Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Maybe it is just me but I consider the messages who simply repeat the Blog, and have the name of another forum as title, as SPAM and find them very irritating.
If you look at the Blog of this topic it contains 5 of these messages and nothing else. In a way I consider this almost an "ad farm"

BA? Thesis? Riiiiiiiiight

Anyone with a REAL education knows a thesis is the work of a Master's Degree for a doctorate PhD, not a Bachelor of Arts.

Not much of a challenge there.

I have grade six students submit copy with better grammar, spelling, punctuation than what I read in your posts.

Any more you'd like to share with the group? Astronaut?... cure for cancer?... bridge sales?

Simple. The land owner is responsible for the ads, even if someone else is paying them to use the land. Land owner = PIOF. PIOF = accountability. Abuse the privilege and you lose that account, the land, and the ability to use that payment method.

Yes, people can find other payment methods. But there's a limit to that ability, especially if they have to keep replacing land when they reincarnate.

Attrition works.

We don't have an infinite number of land extortionists. It only looks that way.

have sold a 3500+sqm parcel ll roadside, to my 'shock' the buyer was... the blue-diamond-..extortion ..erm sorry ..virtual something...company.
(2 members are Cytherea & Robo , are we suprised ?)


this seems their new tactic:



they have cut the full road-front (512sqm) and filled it with gaming machines, and set the price 3x above average


will LL intervene ?!


.
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Oh yes that IS an improvement, isn't it?

Wait a minute: didnt someone make a slots joke last thread? *snort* and now they're *snort snort* sorry it's just too amusing.

I hope Mister L sees the handiwork and acts accordingly. It's a shame and it's still extortion, only for some reason they're confusing "on the level" with "on the level" (sorry I couldn't resist).

I doubt it. For a few reasons:
1) Jack's recent back-pedalling shows that LL really has no stomach or desire to tackle adfarms or land extortionists.
2) LL gets their tier income whether a sim is own by happy residents or blighted by cr*p.
3) The more residents that are driven by exasperation onto island estates, whether owning them directly or renting from a land baron, the more LL's income increases.
4) Ergo LL has no real motivation to tackle the horrendous land blight as to do so would diminish their profits.
5) I see this entire 'consultation exercise' as little more than a sham on LL's part to see how many of those affected by the land blight can be persuaded by stick or carrot to move off the mainland.

Coming to think of it the entire dynamics of the land extortion and adfarm blight doesn't seem a million miles from the bad old days of the Enclosure Acts when the commoners were driven off the land and into the cities to provide cheap labour for the factories at the beginning of the industrial revolution in England. Here in Second Life residents are being driven off the mainland and onto island estates to profit land barons and LL.

No doubt our current rash of adfarmers and land extortionists will consolidate their holdings and 'prettify up' the mainland once they have driven off the last resident and turned it into their own private estate. When that happens we can be 100% certain that the adfarmers, land extortionists and their lackeys will churn out an entirely revisionist history of Second Life that will sing their praises :\

Much as I despise the people who have brought this blight upon the mainland, I fear the battle is already lost as the powers that be (LL) have been in bed with the adfarmers and land extortionists for too long to change their ways.

Colour me bitter and cynical but that's been my experience in SL.

I thought that too..that Lindens made more money from private estates.
Until i had someone point out the actual sums. Actually the Lindens make more money in tier off small land holders on the mainland. They make less money off large land holders and have to provide more support for the bigger tier holders in the way of live chat etc.
To all those that are accusing Lindens of not caring..i disagree and point to the mere existence of new policies and these forums as clear indicators of them actually wanting to do something. They could have just remained mute and had less hassle.
SL hasn't been, and isn't, dying from an ad plague - in fact its thriving with percentage increases that most companies would love to have.
Can anyone name a game, or business, where more freedom and opportunity exist?

No offence intended Alazarin... if this game is making you bitter and cynical perhaps it would be better for your health to take up another hobby? I'm not trying to be smart - just a suggestion.

Not trying to be offensive but you are not qualified to spew out the above as a statement of fact you have no idea what the profit margin for LL is ... but I dare say it is going up FAST I may have to actualy abandon my main land 38k M sq back to governor linden as no on has shown any interest in buying it even at 4.5 L$ per square meter.

Maybe Alazarin has a point and WHO are you to tell some one what to play and what not to play OMG you think your 48 post in this forum 90% of which are in this thread trying to save ad farms give you right to tell others what and when to do on line Alazarin pays his fees and as long as he adhears to the TOS he has can speak his peace but it was smart of you to care about his health LOL


FACT 1 There is more of main land is for sale then ever before

FACT 2 The REAL asking price for plots is lower then I have ever seen it since 2005 Just do a search for 512, 1024, and other sized plots looke liek it hovers around 4-6 L$ a square meter.

