Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

Until I read that this was somebody else's, I was going to congratulate you on your ingenuity!

This isn't directly relevant to advertising, unless I'm missing something, and yeah: only LL knows for sure. But: is all this going on just out in the open? If so, yeah, I'd think it would be AR-able. If it's behind closed doors (as absurd as that sounds, at ground level, given the behavior of the cam), I'd guess it would be okay.

Still, I think it's clever, in a kind of kinky way. I'd suggest a cost-saving improvement to the business model, though: make the person who mounts the first poseball pay the camping for the partner who joins on the other poseball. Free traffic for the landowner, and extremely cheap prostitution services. Friction-free commerce is what the Internet is all about, right?

By the looks of someone’s name they had one past time in college. And unless you went to some fake online degree factory I’m sure most students have had a thesis class in college to complete their degree.

BTW WH I got an A- in that thesis report class, cause my grammar AINT TO GOOD! But my economics was stellar! If my posts aren’t very well versed blame my word processor not me. Anyway hows that ad network your building WH, I picked up another cheap roadside plot near one of your cut out roadisde 16s the other day.LOL

lool , inside trading i bet , pretty sure you can not make a respectable $1 even if you tried


well atleast i have the questionable honor to be ring-side and a small participant in your battle with LL to keep your extortion play going


cant wait till the 1st of october... but i hope Jack will reply here to your latest tactic's before then.


Robo & friends last invention ;

ROBO MARX

What a waste of an education!

You don't need a BA in economics to cut up roadsides. Any moron can do that.

zg

Being able to build an ad does not inherantly imply that you have the right to transmit content into any build. I have the absolute right to block ads if I percieve it as spam. So chose your ad spots with care for maximum traffic, return, and visability.

Again, as a land owner I have the absolute right to block spam from my property with prims. Much the same as blocking popups on your PC as despite the immersive qualities of SL, LL is still a service provider and in world is still inches on my PC screen while on my land I control.

Pretty obvious you did not look at the pic i attached as an example. So you're basically raving on whilst being ignorant... there is no ad on the land..hasn't been for two weeks (since the announcement) EXCEPT the 32 metre high ad they have placed right around a parcel there, and if ya look in the distance you'll see another where they have decided to enclose land with the same tactic.
And if you have the right to block everyones view of anything you choose to view as spam (as you claim) - then prove it... provide that clause from the TOS.
I asked a simple question... you are claiming absolute rights... so put ya proof out for us to see.

I think Jubby had a brain fart here, this sounds like rational thought and I have to say I agree with him.
I think the lindens whether doing as much as many hoped for or not are doing something.
If they really didn't care if we all f**ked off, I don't think they would have ever made any proposals in the first place.

Jack

Can we trust you to get it right here, lower the number of adverts, make the ones that remain look better?
Stamp out the extortion practice, through just identifying it as it occurs?

Well I hope so because if not, you will have raised the hopes of many residents, just to dash them again on 1st October.

Personally I think that may turn out to be the final straw for many of them.

As I pointed out @#247 (/346/9a/281807/10.html#post2147771), the question is anything but simple. Or, if it's a simple answer that's wanted, then it's the one in that post: a surrounding landowner should be able to prevent any building at all within a 4x4 parcel, just by keeping his prims 2m from all sides. But somehow I don't think the simple answer is the one you want.

And there's certainly nothing in the ToS that says denying visual access is any kind of harassment (the reductio ad absurdum of such a claim is also shown in that post). And until a month or so ago, nobody ever thought of claiming such a thing. Some G-Team newbies got bamboozled. It's frankly embarrassing, and really not something to rub LL's noses in.

Jubby hit it right again here if that is a typical anti ad spam build then its pathetic.

If someone put a tower of adblocks on my land I would be pis**d, but then if a group dropped by to "help" and built that s**t.
I can tell you I would be fu**ing raging.

Putting a cloud texture on the biggest prim you can find doesn't make everything disappear, it just adds to the crap.

A building of some sort would have looked ok, if done well but that was a joke.

