Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

We don't have much choice but to recommend Search. Just need to clean it up.

LL is in charge. This is their policy. I am only supporting it.

anyway. Have a good evening.

And so we find another line to draw.

Let me ask you something. are you revolted by "unlucky chairs"? Zombies? Horror? Combat RP with Bladed Weapons?

All will involve death/dismemberment/beheading, etc.

Now, are they the same as "snuff porn"? No. Will they, by the linden definition, be stuck in pornopolis *next door* to the snuff porn? Yes.

Horror RP is going to be a problem. What the LL is discussing will classify stuff that we've been seeing in the movies since we were kids as being "extreme" and so bad that we have to go through 4 layers of age check and do it *way* off in a fenced-off section of SL.

All Because we want to RP "Call of Cthulhu" or "Interview With The Vampire".

Now *that* is bullshit.

It's *all a cartoon*, and yet LL is intent on treating it as if we are *really* doing this stuff. As if there was a snowball's chance in hell of some innocent wandering into an orgy, or a gorefest. Well, now I know it for sure - I guess that *I* am adult content too.

-V-

Do you know the tribe of planetarians? To this we belong all!

But if you like the nation thing...

You know where the northern american tribes came from?

They were not fallen from sky.

They came basicly from continental Europe...Mainly from an area where we have Russia/Sibiria today and the scandinavian zones.

Over an ice-plate-connection between the continents in former times.

But do you know where the so far discovered first humanoide was found? In Africa. Ca. one million years old. The sceleton. Science name: Lucy. Skullform told the scientists that she was able to: think or minimum,to: explore and to askherself questions! A monkey-lady (very hairy by the way)

This is your ancient chief and mine too, metaphoric said and with a smile.

But seen wider backwards we were based on reptiles and fishes and wider backwards kind of bacterias and wider backwards: stardust. lol

So, stop your hype, because we have all the same planet under our both feets. And we are all doing the same things all day long since we climbed down from the trees. Working. Eating. Drinking. Sleeping - and ranting if the clock strikes in mornings, lol. And NO culture is able to do that better or special-alternative to another culture. It' is globewide the same principe. We are all more synchronized as you may know and this we are since homo sapiens is on earth.

Do not try here to move one specific group in foreground, because of their clothes, tools, sounds, or whatever, because clothes and tools and sounds we created all around the globe at any given time and with the same basic-functions everywhere. Very similar things with exact equal functions and meanings all round the globe.

Even pyramids are not exclusive. We have them in Egypt and in South America and wherenotall.

The last time that it failed dramatically to move a specific illusion of nation in foreground was 1933 til 1945 by the collective amok-running germans.

So, be careful with that. If you try to introduce some creativity of your ancients to others, then do that with a non aggressive and non pushing attitude, otherwise you will fail and I do know much natives who are not agreeing with your sort of pushing things - even here in this forum you have obviously no support from other natives.

I am very interested in your culture (like in many others - wich makes SL interesting beside the pure fun), from a european view, but: about that I do correspondend with two much more polite native people since years, wich are living here in Vienna by marriage and one guy from Canada from the Sta’atl’imx Nation in Lillooet via visits and e-mail contact, sometimes skype with a good laugh - well, a good humor they have too. These are all very nice, polite, educated and tolerant people from that specific native backgrounds.

I am a curious nose and traveled much, but I have never seen as much intolerance as on your nose, Nany. Never, really, sorry - but it is true.

They give me much, much, much better impressions of native former and actual developements and history-contexts and actual ideas and cosmoplitanism they have, than your unbelievable impertinence, I need to say to you.

===

The most important part of this whole long angry reply is this;

If you're giving people a choice to avoid adult areas without registration of personal data, you should give the users the same choice to visit them without registration of personal data.

If you do it any other way, you are not doing this for the users you are doing it for your sponsers, outside companies and your own public image.

If a kid gets on the grid, legal precedent and most reasonable people would agree thats a failing of supervision, a failure of parenting.

===

I wonder, do you base your 2%~4% off of the people who own land and actively advertise themselves as adult public venue or malls? Do you consider that any of these places might be alive and well by word of mouth and groups?

