Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

If you didn't get the opportunity to leave under your own steam, I'd contact the owner first and, if it doesn't get changed to allow a person to leave, then I'd AR it.

I asked Jack earlier if the spirit in which the Lindens will be working to, covers all these edge cases or not.

We all know the adfarmers, extortionists and some of the advertisers are highly unlikely to just bend over and be reasonable.
Also some of the anti ad campaigners have shown disregard for the surrounding neighbors to.

Jubby was kind enough to put out a photo of what quite frankly was a EFing mess.
Where is Jubby btw he seems very quiet atm

This is why Jack needs to come and state clearly the types of things he and the other Lindens are going to term unreasonable and ways they mean to tackle them, in some ways the looseness of this policy allows the lindens more scope to act as they see fit.

Affiliate advertising sounds a real area of concern, why have no size settings been mentioned beyond the 8m height, what about vending machines on small plots how many of these will be tolerated?
There are many other issues and yet Jack covered it by the vague statement of making sure everyone follows the spirit of this proposal and any edge cases will be dealt with as they occur.

Jack

Does this mean that if someone places out a load of gambling machines on small plots, instead of advertisements, which I read somewhere is already happening.
Will you be intending to step in and remove them on or after 1st October?

We need confirmation on this and all other issues as although the proposal does give you the options you require to act.
There seems to be a reoccurring theme of we heard it all before, what makes it different this time?

You're wrong, sorry to tell you. Jubjub advertises his own stores just like I do. He may also rent some ad space on his banners, but from my experience he was reasonable. All he asks for is a trade for another parcel in the same sim. In my case he took a trade in a different sim because the products we sell are so similar. If half of you took the time to IM advertisers and speak with a civil tongue, at least half of them are willing to work things out with you. That may not have always been the case, but it is now and it will hopefully only get better.

As Jack said, the exceptions are going to be more numerous than the hard and fast rules. So there's going to be a lot of case by case action. And more than just railing and fighting and protesting, it's going to take working together.

I just have two comments:

Why not disallow the sale of any lot sized under 256sqm priced greater than 0L$? Make it so we simply cannot set lots smaller then 256 for sale unless it is set to 0L$ (to a specific resident), and that will severely decrease extortion issues. It will also eliminate the attractiveness of dividing a large lot into dozens of ad spots. Keeping the ability to sell for 0L$ will still allow trades between specific residents. As part of this, also disallow listing in land sale search for any parcel sized under 256sqm. It seems like a fairly simple solution to me. Do we really need the ability to sell such tiny parcels? If an advertiser is truly legitimate, then they won't be concerned about selling their 16sqm parcel in the open market, and will still have recourse to make private deals with legitimate buyers by transferring it for 0L$, or rejoining to a larger parcel for sale.

I would also like to encourage LL to make public the names of any residents that are given permission to exceed the 50 ad limit. Jack, you spoke of transparency, and that is great; we definitely need that transparency.


*edited to clarify I meant "land sale search"

Your alt needs a little time out before playtime and cookies.

Extortion is illegal. Price gouging is illegal.

One of the most fundamental rules in SL, you cannot break real world laws.

Not only should extortionists and price gougers be outright banned, they should also be charged with criminal offenses.

I think that'd just make the extortionists do a bit more work - people would have to 'bargain' with them and agree on a price before buying it.

There's a downside to doing this: by contacting the extortionist, you're letting them know that you're interested in the parcel...


I don't want to encourge ad farmers at all - I'm in the "just ban 'em now, Jack!" camp - but I'm not sure you can say that extortion/price gouging is globally illegal. That and if somebody's willing to pay the price, the price is not too high. Sadly.

Are you and Elder partnered? If not, you should be.. Maybe Ingrid can officiate.

That's exactly right.

Contacting an extortioner is the worst possible thing, because it indicates to them your motivation to buy back the view.

In most cases, they raise the price.

I am... lets say... pro choice. Semi-neutral kind of way.

I am however 100% anti-dirty big business.

You seem so up on your legal knowledge maybe you should be the first jackass to press RL charges. LOL

Stupid is as stupid does.

By the way, I am NO ONES ALT. lol

Educate before you communicate before I expose all of your alts and dirty big business tactics and lies.

Got me a thick folder on you full of NCs, IMs and screenshots.

<slaps his knee as he doubles over in laughter>

You talk a big game but I don't buy it.

If I understand her system correctly (I use it at NCI for our Maps and our Landmark Givers), what you are asking is not possible without replacing each of the client kiosks in the system.

