Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

Well, let's see.

You are a major landholder in the sim, and thus, pay a significant amount of tier so you can enjoy your Second Life in a way you see fit (within the ToS, of course). Since you have owned a store in the past, I presume you may still have one there on your land. Even if not, let's say for purposes of argument that you are.

You are selling X product. Someone comes in and puts a very tasteful ad on a microparcel next to your store for their cheaper version of your product. People come to your store, have their eyeballs (and pocketbooks) subverted by said ad, and promptly leave to go buy that product.

You are paying for people to come and enjoy / shop at your home, and someone is using a postage stamp ad to subsume your customerbase.

Beyond that, let's say that someone putting advertising near people aggravates them severely. Who should have more right to enjoy their SL in your region? You, or Mr. Advertiser, who ads NOTHING to your region, except his very tasteful, yet still spammy, ad.

How is that not parasitic?

If there is further reason, known extortionist, ad rule violation etc., which you convince me of here, that's ok. But I would not accept that simply owning a piece of land, before you surrounded it, can be grounds for confiscation. That is too dangerous a precedent.

While it's nice to see so many people 'concerned' about my 'attitude' I feel there there is some facts ya'll should know:

1/ I have only ever advertised my own shops/brands...mainly an Art Gallery (for RL artists), a sim called Garden World (self explanatory), One Prim Plants, and various minor shops. I do not sell anything sex related, nor BDSM, nor anything thats not PG (i want my 62 year old mum to be able to look at all my products without feeling ashamed)
2/ My ads were 4x4 cubes.. non flashing, non-particle, non-rotate...their sole function was click to get LM and notecard. User choice.
3/ I chose locations mainly one per sim, mainly roadside - they were not set for sale (i am not in the business of land re-selling). Mainland, mature, uncovenanted sims only. I bought primarily on price.. and did have plots that were not roadside
4/ Where a resident approached me reasonably to sell - i asked for an offer.... if they offered too much i talked them down. In all cases i sold for less than $400LD (about $1.50 for all the hassle) - i was offered up to 2000LD. Several times i swapped - but disliked that cause to me it seemed a bit two-faced of the resident ("it's ok as long as not by MY land". Several times i simply gave the land away - if i liked their attitude or intent. In one case i actually bought other ad plots and donated them too (value of approx 3k).
5/ Where a resident approached with abuse, demands, extortion, or unreasonable requests - I declined to sell.
6/ The ads were highly successful.... a one week half-price sale generated an extra 57k in turnover in one shop. It's why i know there is demand, and it's why i am still interested in putting ads up. I do all other forms of advertising as well..current highest classified is 35k, group notices, etc etc
7/ My ads are currently removed - 'cause i believe in the spirit of the law rather than the letter of it and instructions were all ads to be removed (were). My ad plots where they are not roadside are for currently set for sale (well 99% of em). I am keeping roadside to see what eventuates.
8/ In 4-5 months of building up and operating the ad network (330 plots when this rule change happened) I had thousands of clicks and only 8 problems/complaints. 2 of the problems were from anti-ad people who took it upon themselves to harass on behalf of everyone else. I had 15 people approach to buy - 12 I sold to.
9/ I do not like extortion nor do i support any of the people involved in it. My ads existed solely to pull people to my shops where they would hopefully buy something nice.
10/ I loathe bullies... i will lose money/time rather than give in and encourage them. I admit sometimes i have thought it might be easier to give in.

I do not write this to defend my practices - i don't think they need defending. I do not write in these forums to defend extortionists or harassers. I am not trying to say "i'm a nice guy" I am just pointing out my practices to hopefully stop the false accusations.

I will point out hypocricy. I will point out illogical and unfair arguments. I dislike name-calling and false accusations. I dislike sweeping generalizations and exaggerations like "all ad farmers are extortionists" or "they do criminal behaviour". However i do realize people get heated and say umm silly? things.
Finally, I will ask questions to get clarity on rules because i want to play this game by it's rules...it's not as much fun to win by cheating. (not that i can 'win')

//end rant

We need to make distinctions here.