If thats the standard of walls the lindens have been removing then fair play to them.
Hopefully the new rules should make walls no larger than 8m high a requirement to shield your view, this could be a wall or some trees, something in keeping with the rest of the building on your land, then the lindens will not remove it, as long as it doesn't encroach.
Why?
Because to do so would adversely affect your experience of second life, prevent you from completing a perfectly reasonable project.

You put a single grey block or a pathetic cloud picture in front of a advert just because you feel like it, then I am sorry but that doesn't look cool and the lindens will probably take it away.
Why?
Because you will be just as big a Pr*ck in the eyes of your neighbors as the advertiser who dumped his ad in your face.

looks like some ad farmers are losing a lot of sleep over this issue

YAY Jack Linden keep up the good work maybe that set of letters that guy claims to have behind his name at 22 will keep him out of trouble with the FBI for running gaming machines in SL /
Online housed on US based servers

See here's what it seems many don't understand...

Genuine advertising is allowed.

A genuine advertisements purpose is to be seen, and clicked on if a person chooses.

By prim blocking you prevent an advertisement being used for it's purpose.

Not one landowner would simply allow their land to be blocked in by anyone else.
Not one landowner would allow their land to not be used for its purpose simply because some other person decided they didn't like it.

Call me names, claim non-existent rights, say whatever you feel however illogical, BUT THE FACTS REMAIN... Advertising is allowed AND If someone did the same to you (prevented your home, business, or land being used for it's intended and SL legal purpose) you would want to know what options you have.
And so i ask questions for clarity.

This forum is to make suggestions for going forward from the Lindens decision. It is not for abusing, ranting, venting, or threatening anyone. It is for making suggestions and getting clarity on the changes. The last forum got closed because of personal abuse..do ya want this one closed too? Or do you want the chance to make some logical suggestions or ask questions about the policy?

You have a right to build your ad per the rules. I as a land owner, if I percieve your content as spam have a right to block it with a build from being transmitted into my property. Much as blocking popups on the www. You do not have an inherant right to spam my build or to propagate your content across others land.

So choose ad locations and content carefully as to traffic, viewing capability, and acceptance by neighbors. Just as in RL face a road not a private build or risk trees, builds, prims blocking it's content.

Jack

I would ask that adverts should be limited in width as well as height, If they have to be allowed to have a square block, then they should be no larger than 4m in one direction.
That the largest width allowed in any circumstance is 8m.
I actually think they should be no larger than 0.5m in one direction, as some sort of board design would be much more preferable to me.

The reason I ask this, is if a advert were placed on a 64sqm plot a 8x8x8 cube is possible and is never going to fit nicely into its surrounding environment, any more than whats around now, obviously as plot sizes increase the problem gets worse, couple this with different advertisers placeing their ads side by side and pretty much in some areas things could actually deteriorate on the ground.

Another point I would like to bring up is you allow 50 adverts per user with only one in a sim, how are you going to stop the bad apples placing 500 small vending machines on small plots all over the place or possibly even more in some cases.
For this reason I think 50 small plots should be the limit at one per sim, not 50 advertisements.
If no clear statement of intent is made it is almost inevitable that the above scenario will occur.

Is this already along the lines of your keeping in the fore mentioned spirit ethos?
ie. Can you confirm to me that even if under the new terms the examples above are theoretically possible that Linden Labs will in fact act to remove any such instances as they occur?

Answers to these questions would go a long way to clearing up my concerns, or clarifying the situation at any rate.

[
I asked a simple question... you are claiming absolute rights... so put ya proof out for us to see.[/QUOTE]

The right of the owner of the property. I have no problem with you claiming the right to build an ad within the rules, I just have a problem with you claiming a right to send content onto others land and expect that to be protected by LL coming onto my land and telling me I can't build something within the rules. An ad does not entitle another to essentially cross the property lines to impose content.

Well, but building ski slopes is allowed, too, but I can't terraform the land above 4m from reverted level and my land doesn't slope enough, so that's defeating my ski slope from being used for its purpose.

It's surely not guaranteed that every parcel on the Mainland has to be suitable for advertising, any more than it's guaranteed every one is a good spot to build a ski slope.

