As You Like It - Men Becoming Women

Nope. I'm smarter than you think I am. Much smarter.

And your typed communication is *full* of poets, authors and (spits) journalists?

Pep (Loves it when people underestimate him)

It's much easier to express oneself well in text than voice.

And if I'm underestimating you, then you're just trolling. Go back under your rock.

I understand it; I just don't agree. If you are unable to express yourself as well in voice as in text then please accept my commiserations.

Pep (I am *even* better orally and aurally)

Damn! sure, burst my bubble...

.d

Originally Posted by 4318723350112047 String
"Being yourself doesn't mean being serious, Brenda!

I can put a silly avatar on and have fun with it. But I'm always me and the people I'm having fun with know that I'm not really a donkey or whatever. "


String, Methinks thou dost protest too much

Indeed, that would be your trademark.Old Troll, I already said I don't even have a mic, so it has nothing to do with how I'm expressing myself. It's not my skills that are the issue, it's everyone else's.

The thing is if you're not man, you're not gay, you're not transgender or transexual, you most likely never been in situation that because of your sexuality or gender expression put you in risk of violence have you?
If not then you don't get the issues you just see it as
anti-female, you don't see the acceptable anti-maleness either.
When you bring up issues like this you don't see the other side of this because you
don't understand it.
In order for something to be pro female it often at the expense of males, anti-male.
If Men are becoming Females here is because it safe to do so.
In first life world when it comes to Men, certain gender and sexual expressions there is lot
of homophobia, fear of violence and actual violence.
You don't get the concept of two spirt or the history of it.
Two spirit people were bridges of understanding both of the genders. they were healers.
The thing is if you don't know what it like to be in between the genders in modern society
with believes, prejudices and bs that goes with it hard to understand.
Most people these days aren't willing to see how things are for those who are different then them, they just want to be right and maintain their own concept of reality because
it is only true one for themselves.
Two spirits were guides to understanding but if no one wants to see they can't make them.
Their roles weren't tricksters i.e the coyote, they were healers to help men understand women, women to understand men better.
If you don't or can't see the problems and fears of one gender, you can't understand why they are hostile to the other gender.
Male culture has lot of fears involving being emasculated, weak, penetrated, turned gay, losing their masculinity and roles they were taught that made them men,etc. whether they want to admit or not, they won't admit it because fear is for weaklings.
Women or some their is more comfort in be vulernable, being emotional but also dark side
of victimization too.
But you know what Men can be victimized to by their bodies, emotional, sexual and physical needs and environment too whether they want to admit it or not.

Then I DO understand it? Coz in my comment I noted that homophobia and gay-bashing was evident in the thread.

I liek to bring up issues liek this coz I DON'T understand them. There's plenty of antifemale sentiment out there. Gay society does not have a monopoly on being persecuted in teh real world.

Excuuuse me???!!! My sexuality or gender expression doesn't "put me in risk of violence"???
Wha?
Next you'll say that a girl wearing a miniskirt provokes violence from men and deserves teh consequences.

It was a question actually.
Does your gender or sexual expression open you up to violence?
We both now that is wrong that what someone wears provokes violence.
But you know what their are people who believe she is asking for regardless if
we approve.
What would happen to you if you wore a mini-skirt and walked down the street?
Would you feel safe? And why?
Where would not wear that mini-skirt and why?

I'll be honest I think its completely natural for guys to consider what it would be like as a woman, or even to have thought about men sexually, and this doesn't necessarily make you homosexual or even "bicurious". If you haven't considered what it would be like to be with a man then how could you even be disgusted by it!? I don't like the idea of completely defining myself by my sexuality because I think most men have had fantasies that include just about any conceivable sexual arrangement at one time or another but would never admit it. This doesn't mean you would act on it, or even want to act on it, but I think a lot goes on in the minds of most men that we would never admit.

Yes maybe but there is also equal amount of Men even thinking about this and admitting
it would produce all sort of fearful thoughts of being physically harmed that come out in
need to lash out angrily, make a stand, go into combat mode.
Big part of male psyche is the warrior and defender of what they believe is right.
Often what is right is product of what they have been taught morally and culturally.
I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just saying it is what it is until people especially the Men decide to question and change it.
A man secure in himself and his sexuality wouldn't need to go off into combat mode
and join gay bashing mob or need for power or need to go into rape, pillage type mentality to punish loose Women to prove their masculinity.
In same sense Women wouldn't need to control or dictate or give ugly dirty looks to another
Woman wearing a mini-skirt or not wearing a bra, or seeing a threat there if they weren't convinced that something was wrong with that.

I agree with that, if i were to make this statement around my real life friends they would immediately be thinking: "SPANKY"S GAY".! lol I already was verbally attacked in world for my posts in this thread as being gay so I can imagine what it would be like in real life. But before these people get themselves all worked about this they should be honest with themselves. I would bet everything I own that the majority of men have considered what its like to be with other men. I think some men find these ideas and fantasies more attractive than being straight, or being with women for one reason or another, and if they end up going that route more power to them.

But, how can you know who someone is if they are hiding their true self from you? Then it's just a superficial relationship. And we all have those on SL. In RL, they're call acquaintances rather than friendships. It's the small talk thing.