I have a bad feeling about this. It's begining to feel just like the LL "Traffic" issue many of us thought we were helping with. Many meetings, etc, clear preferences, but in the end, the initial strong LL words were diluted so much by what appeared to be a predetermined outcome that it ended up being a waste of time. I'm hoping this will not be the case here, but the recent washing down to the favor of "advertisers" has me worried. Jack and LL, please listen to the Many, and not the few. Consider the idea of making lots <= 256m2 only saleable for $L0. Would help, along with the sept 12 rules.

Extortion and price gouging are clearly illegal.

The "willing to pay" is irrelevant. If a gang of bikers walk into your store and ask for "protection money" You don't have to pay it. That doesn't mean trouble will go away on it's own though. Money does not need to change hands, whereas the "intent" to extort is subject to the same laws.

Price gouging is the same. An example would be gas companies raising the price of fuel during the evacuation of New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. Several companies are facing criminal charges as a result.

/me is very strongly against that, Hodgey!

From a post above..

Just wow...... AR'd for personal attacks, threats, disclosure and slander all in one thread.

One of the FashCon kiosks is outside the store across from my home. It is tucked nicely outside their entrance.

These kiosks are something I notice much more often than any ad signs. They are all small and well done. Just because the policy says you can have 8m high and full bright doesn't mean you have to.

If advertisers take some time and pay attention to the details of the ad signs they make, their "click thru" etc might just increase. It has been information overload for far too long. Something different and well made is much more noticeable.

I wouldn't write the traffic meetings off yet. It takes time to develope and programme a new system of metrics. Give it time.

Someone turn on the AC and hand WH a breath mint.

What is good for the goose Mr Two Faces.

Did you tell mommy too?

Please stop it, you two.

I just love how all of these adcutter extortionist alts attack one of the few legitimate microparcel operations in SL.

Let them talk I say. It only stipulates to the need to remove them entirely.

WH and all related alts pat your back while stealing your wallet.

IM me in world for a packet.

Restrictions apply and supplies are limited.

Okay WH it is now legal with my above mentioned disclaimer.
Oh my, I hope I don't get charged with felony possesion of truthful materials.

AR'd for stalking, disclosure and bad spelling.

The WH hot air effect. We now found the cause of global warming! I think we should AR Mr Two Face for this before the SL weather patterns start to change.

You seem reasonable, so can I ask you a few questions about the following scenario?

If this sounds offensive it really isn't meant to be btw.

Advertising scenario
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I think for sake of argument that I may begin to advertise myself, so I get my 50 parcels and place out some rather nice 4x4 advertising boards that I design to match the theme of my shop, which will be old world, these adverts are wooden medieval style notices with my shop name on.

Of the 50 parcels I purchase cheaply, some of these are in not the best of locations, so neighbors decide they don't want my advert there, they build a wall that now makes my sensibly sized little advert invisible to anyone that doesn't actually land on my 16sqm plot.

This makes me real angry because my sign is real nice I put a lot of effort into it, so I contact the neighbor tell him to remove his efing wall, he's got no right to block my advert.
He tells me he has got a right to build anything he wants there and promptly AR's me for swearing at him.

So I take down my advert begrudgingly and think I will get that tw*t back and go find a new place to put my advert.

Then a few weeks down the line the neighbor contacts me asks if he can buy my plot, so I think yeah sure wan*er you can have it but you gonna pay, after all he did AR me, so I tell him I will swap the plot for one of the prime roadside ones that someones charging a fortune for or take 5000L for it so I can go look for one myself.
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Here are my questions and answers.

Is buying cheap plots so you can bang out 50 adverts quickly is a good idea?
No
Should the area be vetted before you placed out an advert?
Yes
Is a particular design type suitable in all areas?
No
Is it fair to block a advert?
Yes
Is it likely that arguments will occur?
Yes
Is it reasonable to ask a high price for relocation?
No

When reading through the scenario it is clear the whole situation is avoidable on both sides of the fence, but what caused the situation in the beginning?

Poor placement of the advert.

This is where Jubby falls down because he is the bitter angry advertiser, and on the other side their are loads of bitter angry ad protesters.
Neither of which are prepared to compromise.

I don't think he is as much the mercenary as many of the adfarmers but he is hopping mad and would take the money for the prime plot.

Placement is the key or this issue is just not going to be sorted out to everyones satisfaction any time soon.

What Meade said. Two to tango and all that. AR threads all you want, sure, but let's keep the discussion above board and let the attacks go, kay?

That’s BS. Beetle bailey owned a whole block in ultron and so nicely had a 16 set aside for u and your underground adnet. Cant unearth any alts here its ROBO. Plain and simple you cowards use ad farmers to buy up the land people dump then complain about them. You use alts to run ad farms yourself and then complain. All hypocrites. The truth is many of you arbor people are probably LL employees. The truth will be unveiled, we have nothing to fear how about you!

ROBO

Yes seen it happen, another vote for the ban them now brigade