As You Like It - Men Becoming Women

No, let me try to help you here. Intolerance was not my issue nor viewpoint. Hurting others was my point of view period.

Please re-read my posts. Thank you!

Which led you to showing intolerance and advocating intolerance of others (referencing segregation for instance). Obviously I am not the only one who thinks so either which shows I am reading more of your posts than you appear to be reading of mine.

Irregardless, still reeks of some people seeking to score with a heterosexual male and get their jollies off without thought or concern of the other person. That seems to be some people's game and I think that's wrong.

This post is not directed at you... just trying to follow this subject you brought up about voice modulation.

Not really it is about people who may not want to reveal the fact that they are transgendered to everyone they meet and might like to participate in voice.

I already seperatedthose who are gettiing intmate with people,, however YOU made the point about voice verifying friends, not just lovers!

If someone used a voice modulator with a lover then of course that is not a good thing, but with a friend who they dont feel the need or dont feel ready to revealall the details about their life with.

Oh.... and i dont date men..... period, nor does my partner, actually most tg women identify as bi or gay. More often than not they identify as gay women. They date other women.

I agree that anyone decieveing another to get the 'jollies off is wrong' however YOU made this about friends who dont tell the whole story,, that is what I am replying to with such distain.

Intolerance? Where exactly?

I agree with the posters who say there are some posts showing extreme over sensitivity of issues that were never said.

Again, my point of view is that this can and does hurt others. But, no one gives a crap.


So.......... what's the point then.

I need to step out of this thread. The bigioted, intolerant attitude of some disgusts me. You (the collective you) dont want to understand, you preferintolerance where you can have an us versus them attitude.

The fact that people's sexuality as been brought into a debate on gender issues time and time again, shows just how little you understand. One's sexuality and one's gender are two different issues.

I urge you to look inside yourself and see where this ttitude comes from, what you are so god damn afraid of about someone who is different from you. Oh and maybe just maybe go back to where in this thread i posted SCIENTIFIC information about this topic. Understand that this is no choice for those that live like this,, that SL is the ONE place in their lives they can feel whole

I have never had sexual partner that didn't know. Most of us in this situation do
care but their are times certain things aren't important for others to know unless
their is lot of trust already there.
It is like asking every Married man or woman in SL to who is poseballing with hookers or whomever to tell their partner how often theu masturbate to poseballs..
Do think they are going to do it? No. They won't and it not my right to tell others what to do
but I wouldn't be doing that personally it just against my personal ethics.
Why should ts or tg person have to announce to everyone that they may be masturbating to what their sex organs look like in first life?
Not all of us are trying to get other avatars in bed or poseballing while "doing it" you wouldn't know if we were anyway.
Heck how many people you know if what they are doing right now unless they told you?

You said people who play opposite genders should stick to places "that are meant for them" and that is an intolerant viewpoint.

Again though I spelled it out you are choosing not to understand that is not hurting others I do and others don't give a crap about but the intolerance.

Let me give you an example:

Some one gets robbed by a a person who happens to be purple skinned (chosen to avoid stereotypes), they are hurt badly and angry. They no longer want to be around purple people.

Does that mean all purple people should stick to only their segregated areas? If you think no then surely you can see the similarities with what you have advocated in this conversation?

The point? Getting hurt by a person that has a certain trait does not give you the right to be intolerant to everyone who has that trait.

If you feel otherwise or cannot accept that then you are broken in my view, very broken.

No, I brought that point up about men saying that. There are men on SL who won't even talk to a female avatar without a mic or let you in their club. I just mentioned that because it seemed to pertain to this topic.

As far as me, I don't want to get emotionally involved in SL, meaning making a SL relationship a rl relationship except for friendship. I already have a rl heterosexual lover relationship. As far as flirting, it's fun IF it's a man. If I ever had a best friend flirting/caring online relationship and then found out they were a woman... I'd be pretty upset. So, I'm going mic only if IT'S NOT just a casual acquaintance or party atmosphere. If it's a man who would like to get to know me as a woman, then I'd ask for mic. With casual acquaintances it's just small talk and their private life is none of my business, and it's about fun. If a woman in a male avatar hits on me, then that's my business. Just being friendly with all kinds of people, furries, aliens, Vampires on SL is fine and fun. But this gender switching can be a receipe for disaster unfortunately for some and needs to be handled with some caring.

Where did I say that? Can I say, "oh brother now" This melodrama is getting out of hand, sadly.

What if what you just instead of gender terms were used as a race or religion?
If you said, "I would be really upset if I found out they weren't from the race or they weren't true gerontologist like their avatar looks like"?
If you got first life relationship and aren't doing anything intimate or sexual why doesn't it matter who the person is on the other side of screen that you will never met?
Is it only okay for heterosexual men and women to fool around online providing everyone is heterosexual they are with even if they are married?
Do you really think people want to go around deceiving and slipping something over you to get something from you?
If really true why are you even bothering having relationships here?
If you really concerned about it just don't get in any intimate situation, why isn't that a option?