How do you account for this unknown, which could end up being huge.

Also, if you're going to block people without payment info on file from adult lands does this mean that I can not have people come visit me on land which is deeded to me on an adult estate?

Are you going to ban me from having explicit adult activity with people who are not registered on your age verification system?

You're making a mistake in my opinion, many people do not WANT to give you their real life information AS ADULTS because many companies with bigger security budgets than your company have had major leaks of personal data!

I think this is really about all the times that linden labs has been interviewed and the question about children on the grid comes up. I think you hate having your pants pulled down by the question... but seriously why would you cave to the media? They want a story, they want to cause trouble but really any press is good press.

If kids are on secondlife it is because a parent is not watching them and is allowing them free access to technology, that is the parents fault and past court rulings are all in your favor as a company!

Instead you'd rather just cave to the pressure of the media and "Save the children!" groups who have no interest in actually using your product, and would just as soon as see secondlife die because no system of age checking is perfect, you'll never win them over.

The other thing I think this could be about is attracting coperate sponsers but honestly, when have these marry-come-late and john-tomorrow ever really did much to grow the secondlife brand?

Don't turn adult areas into gated communities, do not push away the users who are here for adult content, or the CHOICE of adult content by making it basically illegal for them to visit without handing over their papers to you.

Seriously, you make your blog posts about how this is to "Give people the choice to have a secondlife without adult content being waved in their face"

If it was really about that then why are you making it impossible for people to visit adult land until they give you their information?

This is age verification 2.0, you couldn't get the community behind it last time, so you waited for us to forget, and here you are pushing it down our throats as something new and pretty.

I'm all for search filtering BY CHOICE of the user and the land owners, but making it impossible for them to see until they trust you with their name? their credit cards? their date of birth and almost everything you'd need to commit indentity theft?

Come on now.

We all know this isn't about protecting school marms who wish to use secondlife, or sheltering rigid moral religious group's ability to walk around the mainland.

If you are in a theatre and a movie is too violent for you, you'd leave the movie and get a ticket to something with a different rating. If you don't like secondlife's adult areas, you'd move into an area where you don't have to see it in secondlife, not leave the game all together.

Honestly, poll your community? SO WHAT if 2-5% is only adult, if that number was even close to right (which it isn't) how many users would actually ask you to further define a line between adult, mature and PG?

You're not doing this for the users, thats the feeling I have, and everyone I've talked to has the same feeling.

Please post specific examples of in-world businesses advertising Gorean content as Native American, to include all specific keywords used to produce the search result, the status of the "Mature" checkblock in your search, and SLurls to the specific offending items searched.

If you have already posted this information elsewhere, then please provide a specific link to that post.

How does sex silence other kinds of expression?

You have told people to leave SL a lot more than anyone else has, Nany.

The vast consensus of the 'we like sex' contingent is, walk away if you show up in a mature sim that has people boinking, or AR them in a PG sim. Those tools are in place. The problem is that LL has blown off investigating AR's for so long that people see them as a joke now.

Patasha

Not needed here and does nothing to elicit a solution to this problem.


Unfortunately you are sadly mistaken. It was not struck down as I will yet again point to this,
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/3922531-1.html(thanks for the idea of the image tags whoever said it.)


I've judged others as well on things like vore and dolcett. However I find the psyche required to be sexually aroused by something like this facinating and worth a good study into it. However this is one of those "Definately NOT for everybody" kind of thing where this does hit on the "Extreme" side of adult rp. However I would like to thank the sim owners for "not throwing it in our faces" as it were as through all my time going through the mainland I have run into SEVERAL sex clubs and shops but I don't think I've EVER run into something like this unless I had to directly teleport to it. (I have no problems with sex as it is a natural human necessity to reproduce and without such mechanics humanity and all creatures on the face of this earth will most likely go extinct)



For once this is a valid point. the .xxx top-level domain was pooh-poohed because it was a horrible idea with no premise and broad views in terms of regulation hence doomed to failure as LL seems intent on screaming down this rail-road track to hell with SL bringing up this whole Adult contintent.