FACT 3 seems like most people do not want ad farms of any kind

FACT 4 Jack seems to realize the importance of the mainland

SELL LOW AD FARMERS SELL LOW AND LOSE MONEY !!

Live long and prosper in RL but in SL I hope your manipulatin of
the system "ad farmers" winds up in a sever los of land value to you

you can alway buy my 32k sq M of mainland cheap and split it up into hundreds of 16 sq meter plots and advertise till they get around to changing the TOS IM me I will cut you a fire sale deal so I can move to my own sim and ban all ad farmers by name

I not good in English and not understand all wat you mean with your proposels. I onlie see that Linden make much to much Rules. SL is going more and more to be an Komunistik Diktation. I come to SL to have friedem from all this rules in the Real - World. But Linden make it more and more worse. If ther so manny peple in SL how like to be laing under rules you can make 2 or 3 mainlands but let 1 mainland like it is. Linden can´t make all peple happy in one land but with this rules you like to establish now, I think I give up and search for a better World.

Perhaps it's not completely clear that these regulations apply *only* to the SL Mainland. Within SL, one is still perfectly welcome to purchase a private Estate without these restrictions, or to rent from existing Estate owners who permit whatever freedoms one feels is lacking from the Mainland. Also, with various open grids coming online, one is just a teleport away from some kinds of freedom so extreme that they may very well land the participant in RL jail.

One can hardly blame LL for not choosing quite that much freedom for the part they manage of the whole constellation of interconnected grids. They aspire to be a respectable company with more than just a handful of customers.

You shouldn't make assumptions about what the requirements or options are for completing a degree. I have a masters degree in Arts and can tell you that you are wrong.

Did you proofread your own entry for errors?



I think that sticking to road sides is a good idea from a marketing perspective.

Personally I do shop at your stores and though I explore extensively in SL I have never seen one of your ad plots. I found one of your shops in search (classifieds) and located others through that lot itself. I have only gone to a store because of an ad plot because it showed a specific item that I was already looking for. Though I admit I don't have data to back it up, I think the effectiveness of ad plots is overrated.

I am still very concerned about the rules for groups: What if I had nothing to do with my group's signs? What's to stop an informal network of adfarmers if they don't belong to an official Linden group?

... One of the next postings might be one of Good Old Mr Hax : Why am i not allowed to sell art ? ...


Erpressung ist eine Verbrechen Elea ...


PS: At the other hand respect for your posting, its not always easy to post when english is not your mothers language, but next time be more reasonable ..

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Matthew 6:24

Jack,

A broad policy with many loopholes is a policy probably doomed to fail, I am afraid.
The fact that many here can't clearly graps the rules proposed is somewhat a proof already.

The common theme I am personally seeing here is that this is creating confusion, and actually damaging the potential and image of legitimate and conscientious advertising .

The license road was the best approach in my view and I invite you to revisit it with the same rules with less limitation, so that "not so smart" people, or people who don't read terms are discouraged from even trying to get into the advertising business at the first place.

The way I see this working is to deliver licenses fairly easily as long as the account is in good standing, and have the license revoked after 3 clear violations, with disciplinary measure on the second occurrence. A fourth attempt and the land will be seized. A fifth and the account shall be closed.

Your ability to enforce effectively remains similar but at least that way you legitimize good advertising vs putting both into a mixed bag.

That is a good question. It is both a deliberate attempt to get around the rules (which Jack said was a no-no) and butting heads with the gambling ban as well. Hopefully LL will apply their own rules rather than ignoring the issue.

I hate to be pessimistic here, but... the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is just not going to work. We keep hitting issues that just aren't handled unless we grant total latitude to the "intent"--to the point of just saying that LL should do whatever it thinks best, in all situations.

A couple of thorny examples from this thread:

The "affiliate network" loophole, where the same content is being displayed by multiple completely distinct landowning accounts for compensation, undetectably, thus bypassing the 50 parcel limit and thereby leading to an *increase* in the number of microparcels on the grid. If Concierge can even find a way to detect this, it will be arbitrary which of the affiliates (if any) survive.

The "group with kiosks that are almost ads" problem, where some freestanding prim assemblies bear commercial sponsor logos, but are intended to promote some in-world community event or cause. If these are exempt, it's just a judgment call for Concierge.

The "land for sale signs" for multiple parcels in a region. If this is allowed for larger parcels, how to prevent extortionist microparcels from paving the roadside with scores of these things in each sim? To do so is really to say that microparcels aren't welcome--and, for almost all purposes, they're not. They're really how the Mainland was ravaged, and what will keep it from improving.