Race is not important to me. And I don't care what color of hair you have in real life or what car you drive or don't drive.

As far as your other questions, people can get hurt there too. And I'm not involved, but some day maybe I'd like to make a life long best friend, and they'd probably be male because I have mostly women in my rl family including cousins!

People can get hurt over lot of things.
Only real option to avoid ever being hurt is never having any one as friend.
Trust me I have been hurt and keep to myself a lot of time, I wouldn't want to hurt
or deceive anyone because of very unpleasant birth condition I have.
I am already hurting enough, why would I want to inflict that on someone else that not going to understand in first place?
I have no interest in deceiving you. Maybe some out there like myself may appear to be but
we have no intention in deceiving you we are just trying to have our own lives like everyone else.
You don't go telling everyone what your sex organs look like and every medical condition you have had with them do you? Have you had a DNA test? Are you sure you are the gender
you've been brought up? The only way you will ever know completely is with DNA test.
What would happen if you got DNA test and your failed your gender test i.e the gender you thought you was isn't the same gender as your DNA? Are you going to tell this to everyone you met who is friendly with you?

Yeah I'm sure I'm a woman.. I've had enough periods and cramps and female awful ovarian surgeries to know I'm a woman.

And yes people can get hurt from a lot of things, but this particular issue is a game to some with no forethought of others as are other games by people not doing this in particular but they just do their games for hurt and nothing more. Their intent is to hurt, nothing more and those people suck and these are heterosexual people I know.

Regarding the issue someone brought up about using SL to be a different gender say before they might consider fully going through the operation might be a very good thing and have a positive outcome. That's cool. I just don't like people who play games with the intention of hurt, but that could be 1 out of a 1000 in a female avatar; it could be more, it could be less. I don't know. I'm just saying, tread lightly with others' hearts and be real when and if you feel you can trust.

I did not say you said exactly that but that is the gist of what you were saying.





It certainly seems that you are saying these things from the quotes above, remember I am paraphrasing here:

1) "Transgendered people are going to feel more comfortable with their own kind." This is an often used reason for all kinds of segregation.\, with the inference that the rest of us are going to make other places as uncomfortable as possible for you outside those areas.

2) "I am not trying to segregate anyone". ahh but you did, see quote one and my point about it.

3) "Segregation is inevitable so get used to it". It is only inevitable for as long as intolerance to others exists, we should not be accepting of it but push back as hard as possible as has been done these posts.

Also you are assuming that people playing opposite gender avs are "hiding", that is a disingenuous device to cast mistrust against such people. Are you hiding because you do not use your own name or because you av does not necessarily look exactly like you?

If these things are not what you meant then I would advise you make that clear because that at least is the point where I began to think you were being advocating segregation. It seems I was not the only one either.

Its the fact that you assume more than another other type of person that a transgendered person is going to do that to you.
I have to tell you there are many "normal" guys I have dated in SL who are just as much into mind games and wanting to inflict emotional pain on people by intent, so why single out one group?

I was talking to friend about this forum post he was telling me about how
he went to place that was suppose to be GBLT friendly and was banned because he
was black man, he was told he was welcome providing he came back as white female
and wasn't really black.
He is convinced tolerance really doesn't exist here and maybe he is right.
The truth is from my experience those TG friendly places only serve white female avatars the rest aren't welcomed.
I wouldn't be allowed in many of those places unless I had special tag or permission.
Neither would my partner who is black in here and in first life.

I agree with you FD and your friend's experience is so screwed up. It is funny too in a tragic way that my objection to intolerance to some might prove I am a man, but in fact it would never occur to them I just might be black or jewish perhaps instead does it?

Only women can have ovarian surgeries ya know, just sayin' and all

And that's just so effed up..


I came to think of a comment on a blog somewhere, someone spoke of how some RP a man in RL, and are their true selves as females in SL. I thought that was a good way of putting it.

There are medical cases of people not knowing and having all sort of reproductive
problems for years and only finding out they were intersexed after further screening and
in some cases they were told one thing about their ovaries that I have found out they were lied to only found at after the fact when they forced the Doctors to give over medical records be open and read that his ovaries weren't ovaries at all but testes.
So it not always simple thing when it comes to true gender identification in all cases around female or male.

Nature is a strange and fickle force for sure.

I run a female only club. Both you and your partner would be welcomed. Frommy understanding of your posts o and our partner are FTM tg. Either way, ou would be welcomed, ifyou wanted to come along

My partner wrote this, i think it sums it up pretty well


It is called : Just dont be yourself

I would never discuss my partners status but he is black male here and and in irl.
And is with me for last 5 years but we have both chosen to celibate. Him for religous
reasons, me for personally it has to do with trauma, medical and gender reasons.
I am just grumpy artist male elf here, irl I live as male who is Gay Celibate relationship for five years because I was assigned female, but haven't all my surgeries but I had
period of my life from age 2 to 6 where I was told I was freak and not female.