Jack - Why allow child avatars on Zindra?

My probelm is not with child avs but depictions of children in an adult zoned area. It simply does not belong, regardless if one is age verified or not.



I never said that. This is a misquote, but you know that.

So... depictions of children is sexual situations is OK so long as it's not an adult rated sim?

Ok... you didn't say this? It's fun to act silly and goof off, but in your opinion there is no room for it in Zindra. What am I missing?

From the communications I had and got word of with Linden Lab, it was NOT a corporate decision. It was the result of a select few higher-ups in the organizing committee that the majority of people disagreed with. Most of the time, the community would be referred to these select few people because nobody else understood the how and why such a decision was made.... INCLUDING Linden Lab staff. (=_=)

Unless you were directly involved with the arrangements to restrict and later allow the presentations, you basically know NOTHING at all. You do not speak for the lab. You don't not know the scope and scale of the decisions they make. All you have is uneducated assumptions, even up to this point. (=_=)

Most kid avatars know they can't get involved in sex depictions. And, won't, accordingly. If/when you see a kid avatar within the boundaries of a sexually themed parcel, be rest assured that the kid is driven by either someone who hasn't read the guidelines yet or is simply an idiot. But... If the kid is outside the boundaries of the parcel and not in visual proximity of sex depictions or paraphernalia, then it's no harm, no foul... PG/Mature/Adult or otherwise. This is how it worked on (Mature) land all this time... It's how it will work on (Adult) land now. It's already documented in the KB. (^_^)

From what I can see. If there are any (sexual)ageplayers left... They will be in closed groups. They will be on private, group-access-only sims. And, they will probably, if not surely, NEVER venture out to mainland at the risk of being discovered for what they do. If they do, I'm sure they have an adult or at least an unknown and disposable alt to take care of that role. (=_=)

So, really, you're barkin up the wrong tree. You're not preventing real harm from occurring to real children. You're not doing anything to prevent (sexual)ageplay. And, you're ignoring a corporate decision made by Linden Lab to satisfy your own, individual, rationalization of what "Adult" means. (=_=)

Imnot, please. As long as child avatars are allowed in Second Life there will be sexual ageplayers anywhere child avatars are.
Imnot, you ignored a decision by Linden Lab when LL banned child avatars from SL5B. Hypocritical statement.

you and your friends can gather together and do the same thing that happened with SL5B. pull out of and boycott Zindra. or make a real statement: leave SL.

People who would engage in such would not be part of the kid's community. If anyone did, they would probably go behind closed doors and change AVs. So you would only be hurting the people that DO play kid avatars openly without engaging in sexual ageplay while allowing sexual ageplay to continue.

So why do you want sexual ageplay to continue so much?





How is forming another celebration (KIDS5B) at the same time as SL5B ignoring a LL decision? It is not like we did it in secret from LL. It was widely publicised, we bought sims from LL and moved them, had lindens there while we were constructing/running it from time to time. Absolutely nothing in their ruling forbade our having our own celebration so how was that ignoring what they said?

Yes they would.
The protesting people in Child avatars did to protest the decision of LL to ban the child avatar type from SL5B. That is ignoring LL's decision and rallying to overturn it. And groups do that all time when they hear something they do not want to hear from the powers-that-be.
Many of us do not think it is a wise decision to allow these child avatar people to access Adult Zindra for any reason. Child Avatar people have proven since 2007 that they are more trouble than they are worth. The only memorable events in SL surrounding child avatars are all negative and negatively impacted everyone in SL.

Lias you are letting your mask drop more and more...

Thankfully, the very few with a narrow mind like you don't rule SL (and not RL either). Of course, you will never realize that you are in such a very small minority, because even for that your mind isn't open enough. If it was, you would learn something from all the wind blowing in your face right here.

AGAIN with the "many of us", and yet this thread sat quietly, silently, for 13 hours whilst you actually kept quiet for once, working it's way to the nether pages where it belongs. it's become obvious that it's the only thing you've got going for you, and you'll hang on to it verociously to keep the attention you seem to need so badly. it doesn't appear that you've ever cast yourself in anything but a bad light.



if you really believe that then you need to get out and about in SL more.



i must be the only one in over 50k NOT negatively impacted'

AMAZING...

Its documented incidents Daniel. You just want to ignore what I am saying and act like your feelings are hurt to garner sympathy (once again) from the community.
Don't count on it.
The small Minority includes the service provider who had enough of Child Avatars and banned them from SL5B. Please do not think that child avatars are a dead issue with those in Linden Lab that wanted that ban. Just keep going in the direction you all are going in and no one will need to insist upon your ban - you all are effectively making it a given.