So, my suggestion: Ban *all* outdoor advertising from unzoned Mainland. That is, existing Mainland is zoned "No Ads". When newly zoned sims are brought to auction, offer some with "Ads Allowed" and some with "No Ads", according to whatever the advertising policy is for such sims, and see what gets bids, and for what amounts. Devise a means for existing sims to petition to be re-zoned to have ads, if that's the preference of some supermajority of the landbase of the sim.

And by "No Ads", I really mean "No Ads" displayed outside of a structure. No land for sale signs. No information kiosks outside a structure. Maybe somebody can come up with language that safely permits a store identifying sign on a larger parcel without opening the floodgates for the present spew of sewage, but if not, even that would be disallowed.

And while we're at it (and to make such language possible), let's quit pussyfooting around about the fact that it's microparcels that are causing the problem in the first place. Parcels of different sizes simply need different treatment. I can see no compelling economic reason that parcels under, say, 128sq.m. need to have non-phantom, non-transparent prims, nor that they should be subject to independent terraforming, nor be eligible for sale at any price. There are a very few non-harassing business features that this would affect, but damned few, and few enough that it's a winning trade to lose these nuisances.

Concierge still needs latitude to deal with edge cases in such a formulation, but I really think it's time LL quits overvaluing the potential business of display advertising in-world. For those few who claim it is working at all, it's doing so only by stepping all over the content of its neighbors. If that's such a great idea, let us post random ad content in arbitrary sizes and page locations all over secondlife.com; don't worry, we'll supply the webhosting for those ads, just like the advertisers bought their microparcels.

Revisiting the land for sale signs:

Some people don't see the need or benefit of them, but others do, so they have to be allowed, but I really don't see how it can work properly within the stated rules. There are many times when a person has more than one 'normal' parcel for sale in a sim - land marketers, people moving to elsewhere, etc. - and each parcel should have a sign, if the seller feels that it would be useful. 8m signs on a set if 16m parcels would be an eyesore, whereas one here and one over there wouldn't be as much of an eyesore, although it could be if a person is selling a large parcel and cuts it into smaller ones for easier sales.

I think that a rule for land sale signs should be added, that allows a person to have more than one in a sim, but perhaps not up to 8m high. A flat horizontal sign on the ground, or on top of a building, would work I think. It wouldn't be perfect but it would allow what definitely should be allowed (one person having a sign on each for sale parcel in the sim), but without the signs being eyesores.

humm not a bad plan but will people be able to put a sign on the outside of a store they run/own or do you think the entire mainland as is should be no advertising until new mainland is added...

I hope it was ARed, too. Looks like it would apply on all sorts of levels.

Anyway, I see that the thread is starting to devolve into ranting and name-calling. A shame, really.

Well, to be honest, I'm just not clever enough to figure out how to allow people to have signs for their own stores without opening up the possibility for every adfarmer to go right back in business, unless there's some selectivity based on parcel size. Maybe somebody else can figure out a way around that, but if we just invoke the "intent" thing, it's really just hiding that size-sensitivity behind Concierge enforcement procedures. I don't see why we don't just come right out and say what we mean about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianne McCann
Maybe try the community standards? I've long known that to be the case inworld. Surely someone can cite it.


Part 5 of the CS..
Quote:
Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines.

The can be (and has been) interpreted as meaning that adult bits must be walled off or otherwise non-obvious to people who are just flying around.


I await 1st October with interest. I have a large roadside plot, and the ever changing landscape of ad plots amazes me. Sometimes I feel a little guilty - I get quite a bit of traffic and they seemed to have increased since I opened up. A lot of the land is for sale, mostly at extortionate prices, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

On the topic of what goes on in Mature Sims, opposite I have a Sex Camp. Basically, this is where people can camp for money, but instead of just sitting, they have to perform sex acts by sitting on the various poseballs. There are also 15 or so "animated videos" which show sex acts, some of which are quite explicit. It is a mature sim, but this is all out in the open. Is this acceptable?

Edited to add - this plot is also for sale, at way over market price. So I assume she buys it cheap, fills it full of porn so that someone nearby is so desperate to get rid of it they will pay what she wants!!

Yeah, I really wonder about this rule. I mean, I really think for sale signs are a waste of time and they do indeed look ugly and I only put them out because Skye insists on it. I'd say the signs we put up are pretty non-intrusive and we have a general guideline of not cutting large parcels into dozens of 512s so it never looks like a sea of squares. That said, I own way more than 50 parcels and way more than one parcel per sim in tons of sims. So basically it's going to be impossible for me to put for sale signs up now which is a bit annoying.

Anyway, I guess I'm OK with the new rule but it feels a little odd to be restricted like this and I suppose I'm one of the edge cases that has to be eliminated to stop the general abuse.

I would highly doubt it is acceptable in light of the CS, but only the Lindens can say.

By the time I was 22.

LOL