I need a hug, but you would proablly eat me... o.O

Anyway again, I'm back and I'm pissed, I advocated fixes and solutions when I left to get some rest and I come back to more slamming back and forth about whos worse than who.

SOLUTIONS PEOPLE NOT FINGER POINTING.
Currently we are falling apart as a whole because nobody honestly "gets it" and honestly I do not either get what LL is trying to do excatly but the most we can do is attempt to offer CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions on how to get this broke system at least in functional order.

So lets bring out the solutions and no more heresay or assumptions on whats what.

*Smacks a "Approved, 100%" sticker on this comment, and quotes it in hopes that it is read over more than once by all*

Oh? Just a couple of pages ago, you said I wasn't real. What makes your collection of red, green, and blue dots on a screen any more real than I? And what *keeps* these things "real" when LL powers down the servers due to lack of funding resulting from driving the very elements keeping the in-world economy (and real-world tier payments) alive off the grid?

And you still haven't answered my question regarding who is going to buy your in-world products, and what are they doing to be able to do with it once purchased?

Come to think of it, you haven't answered pretty much every question asked of you challenging your position. From my perspective, the only fake I see here, is you.

*blinks*

WHAT planet did you say you were from again?

Enough... lets just all ignore the troll (Nany) and pass on their "look at me!" posts and figure out how to fix this broke pos.

...it works best at fullmoon and when I find a fitting neck to sink in my vampire-fangs...

*thinking on Nany*

(back to stoic mode)

I would like to know what in the world LL is thinking.

How do they plan on fitting all the adult content stores in one place? As if lag isn't bad enough in 90% of sl, let's get the bright idea of putting I don't even want to try and guess how many shops, clubs, and what not all in one place to make it even worse.

Another thing, this is a place for ADULTS! Or at least supposed to be. You don't like what I do? Don't hang around me. I can promise you I won't lose .0000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds worth of sleep over it. You don't like what I have to say? Don't listen. Yes ladies and gentlemen, it is THAT simple.

I am pissed beyond words.

Last I checked, LL is based in California which is in America. I mean no offense by what I'm about to say to people from other countries so save it.

My forefathers fought and died so I can walk down the street with my head held high, tell you to kiss my butt if I don't like you, tell the media they are full of it, and to vote for who leads my country. Who the crap do these people think they are that they have the right to take that away from me?

I am 32 years old (check my account, I'm age verified). I am perfectly capable of making rational choices. If I don't like something, I don't participate. NO ONE is going to make me do something I don't want to do.

It is bad enough that I have to deal with people trying to control what I say and do in real life, now LL wants me to do it in a FAKE place that I pay my hard earned money in? Screw you.

So I'm behind the times. I am just finding out about this tonight. And everyone that I have talked to about it, are equally as pissed as I am. I wonder how LL is going to feel when all of a sudden they have a fraction of the income coming in that they did?

And to say that the adult part of sl only takes up 2-4% of sl is COMPLETE CRAP!! For every ONE PG sim there is at least (and I'm guessing here, don't quote me) 4-5 mature sims that have some form of adult content on it.

When you do a search for places to have sex, how many come up compared to how many come up for oh crap I can't even think of something that isn't adult related. Ok so forget that example.

I don't know about ya'll, but when I go to search there is a little check box that says beside it (forgive the all caps, it's for emphasis) CHECK HERE TO INCLUDE ADULT CONTENT! (And yes I paraphrased that).

You don't want to see adult content, un check the stupid box. Again, yes ladies and gentlemen, it is THAT simple.

I also would like to know what gives LL and these people who started this whole thing to screw with peoples livleyhood. There are people who depend on SL to pay their bills.

This is probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my 32 years on this earth. And I've heard a lot of stupid stuff.

One pissed off resident,

Lori

(edited for brevity)


Perhaps that's your answer Patasha - perhaps the 'real' Nany Kayo's avatar is being used in exactly the same way. Perhaps the 'real' Nany Kayo would be horrified at the intolerant, intemperate, non-inclusive and sometimes abusive tone being taken in 'her' posts.