My feelings are not hurt - someone like you would never be able to accomplish this. Actually, I feel sorry for you. You must live a very sad life. The people here speaking out against you don't do that because they feel sorry for the kid avatar community - there is not even a need for that. They speak out because they can't stand your imaginary facts and your making up of non existing scenarios and your claim of speaking for an imaginary group of people you call "we" and even LL themselfs. Your "documented incidents" only prove one thing: that even LL makes mistakes (as in the ban against the kid avatars displays at SL5B) and sometimes reverts them - and that you simply are not able to grasp important differences like between communities and individuals. Even though if *we* would do the same twisted thinking you do, we would demand all adult avatars to be banned from SL because L... L... promoted criminal acts and violations of the TOS "to get rid of the little bastards". Still waiting for a clarification about that from you, btw...



You really suffer from an inability to see the reality. The reality is, that *all the time*, in *every single announcement* LL made it *totally* clear, that kid avatars are an accepted and welcome group of residents (as long as they play by the rules - but that is true for *all* residents). The one exception was the later reversed ban on kid avatars as exhibitors at SL5B - since then LL made it double clear that being a kid avatar in SL is totally okay. You don't want to accept that, so you dream up new hysteric scenarios all the time.

I agree - LL makes mistakes and reverts them. That is why we discuss this mistake LL made by leaving a gap in the TOS for the child avatar community to exploit and create issues for the Adult Community.
Does this mean that a child avatar is a member of a community until they break the TOS and then they are individuals that have nothing to do with the child avatar community? How convenient.

Lias, again I ask since you ignored it before. Are you a second wave feminist? It would explain your argumentative style a LOT if so.

No mistake there. Just the continuing policy that was there all the time. LL saw your lobbying and still decided to stay on track with a very clear announcement.



It means that if one individual messes up, you don't blame the community for something they had no involvement with. Like ... nobody blames the adult avatar community for their member L... L... promoting criminal acts and TOS violations. Get the picture? No? Okay, some other examples...

Osama Bin Laden is a part of the muslim community - do we blame the muslim community for him becoming a murderer?

George W. Bush is a christian - do we blame the christian community for him becoming a criminal?

Do we blame the black community if a black man becomes a criminal? Or the white community if a white man becomes a criminal? Blame and punish all the women if a woman commits a crime?

Still don't get the picture? Ugh... You are more dense than I thought.

I have no idea what that political tag means.
I am just a person that has seen these child avatar people 'hide' behind the avatar and cause havoc on this platform for a few years not. LL saw the writing on the wall last year and began distancing themselves from these people. Now some child avatars and their ilk are posting in these forums that they can build and reside 32 meters away from Adult Content in Zindra. Several people have posted in this thread against child avatars entering Zindra - you all have thoroughly ignored them or laughed at everyone's concerns. To you all the past never happened and if ti did it is no reflection on you and the future painted by some will never happen and if it does its a elaborate trap.

Yes, that is convenient.
So when someone in a child avatar breaks the TOS then it has absolutely no reflection on the child avatar 'community'.
You may not want to to reflect badly on you all. But of course it does. And when you post in these forums and insist that only non-community member child avatar people break the TOS you come across as an apologist with blinders on.

Strange, I have only seen you post as being against it lately. Which probably means they did not feel so strongly about it that they would stick around.

Yes or no question:

When an individual in ANY community breaks the TOS should it have repercussions on the entire community they happened to be in? Bear in mind that the community involved publicly stated beforehand it did not support the action.

Yes or no.

Stick around for what? To read the same insults and denials from more child avatar people? I hold out hope that one of you can admit the child avatar community has had a somewhat tumultuous last two years, that the SL5B child avatar ban was more than a knee-jerk reaction from a few Lindens and that the depiction of eight year old children alone next to, in the lobby of or hovering over adult content is not appropriate.
The 'your wrong, everyone hates you and your attacking us for no reason' response throughout this thread just shows a complete blanket denial of any culpability from the child avatar community. It is quite shocking to actual see ALL of you stick to the same lame story and show everyone how completely oblivious you are to other viewpoints.

Of course the child avatar community needs to do some self evaluation, acknowledge the fears of some of the SL community concerning child avatars and adult content and then work with the community and Linden Lab to put a plan in place to keep everyone co-existing. As opposed to what the child avatar community have been posting in these Zindra threads since last week.

And of course you are that deeply involved in the kid avatar community that you know there was no reaction, no evaluation, no nothing after these incidents? Lias, Lias, Lias... you *really* have no idea what you are talking about.

The peaceful co-existence is not endangered by kid avatars - it is endangered by a small minority of wanna-be moralists and simple minded hysterics. By pepple like L... L... who promotes criminal acts and violations of the TOS. Any clarification from you, Lias? No? How surprising...

You do realize that when all (your word) say something that does not agree with you most sane people may wonder if they themselves are the one with the wrong viewpoint.

You mean like they actually do?

Um, it's not just the child avatar community pointing out that your arguments have no basis in reality.