There is advertising in-world. Legitimate shops from time to time, use satellite plots for signs vendors etc. Ones that are thoughtfully located (mainly way from residential or otherwise quiet land)

Then there is "in your face" advertising. Distaste for that is exponentially larger to the masses.

Then of course there is extortion, under the guise of advertising.

Lumping one into another does nothing to bring validity into the argument.

Our group does not advertise in any way, nor do we extort residents with outrageous prices, nor do we hack decent parcels into donuts, checkerboards or otherwise unsellable land.

Yet, we feel stuck in the middle of this fray, because people for the mostpart are suspicious of our group. Not because of our doing, but as a result of others misdeeds. Despite our best efforts to work with our neighbors in an amicable way, sometimes it's just not possible, because real perceptions have spilled over into our business.

We have no idea from one day to the next, whether LL will uphold our rights or pull the pin on us completely or simply allow us to slip through the cracks of some other policy which has nothing to do with us.

It's very disquieting.

Sometimes, doing your very best and leading by example is not good enough.

//end rant

It is only the size of these parcels that make them a nuisance. Can you think of any good reason for them to stay?

//end rant

It is only the size of these parcels that make them a nuisance. Can you think of any good reason for them to stay?

I know you are the only person who had a 16sqm near me and ever dealt with me nicely.
I mentioned it in the last blog post, along with many others.
People know you are fair Weedy.

I didn't say that it isn't possible to be parasitic. I said that I don't see that ads on 16m plots are necessarily parasitic.

Now take the same scenario, and let's say that it's an ad for a clothes shop right outside my store. If it's a nice ad, I can see it enhancing the area.

Worth adding to the dicussion. I think the pull quote form Jack is most telling.

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2008/09/more-from-jack.html

yes Jack already explained it micro land lots are here to stay end of deal

LL can not have curving roads and Rail roads and other Public works projects with out them

Land owners can not have various uses of specialized media on their own land with out the use of micro plots

I say we change (just a bit) the way land is bought and sold

And totally restrict out door mainland advertising to the road and rail road

Push SL toward the same kind of Advertising you find on the 2D web

If you have a place that will generate business Charge advertisers to show an add just like google ads pays web content providers to place google ads

read this post please

/346/9a/281807/23.html#post2149652/346/9a/281807/23.html#post2149652

and ideas

YOUR efforts generated the traffic that would see the ad. YOU paid for those efforts in many different ways. WHY should someone come in, pay a pittance, and PROFIT off of YOUR efforts? .... If people want to be competitive, then they can buy a regular plot and set up a store.

You missed my point completely. I wasn't questioning whether 16M lots in general had any use. Of course they do. I was asking, very specifically, if anyone could think of any good reason to allow these specific 5, 16m parcels to remain within my land, nowhere near a road, in the middle of a public park.

Yet, it doesn't matter what the content of the ad is.

YOUR efforts generated the traffic that would see the ad. YOU paid for those efforts in many different ways. WHY should someone come in, pay a pittance, and PROFIT off of YOUR efforts?

THAT is what makes it parasitic.

People are making money from your blood, sweat, and tears, and giving NOTHING to you or the community they invade in return.

At least an affiliate network is a symbiotic relationship.

If people want to be competitive, then they can buy a regular plot and set up a store.

All things being equal, a small ad on a 16 sq. meter parcel and a stall on a 64 sq. meter plot would be equally parasitic. Actually, in the scenario you presented, buying a regular plot or renting a storefront would all be equally parasitic. And the solution in all cases would be the same: lower prices in order to remain competitive.

But in Phil's scenario, they do have a clothing store. The point here should really be not whether they are benefitting from your effort, but whether they are taking away from your rewards.