Can she prove that she alone is the voice of this avatar? No, and given the above revelation about the use of alts, nothing could now convince me that she is. I made the mistake of bothering to respond to her (and someone I suspect might be yet another alt) once, but I realise this was wasted effort. There is no interest in true discussion and an exchange of ideas, only a dogmatic commitment to pushing one narrow agenda.

I can see that the only way to effectively deal with a troll really is to ignore it completely - always - no matter what it says, however provocatively. In time, it will get bored with talking to itself.

/me idly looks around while her head is leaning to the side.

...ahHM!.. well.. back to topic. Before this gets Mature.. or Adult.. or whatever.


222 posts away from our goal! Lets reach 4000! .. Because really that's all we can do now. Just talk till we run out of breath, and sit back and watch as LL pushes the changes through like a bulldoser.

I don't see what is the real problem LL tried to fix in the first place?

In fact, the opposite is true. If you ever fly across mainland, you will run into all these red fence ban lines, you will get ejected by these offensive orbs. Mainland is so restrictive already that totally ruined the experience of enjoyment in SL if you ever wanted to explore.

If there is anything to be fixed, I would suggest removing the ability to eject innocent people who happened to go from point A to point B, and the path happened to be in your way. That is offensive, and uncalled for, when you are doing no harm to anyone except to fly by on your way to wherever.

That is a real solution that will improve the experience in SL for our enjoyment as a community. Putting up these walls are counter-productive.

Even if LL had its wish and send all those adult businesses to hell, your mom and dad and those corporate sponsors will still run into all these security orbs and ban lines that make you schizo whenever you try to fly through any area for fear of the electric shock of orb.

That was on my commerical plot on a private sim, i have one Guitarist (camper) playing there outside one of the Main shops.....that is not my Mall which is located on the Mainland. Dead giveway that you're Nany Alt.....you're equally stupid!

As per usual Nany took a point of fact and then completely obliterated it. Just to clarify. Yes, it is a violation of US Federal Law to advertise something as American Indian MADE if it is not. The key word in there being MADE.

Since Nany has being advertising Gor non-stop (she must have a Kajira alt running around), it should be pointed out that saying something is American Indian styled, inspired or a American Indians, or flat out copied from depictions of American Indians, is not a violation of anything.

There is no prohibition against associating something with Amercian Indians. Jeep Cherokee, Washington Redskins, Land o Lakes butter, etc... all being RL examples.

Oh, and Nany, if you are upset by sex in the advertising stream, you might want to call The Washington Post, The New York Times, and .. well just about every major newspaper in the US and tell them to quit accepting advertising from Adult Entertainment, since these well respected and professional institutions do advertise sex enhancement, strip clubs, escort services and other things would seem to offend you. Also give .. I think it's "The Sun" in the UK a call and tell them to cease and desist with Page 3 Girls immediately. Damn strange how major respectable corporations still advertise with all these papers given your statements made as an absolute that no one 'respectable' would want to be associated with the sex industry.

Patasha

Oh snap... lookie what I just found...
http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-retail-stores-not/4654456-1.html
Excerpt from the site,

The court reasoned that while the state should protect minors from such material, it is impossible to do so without violating the constitutional rights of adults.

"In an attempt to deny minors access to potentially harmful speech, [the law] will effectively suppress a large amount of speech that adults have a constitutional right to receive," Judge James R. Spencer wrote.

This could very well be applied to this situation that LL should protect people from seeing what they don't want to see however that violates the rights of everybody else who does want to see it in a open enviroment.

The ball is in your court LL. lets see what you do with it.

Oh yeah, allow me another quote
Elliot M. Mincberg, legal director at People for the American Way, supports the court's take on the matter, STRESSING THAT IT IS THE JOB OF PARENTS—NOT CONGRESS—TO MONITOR INTERNET USE BY CHILDREN.