I think no exterior advertising should be allowed on the new "Linden estate" not directly attached to a business that 1 sells objects 2 gives away freebies 3 furthers education in SL be allowed

Only interior advertising should be allowed on the mainland

and I should buy a full sim allow ad farm and then auto return all the porn

YAY Ad farmers RENT FORM ME on a private sim

I've thought a lot about this issue since I became intimately involved in it cleaning up a sim (Withernook) that was heavily impacted. There are two issues here, related but not quite the same, and sometimes overlapping.

1. Unsightly, obnoxious, etc. advertisements. Although many of these are for legitimate businesses and products, they can destroy the appearance of an area by their appearance (tall, floating, rotating, bright, particles) or quantity (a "farm". The new initiative is a good step in the direction of making these less obtrusive. Bravo! (And I would argue that licensing creates an unnecessary bureaucracy -- just state standards in the TOS.)

2. Small parcels, for sale at a high price (explicitly or implicitly), *combined with* various annoyances such as ban lines or obnoxious, etc. objects. In the past many of these were advertisements but the new rules have lead to other forms.

What is not a problem to me is a vacant lot of any size, without ban lines, for sale for whatever the owner thinks he or she can get. Let the market operate in this situation.

I suggest a few additions to the TOS to deal with #2. Each of these would be stated as a standard, subject to AR (which would save a lot of programming and allow for exceptions that bother no one).
a. Do not allow ban lines on parcels less than 512sm.
b. Do not allow ban lines on parcels listed for sale.
c. Make all builds on parcels less than 512sm subject to challenge (via AR) and arbitration -- with the arbitrator provided by Linden Labs and an arbitration fee of L$250 to be paid by the side that loses the arbitration.

Like all initiatives, this will be a work in progress. I have more than 100 hippo boxes on properties for rent, and six property vendor areas (ranging in size from 48 to 256 sm). I hope that these will continue to be allowed. I also place for-sale signs on property that I am selling (not everyone uses search ...).

Thanks to all who have provided thoughtful comments, and to Linden Labs for working on the issue.

Infohubs are like clubs, and clubs are explicitly exempt... not a special exemption.

Yes Jubby you are right there



No I think you Fu**ed it here.
How many huge castles you see with high walls right to the edge of a parcel?
How many malls you see with high walls right to the edge of a parcel?
How many gardens do you see with high walls around them?
How many Ski slopes you seen? Yeah me neither but there probably are some.
The list goes on, you think the lindens are going to run around pulling all these builds down because you have an ad next to them?
You think the Lindens are going to pull them down because I have a house next to them?
I can tell you they won't because SL would loose half of its mainland customers overnight, because to do so would be preventing any landowners land from being used for its purpose.
It doesn't matter people can't see your adverts to the Lindens because to make people able to see them in any location would literally end up with half the mainland builds being pulled down.
You think thats going to make the Lindens popular?



It is a place to make suggestions and I suggest adverts be limited to roadsides only this prevents them from being blocked.
It may also push up the value of roadside parcels as they become more in demand.

Jack,

in my first post of your first blog post about adfarmers i reminded you that you said your new policy will put an end to AdFarmers problem. How do you think you will stop the problem with this policy? AdFarmers will just find another way to revert situation in their own benefics... and you are doing nothing to change it.

Your policy is legitimating AdFarmers... nothing more!

If you ever wanted to legitimately advertise products you wouldn't be effected by this, because there's no legitimate advertising that would need to follow any of these rules, because legitimate advertising is inside a club or an infohub or it's part of a store... not ad-plots, of any size, shape, or form.

What if I want to explore on the ground? What if I want to explore in a vehicle that, due to lag, I might lose control of momentarily from time to time? There is NO reason for ban lines or 10-15 second security orbs. People use them to make themselves feel important and grief others.

Pyramid schemes, anyone?

Well, by this statement, you are implying that land owners can't even build a house or a store or even plant trees on their land if there is an ad near by that may be blocked, whether intentionally or not. Sorry, but this simply won't fly.

I will place whatever prims suit my build without regard to any ads that may be near by. Yes, I do consider my neighbors but, if my tree happens to block the view of your ad then, too bad.

Like, driving on Linden Roads?

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2390
Why?