Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

I made a simple observation in an earlier thread which was "Extortion and price gouging are RL felonies"

For that, I get attacked with threats and lies.

No way, will I let that stand, however...point taken.

By that same flawed logic Phil, no one has the right to a view of anything from their land. You're no more entitled to a waterfront view than JubJub is a view of the road. Try actually thinking about what you're saying before you hit submit reply.

Then it will be unfortunate when someone ruins her good name and efforts by using her terminals in a way which violates the ToS. I would only hope LL focuses on the specific person using her terminals in violation, but I can also see them saying "well, they are your terminals, you need to control their use better", and pretty much require such a thing.

It is something I am building into my affiliate ad network system. While replacing a large install base would be a pain, the payoff may be greater than the cost in the long run.

Oh I do think, and you're right. I have no more right to lines of sight from or to my land than JubJub has to and from his. Is there a point you'd like to make?

I don't criticise JubJub for advertising his stores. What I do criticise is that he thinks he has rights that his ads are seen from far and wide, but he hasn't.

Yes they really show their real colors don't you think.

You pay the initial US9 any size and you add over it.

In the event you have a 512 plot you pay US$9. In the event you have a 1024 plot you pay US$9 + US$5 = US$14 and so on.

My point here is the misuse of the 512 plot that was to help the new player to have a land to start with. As the new rules apply each user will have to have only 50 ads and only one per parcel.

this means the extorcionist will have to have more ALTs to place more ADs per region. In the event he has 10 plot in the region he willhave to create 10 alts so there will be a false flood of new accounts, because they will try to keep the adv farms

I think the new policy will clean up the mainland a lot. Specifically, the 8 m limit. The present ad towers are so big they dominate the view. Let's see how things look when the towers and floating ads are gone. I think the landscape will be far different when there are no ads above the tree tops.
And if someone was foolish enough to raise the land 4 m up from the surroundings to place an ad, it will be such an obvious attempt to circumvent the rules that it cannot last long. I hope punishment for such attempts will be swift and painful.
When a micro-plot owner puts some "art" on the land just to annoy neighbors, it matters whether the land is for sale or not. Anything above current market value and the art is an extortion tool that should be ARed. If they want to sell a 16, it must be at posted average prices for that day. Less than they paid? Too bad. I bet the same people lost money when the gambling ban went into effect too. If the land is not for sale and contains questionable material, there is not much that can be done except to welcome the owner into the Tasteless Mainland Builder's Club, a huge organization that is growing daily.
I am especially happy that ads will be PG now. Even in mature regions, even with models scantily clothed, XX and R ads are immediately categorized as "bad ones" and reflect poorly on SL. I have nothing against any of the sex industry but their ads simply inflame the issue and should be kept indoors.

Without going the whole hog and banning ad plots completely, limiting ad plots per sim could work, except for exceptional reasons, regardless of who owns the plots, AND limiting it to nn plots per person over the whole of mainland.

Precisely.

There are a few of us here, who operate microparcel networks and/or advertising systems.

I have read most of Carl's posts, and like ourselves, we do care about view sheds, asthetics, dynamic boundaries and the well being of the community.

Clearly, the community at large are seriously affected and greatly concerned about the direction the mainland is headed. I cannot speak for Carl, but I'm sure he feels "stuck in the middle" of this fight, as we are. It's not right, that resident business who are upstanding should be pitted against those who only wish to do harm and those who want them rid of, once and for all.

Well, I did note the problem was that LEGITIMATE advertisers, and/or those following the rules, would get tarred with the same brush (caught in the crossfire, etc.)

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I happen to regard it as a problem if rules-following (law-abiding) and/or innocent residents get caught in this and acted against unjustly.

I'm scratching my head as to why you don't think that innocents getting blasted as a result of LL's poor policies and definitions is a problem...

I think Phils right he doesn't have the right to a water front view unless he owns the protected strip thats why its more expensive.
Anything can be built in his way just as it can be in Jubbys or your way.

If I'm reading you correctly, that's exactly right. If the limit were to be ads/sim, it could have an effect. As it is, though, it's ads/sim/person, which will create a whole lot of new 35-ad adfarmers-for-pay, and a whole lot of new ad locations. The content will look hauntingly familiar from one to another, but the accounts will be unassociated, as far as anybody--even Lindens--can tell.

Without a limit (explicit or implied) per sim (and preferably, locations hand-picked by LDPW) this is going to be completely unenforceable.