Now the grid is a 18+ area, so technically its our own damn job to monitor our own usage and NOT LL's....
basically another way to look at this, (bear with me on this) The ones in favor of Mature are the Adults, the ones in favor of PG are adults, yet LL looks at us like we are all children and they feel the need to strip our rights away. Well LL your located in America, therefore bound by the Constitution of the USA. Not Germany or the UK or Asia as they are well off themselves to block content they don't feel is proper for their respective populace. However because LL is located in America it is bound by those laws and by causing this move you are effectively negating our rights to said freedoms by pushing us all into a dark corner hopefully forgotten.

America is not the police of the world (as they would like to think they are though >.< And Nither are you LL. Abide by the laws in the country you reside. the rest can deal with it on their own terms.

Well, she had no info on file, so how do we know (1) she is a boy or girl (2) s/he is not an under-age minor imposing as adult?

That is why LL needs to age verify, and identify verify her/him.

I have to say I think this move us all to one content will not solve the main issue, which is there are children in the adult area and they should not be, not pointing any fingers but this should have been addressed long before the flood gates ever opened, they have a teen grid and somehow easily enough are on the mature one... hmmm. The facts are pretty simple if someone does not want to be in a mature area there is a easy solution... TP out, do not go back... There is NOOOOOO way that the mature content and area is smaller than the pg areas, and no way the pg areas generate the amount of money the Mature areas do. When someone lands on my land it clearly says at the top... MATURE that is the first sign that if you are going to be offended you should move on. Enough tip toeing around everyone who may or may not be offended... I am offended by people who get offended, I am so offended by them I am fed up and sick of them. People who become offended by this or that need to, one stay off the pc and two never leave their homes. This is all crazy and silly and I can not even believe it is being entertained as a thought or concept... I know great idea make the new mainland for those that are easily offended.... lol Then they can all sit there and talk about how they all offend each other...

Now on to what I have to say as a verified adult that is 41 years old, land owner, and tier payer. account payer, dance entertainer, and business owner....

Ok since I am one of the ones, you will be moving, in all ways more than one, I have questions that need answers.

1. I am the land owner of a sex mall and club. If you decide to relocate me, will you pick up all the items VENDORS and all, the club, and all items on the parcel and relocate it to the new area? The reason this is sooooooooo important is: a. When relocating your mall because you decide to move on your own, let alone someone deciding you have to move... You loose a lot of the vendors you currently have in your mall for many reasons, the main one being they do not want to take the time to move it all and reset it all up. So I feel as though if you feel this is the only way to come to a resolution, then it should be on LL to pick it all up at once and relocate it all. And b. There are so many prims and items and others to coordinate in moving all the items, people will loose a lot of money and time in the process.

2. Placement of the relocation.... Currently I do not have another FUNCTIONING mall, club, or sex place near our business, this is how it survives. If you relocate my land, mall and club, will it not be bunched together with the same thing clubs, malls, sex places... Will my competition be able to cam over and invite my people to their place? How can anyone of us survive if we are all clumpted together. Example so you understand what I am saying... If there is a small store that sells nothing but apples on the corner and another store moves in across from it that also sells apples that may be a little cheaper and redder eventually that one that was there for so long will loose all their customers to the new store. So in conclusion... As my land is now, is exactly how I would want it to be without the competition right next door. It is hard enough to build a business here let alone a mall and club to have to deal with one right next door to you too. So will they be spaced FAR apart or clumped together where none of us can do any business at all? Or will housing seperate us? Right now the only thing we have going for us is our location on the mainland and we are so far from each other... (Prays someone has considered this lol)

3. Traffic, Picks, and teleports in picks... Since we all rely on traffic for placement in the search engines, will the current traffic be transferred with the land? Will everyone that has that pick to your location in their profiles be automatically changed to go to the new parcel YOU place it all on? Will everyones teleports in their inventories be automatically changed to go to the new parcel... Not only for clubs but also all the vendors, seems to me there should be an easier way than moving all us.... I wonder if anyone has even thought about all the hard work, time, REAL MONEY that goes into advertising and getting your business out there, seen, and popular enough for someone to come back to. Just moving your business from one location to another because you choice to cost you tens of thousands in traffic, repeat visitors, and people who just can not find you so move on... Will there be traffic compensation for the losses???

