, waiting untill now will cause alot of upheaval initially.

However after a reletively short period of time I expect adult businesses will flourish, as long as movement is handled very carefully and the area doesn't become some sort of cr*p prim ghetto.

People who like porn don't necessarily have a desire to look at a tacky mess, I would say zoning of builds to areas of the new continent would be a good idea.
Offer an area like bay city, broken with linden content such as roads etc. leading out into standard sims, flat hills etc. then onto ocean sims.

LL should enter active dialog with owners of adult rated clubs etc. prior to the move establishing what they want from their new continent, as I said before it isn't a fair scenario for many of the more responsible adult club owners.
LL should be doing the running to ensure the best possible outcome for all those affected, comes from this move.

One needs to be a premium member before they can purchase, or even after they purchase land to own it. What sense is there in making a large part of SL available to people without payment info, so therefore they cannot purchase or own land.

Think about that, then open up your maps and look at land for sale, abandoned lands. I live on what once was a "new continent" Massive areas are for sale. Entire sims abandoned, waiting to be auctioned off. Yes lets make more land and only allow people who won't be allowed to own it without payment access to all this low cost, and abandoned land? Hmmm makes me wonder.

Supply and demand, obviously there isnt a demand if parcels sit abandoned for nearly 8 months. So yes lets add more land. Kind of wonder what LL is planning, perhaps bankruptcy.

Wouldn't happen. They're mostly in strip centers on the edge of residential neighborhoods, because you get more foot traffic there. But if you don't think they're out there, you just haven't been looking for them.

Oh, how about releasing some of the terraforming restrictions on the adult continent? Make it 40 meters like the FIC sims. That would make it a lot more desirable, and you'll get a lot more voluntarily moving there... and it won't take any coding changes.

I completely agree,

But i also think that they way they go about these changes is as usually backwards and without thought.

This is last year all over again. I suspect again when accountants get involved and start calculating the income Linden Labs will loose, this will start to be another lame duck. Till sl starts to bring in change gradually and consult the very people they want to spend money on their service we will ahve these panic attacks.

Look at the annoucements and the answers to questions. They don't even have a blueprint for what they are doing. Seems like they put out this goal and then try to make the rest up as they go along.

Want to create ADULT, fine great. I personally do not want any kids in my areas.

Want to remove the adult from mixed sims on the Mainland, fine find a way to do it over 6 month period with some reasonable way to do it.

Want to make sure adults only access the Adult areas, Well better get some good ex FBI agents to investigate every account. Because i bet most the people that leave will be adults who refuse to verify and a lot that verify and stay will be kids.

Adn what about this verification. So a kid with a Credit card is verified?? A adult without one is not. How is that solving the problem??

In my opinion, the most elegant solution is to create and auction a new themed continent similar to Nautilus. Name the continent 'Xtreme' (to avoid confusion with the term 'adult') or 'Thelema' (from François Rabelais's 16th-century novel "Gargantua and Pantagruel" or 'Candide' (from the novel of the same name by Voltaire). Whatever name you choose, make it classy.

Make the land interesting and pleasant. Provide plenty of waterfront, lakes, rivers etc. Avoid cliches. Do not build 'Amsterdam' or 'Soho' or some seedy, concrete jungle. Also, avoid adopting mainstream BDSM themes such as Gor or Roissy. Seek a theme that is clever, creative and amenable to all 'Xtreme' players.

Don't force people to move. Don't treat sexuality as a blight to be frog-marched out of society; treat it as a blessing for which a new continent is an enhancement, a magnet, a new opportunity. Use the carrot rather than the stick.

Above all, avoid stereotypes. Most Xtreme players are actually quite civilized. While Gor may not be everyone's cup of tea - it sure isn't mine - it is nonetheless a very sophisticated world. Therefore, sell this new continent as a garden rather than a ghetto. Not only will you gain the respect of the community, but, if you play your cards right, you can turn this issue to your advantage in the mainstream media.

Lots of empty land means lots of cheep land. someone will benifit from this. wonder who.

Ukiyo-e, "pictures of the floating world".

These threads have been going on for days and all that seems to have happened is that the position has become ever more confused.

The issue of sex furniture has left me completely bemused.

I could only truthfully say that the sex beds I own all have a large number of animation options that, viewed objectively against RL western standards, are "extreme" or "adult". Yet, apparently these "by themselves" can remain on a mature sim as can other "sex furniture". On the face of it, such furniture might also include wooden crosses and wall chains etc. However, with items of sex furniture other than beds, the poseball options are almost always graphic and on any objective basis "extreme" or "adult". Are we left with a situation where sex furniture may be present on mature sim but not used? It seems that way to me.

To compound issues, the concept of a "home" or "residence" has been raised in the context of sex furniture. It seems that sex furniture on a "home" or "residence" in a mature sim is acceptable. But what is a "home" or "residence" in sl. Their forms are limitless. It is silly to suggest that everyone in SL "lives" in a standard RL house.

If "adult" is really dependant on use of land rather than the nature of the buildings and furniture present, can a private estate owner flip between Mature and Adult depending on whether any "adult" activity is taking place?

What sim are you in? Sounds like you have land in whatever continent they decided to use for the Adults-only continent.

When will the specific definitions of what is acceptable for "Adult only", Mature", and "PG" content be available for review? Or if I missed it, where are those definitions?

On March 12, 2009, Jp Linden posted in the closed thread "Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Definitions": "We need clear and consistent definitions of what constitutes adult content, in line with our Community Standards. Our current definitions for PG, Mature, and Adult can be found here: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010"

As of the time of this writing, the link provided says that the article is not available and still a work in progress.

I hope these definitions will be made available soon, especially since the Linden Lab founder Philip Rosendale announced on January 19th that the teen grid will be merged into the adult side. * It's hard to believe most parents would find that a teen/adult merger acceptable until after BOTH the adult and mature content are cleaned up.

* Rosendale's comments can be found here: http://www.metanomics.net/transcript011909

Notice that all our questions go un-answered or even commented on.

The Lindens in this discussion only seem to respond to quesitons that refer to the actual in acting of these changes or to people that post positive comments on the changes.

Real questions are ignored.

Just for the record: We have 32 shopowners and 2 don't have payment info used