In biology, there is a fine line between parasitism and symbiosis. It is not in the interests of a parasite to damage the host that provides its sustennance. Therefore the optimally adapted parasite does little or no harm to its host. The maladapted parasite will cause an epidemic of disease, as we are now suffereing from maladapted advertisers. A pathogenic parasite either adapts to preserve the wellbeing of its host, or perishes!

Ok JubJub what do you think of my post

/346/9a/281807/23.html#post2149652/346/9a/281807/23.html#post2149652

would this be a fair way to conduct out door advertising?
I think Just like regular 2 D web pages the 3D content in SL has room for realistic advertising any ideas

Not hardly.

When you invest your time and money buying a comparatively-sized plot, building it, maintaining it, advertising it (in non-parasitic ways), and then compare it to a microparcel advertising parasite's investment (or even a 64sqm "booth" plot), it simply is not even the same species of animal.

Here in the US, for many years, there was a huge chain of discount department stores known as K-Mart (also, Kresge, Jupiter, and one other name I don't remember). They were the original discount department store chain. Years later, a small upstart department store chain owner from Bentonville, Arkansas decided to go up against them. He didn't do it by sticking a little hole in the wall store or ad billboard next K-Mart (though he probably couldn't, sign ordinances and all that), he built stores across the street from each and every one, and continued up to the present day. Now, K-Mart is about as dead as a dodo bird, but Wal*Marts are literally everywhere.

While I am not crazy about the mass corporatism that Wal*Mart represents, the point is that, at least on the spectrum of competitive tactics which relate to the situation in SL, that's how fair competition should operate.

I see some common suggestions emerging... and would like input on the following;

6/ No harassment of small plot owners to force sales (ie by deliberately surrounding land for no other purpose). Either the land is for sale with nothing on it, or it has non-harassing build. An owner shouldn't be forced to sell... sometimes they have small plots just for prim value. Some buy them just to add trees.

Inputs/flaws in logic anyone?

I see some common suggestions emerging... and would like input on the following;

2/ Limits on the number of ads per sim (as well as existing limits on how many per group or individual). I can see this forcing the price of ad plots up quite a bit BUT if below suggestions applied it would counter this to some degree
3/ Limits on how long a parcel can be for sale. Maybe a standown time after? Would force more realistic, lower prices and thereby lower the barrier to entry for newer buyers/players. Would also encourage better pricing just because of the labour involved in constantly re-doing the land settings.

I see some common suggestions emerging... and would like input on the following;

1/ Ads on small plots (including vendors and as defined thus far by Lindens for size shape etc) to be restricted to roadside (connected to road) only.

2/ Limits on the number of ads per sim (as well as existing limits on how many per group or individual). I can see this forcing the price of ad plots up quite a bit BUT if below suggestions applied it would counter this to some degree

3/ Limits on how long a parcel can be for sale. Maybe a standown time after? Would force more realistic, lower prices and thereby lower the barrier to entry for newer buyers/players. Would also encourage better pricing just because of the labour involved in constantly re-doing the land settings.

4/ Maybe a limit on how many parcels a group or person can have for sale at one time? Would encourage a faster turnover and more realistic/competitive pricing. Major land sellers would replace high profits with faster turnover. Would also encourage faster sales by less land being available at any one time.

5/ No blocking of ads on 3 or 4 sides...roadside would mean two sides open (most roads are on angles). A homeowner could still put a wall up to block his view but shouldn't stop others seeing them - walls would be longer straight sections. On straight lengths of road this would mean an ad every second position.

6/ No harassment of small plot owners to force sales (ie by deliberately surrounding land for no other purpose). Either the land is for sale with nothing on it, or it has non-harassing build. An owner shouldn't be forced to sell... sometimes they have small plots just for prim value. Some buy them just to add trees.

7/ A limit on how many cuts/divisions to land you can make per time limit (say per week?)
Thereby preventing the wholesale division of land by land cutters.

Inputs/flaws in logic anyone?