4. Seems like all the businesses, sex clubs, sex object builders, and those that simply enjoy sex (smiles big) are going to be effected by this move, does this also include the person that lives in their own house (that they pay tier for) who want to enjoy sex with someone? Are they subject to the move as well??

5. Since when is it not the responsibility of the Parent that has a child that they allow to use the internet and play games that are clearly adult rated no longer responsible for making sure their children are not doing things they KNOW THEY SHOULD NOT BE DOING? Since when is it everyone else's responsibility to take care of them??? Do not get me wrong if a child comes into our place, their AV looks like a child even, they get the boot soooo fast, we do not condone or tolerate it period, because WE are responsible ADULTS, not paid babysitters... Facts are facts though, it is the parents responsibility to know what their child is doing and not everyone else's and if they can not then they should not even own a pc, tv, telephone, radio, and should never leave their homes I guess... This place is for adults so why so many restrictions and changes do we have to incur??? This is not a childs game....

So I guess if you can answer with a definite solution to all my concerns here, as a business owner, land owner and tier payer, then why not go for it after all it will be just a pop and YOU have it all taken care of, we will not lose any business or customers and all will be wonderful in the world of Secondlife in just a flip of a switch, but why do I have this nagging feeling you can not even answer any of these issues???

Seems to me as many Mature areas and business there are, it would be a lot easier, less costly to established businesses, and less headache for all to open the new area as planned and move those that wish to never have any contact with Mature content or Adult situations move on it and put a wall or no tp out of this region up for them.... LOL... Or verify age and correct the main issue. If someone is offended by what we do on our land we pay tier for, then they should not have moved next to us or come in and if they do just leave by all means leave we do not want or need you there .... LOL

(hops off soap box for a while....) with one last thought... We had to pay for our land at costly amounts on mainland, having to buy pieces here and there some at great bargains and others at great expense, nevertheless we paid for it... scrapped up the money if we had to and pieced it all together and formed something that works.. Dedicated countless hours to its existence... Showered it with our blood, sweat, and tears to watch it grow... Pay the monthly tiers in a timely manner so it is not taken away... Spend many hours telling our friends and loved ones all about Secondlife and got them to join and enjoy our efforts with us... FOR THIS?????

The thing that drew me to Secondlife was the freedoms we had here, the creation of content, the wonderful people to share our days and nights with, the way we could use our imaginations and creativity without being judged or sensored. The cost of tier was a small price to pay for all we could get out of it... Now where is it all going???

They started doing all this on "The Sims Online"... Removing peoples comments form their profiles, policing our every move... We all came here to Secondlife just to get away from that... Yeah if you did not know The Sims Online is now, CLOSED down... Stop and think about all of this and please please please reply to my questions... Thank you

I saw a post on a blog somewhere way back when LL tried this once before.

DIRECT QUOTES OF LL.


Any of this getting through to yah?

for those who want to pick apart the symbol of democracy used in place of the nazi symbol think about it. We are allowed to vote for our president yet there are electorial colleges that 1 vote from there counts more than a million from the voice of the actual populace.
LL preaches democracy and mediation however from what I have seen they rarely listen unless it benifits them somehow.

Well, FINALLY, a useful suggestion! Fix broken search and enforce the mature flag. I wish some of us had thought of that! Oh, wait, we have,repeatedly.

Let me be clear:
- I have NO problem with enforcing the 'Mature' parcel flag for the purposes of making search more effective as a content filter.
- I have no problem starting a balanced process to move PG and Mature sims geographically apart in an equitable way. Balanced means no cost to any parcel holder. One for One land swap and if there are 6 Mature sims and a PG, move the PG or vice versa for any given area.
- I have no problem with requiring a 'double opt-in' (confirmed to the email of the account holder) for people to see Mature content.

I want me and everything I have ever made to be hidden from those who have not opted in. I want this to be an option for accounts to flag themselves as 'mature'.

- Kyle