I thought I had seen every kind of scam while reclaiming this ad farm in Chiron. I have everyone out now, with the exception of 11, 16m parcels. One owned by Mr.L, graciously set to full alpha for now, 4 owned by extortionists, one owned by a student who left it and hasn't logged on in ages, and five owned by someone who advertises RL beverages. This last person was part of the previous thread because I told him about it. (I won't say his name and don't want anyone to hassle him)

I've offered to trade this person 5 roadside 16m parcels for the 5 they own in the now defunct Chiron ad farm, which is very, very far from the road, but very close to my shop. I offered land in the same sim, or multiple sims. I offered to buy at above market price. The response I got was puzzling. "Well, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it yet... but you can rent it if you like... I think I may stay because it's really nice here now." Rent? Like I want to rent 5 16M squares inside my property, with 5 different stations playing and age verification barriers. Stay? Like how? You gonna build a Tiny mansion on those 16M lots?

Amazing, so after calmly and reasonably trying to explain that this ad farm is going away October 1st, now he acts like I'm bothering him and he doesn't want to trade or sell and just leave him alone. Which I will do, I have no interest in hassling him. Come October 1st though, I file AR's and I'm going after those parcels because they're 100% inside my land. LL labs will most likely sell them to me and that will be that. No more extortion or hold outs (fingers crossed), but I did offer him $ or trade, I tried. Some people don't want money I guess. They'd much rather have some tiny strand of power to annoy people with.

I'm really looking forward to October 1st, just to see all this stuff begin to be taken care of.

Imagine a set of 9 16's (3x3) with 9 different ad farmers with 9 4x4x8 ad towers, all AR'ing each other for "Blocking Their View".

You did read me right. Something like 2, 3 or 4 ad plots per sim, regardless of who owns them. And still not allow anyone to have more than nn ad plots throughout the whole of mainland (if that part can actually be done).

An addition:
Only one ad object per ad plot.

Alts are also stated as a violation under the policy and with LL checking transaction histories the links between them would soon show up.
Also now the extortionist own a sim or more of land using one or two payed accounts, which make their tier the lowest it can be.
If they had to pay for each alt separately would the practice still be sustainable for them?
Unfortunately I think it will be if they pay for each of these alts upfront for a year as someone stated earlier.
But at 9$ per month each probably not, it really depends how many of the plots they sell.
Perhaps we should ask Robo, he's bound to have the figures.

While they might not be able to spot all alt associations, I'd bet they're better at it than people suspect..

LOL bet poor Jubby gets the middle.

Unfortunately, you will have a NIMBY effect. Who is going to volunteer to be the one in their sim near the ads?

It depends what the ads look like. I can envisage it looking quite nice, but maybe I'm naive that way.

I'd certainly volunteer to be next to one in the main sim I'm in. Of course, I don't use the ground

Here in the UK, there are set advertising hoardings and I don't think that people can just buy a piece of land and erect one. It would be nice if LL could/would operate something like that. A difference between LL and RL is that, in RL, you can't just go sticking ads up right next to people's property - right in their noses - whereas you can in SL under the new rules.

Hm..

I'm thinkin' the moles should build a new city. Something like Bay City but smaller - maybe 5-6 sims - and with parcel division enabled and advertising allowed by covenant. All parcels would initially be 128m2 and the regions would be off in the corner of of the map somewhere, though still 'mainland' .

LL could put the parcels to auction and the ad farmers could hold a feeding frenzy and bid the crap out of the land.

Everybody wins. The entire place is filled with ad farmers, all happily trying to out-glow/spin the others and selling parcels to each other at silly prices. LL gets a nice bag of cash from the auction, the rest of us just never go there.

Limiting adverts to no more than 4 per sim sounds good to me in principle but that possibly prevents them being placed logically.

As I see it the best use of the adverts would be for private shop owners to advertise their wares like Shimada or Jubby.

The most effective points would be in the same sim as the shop, and the immediate neighboring sim to effectively inform what the shop has to offer and point any users to the shop.
It seems logical that if walking in a sim I may visit a nearby shop, where as I would be less likely to TP off to the other side of the world to go look at it.

It also seems likely that homes would be placed near other homes and shops near other shops. This is where I see the problem once the first four shops put up their advertisements then any others would be unable to do so, effectively removing the level playing field.

Also spreading the adverts four per sim would make it more likely every sim would share in the blight, where as hopefully if common sense prevails we would tend to get commercial areas with more advertising and traffic and residential areas with less or no advertising.
I am not talking about zoning, just the likely effect of migration.

*shrug* Maybe he is going to become a legitimate advertiser and put up ads for his store on them. (Seriously; not trying to be sarcastic here, but that's basically what we are all looking at with the latest revision of policy). Other than that, I dunno. Probably just being a holdout to be a jerk.

Jack,

Are you ever going to post any comments on this thread to indicate how you respond to the reactions expressed here?

You have a right to view anything on your own land. If you prefer to view a fence at the end (or in the middle) of your land, you have every right.

And now, according to LL, you have a right to a view over 8m of that waterfront. They just choose the lower 8m to be a fence instead of an extortion sign.