However, I still think it's wrong if others feelings are not considered. But now I'm hearing if "I'm going to get close to someone, I tell them." I think that's cool and the right thing to do because then you show you care about that person on the other side of the screen.

Thanks for the kind words Oryx, it is rare I get anyone leaping to my defense

In my opinion if someone is suspicious of peoples genders and it is a big deal for them most people are going to seem suspicious at one time or another, it eventually induces paranoia if taken to extremes.
I mean heck, isn't it an often repeated meme that there are in fact no women on the internet at all, let alone in SL for goodness sakes. This always gives me a hoot when I read it.

I find it saddening and tragic if my defense of the right of an individual to be what they want to be in SL and keep their RL private causes some to think that means I must be a man instead of a woman who is just plain sick of intolerance in all its forms.

I am not going to start protesting and making huge declarations like a lot of people do about how I really am in RL with amusing anecdotes to try to somehow convince those who think I am one thing or another. To heck with them, let them think of me what they will, it not change who or what I am in RL and their opinion means so little to me, so what does it matter?
I personally don't find being thought of as the opposite gender half as bad as some of the things people could be thinking about me.

The one thing about my RL I will say is that those who know me know that I have never been one to give too much of a crap about what people think or let it worry me.

Ummmm sorry the friendships I have dont make people spill every detail about themselves right up. Wow in fact I still have things I dont tell my friends, why? becuase there are things they dont need to know, things which are mine and mine alone.

What i dont think you get are tg people ARE being their true self. More so in fact in here in a gender which doesnt match their physical appearace than they would be if you met them in RL. Why? because it is the essense of who they are.

Of course others feelings should be considered, which is why I do think that if they get close to someone (ie beyond friendship into something intimate and serious) they should speak up. But the fact that you would EXEPCT a friend to tell you tells me it is you who is superficial. You only want to know them if their insides match their outsides. For that I feel sorry for you, becuase some of the closest people to me I have later found out are tg, including my partner. I wouldnt expect any of them to tell me (expect my partner) they chose to. But it has taken them 12 months of knowing me to say it to me.

In your eyes that would have made our friendship superficial.

Bekka hun I remember chatting to you quite a few times in world. You are one of those people that truely shows what I am talking about. You are you and although I often didnt get you at times the one thing I did get is that you are definately a female soul.

You would be suprised how many times my partner has been told I'm a guy. Which we just giggle at cos well, they have it the wrong way around at least physically.

I know bekka it mattered because someone who didnt know you made snap judgements about you. They didnt take the time to know you, they decided you must be a guy on whatever pre concieved ideasthey came up with

Oh yes.... and my partner could pass any voice verification without a voice modulator... she did for 8 months before coming out (and that included voicing with me everyday ) And I hope bekka wouldnt mind me saying, but I have been on voice with her, she would pass too.


And I could pass any voice verification as my male alt with a voice modulator...



Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but voice is far from a foolproof way to test for gender

See, this is what I was hearing from Gabrielle. "I don't give a crap."

What exactly don't you give a crap about? And may I ask "Do you give a crap if you hurt someone else? Or is that of no matter also?"

Voice modulators. Why? Sounds like ill intent.

The majority of men I know who have been asked say they want to vomit. It makes them sick to think of it. There really are heterosexual people who are very heterosexual.

My rl bf toured with famous bands and he was gorgeous with hair down to his butt, not to mention adorable all over with an incredible smile to melt for. (Got hundreds of women too! and hundreds in just each month... lol). During his band tours when visiting bars in New York or certain places where there were a lot of gays the band members had to pretend they were partners just so they could be left alone from being hit on just so they could go have a beer in peace. One band member did get stuck in a cab with what he thought was a women... until the skirt came up. See man exit car screaming.

Are you actually following this conversation? You are taking one phrase and failing to keep the context. I mean you cannot even spell my name correctly despite it being in front of you post after post.
You are making a huge assumption it seems that I am one of the people pretending to be a woman, so where did I say I don't care if I hurt others?

I didn't even say that man pretending to be women don't hurt others. Like everyone they have the potential to hurt others but I don't share your view that pretending to be a woman has any bearing on their ability to hurt anyone.
A man just being a man, or a woman being a woman has just as much ability to hurt you in SL.

Just to spell it out because it seems obvious to me that either you are clueless about what I mean or that you are deliberately being obtuse, my "don't give crap" statement is whether you or anyone else thinks I am playing an opposite gender and that is as far as that statement goes.

Don't let that get in the way of your crusade though.

If you don't give a crap, then why do you keep crusading?

I dont USE one. I just know that theywork, my partner and I have mucked around with one. My male avie at this point doesnt voice. I have a fairly andrgonous voice and could likel voice without one and still pass as a guy if need to.

There is NO intent. I was just making the point that people can use them and tht voice is far from foolproof.

As I said before my partner hasnt and doesnt use one, is a DJ and wasnt found out for 8 months. She is openly out as being tg now. But she passed as a woman on voice for 8 months

Again you don't seem to be following the conversation, let me give you another big helping hand, try to keep up.

I care about the issue of people being intolerant of others generally, I just don't give a crap what you or anyone else thinks of me personally when it is to lay down a judgment (and that goes not just for if you think I am opposite gendered but in anything I do you or anyone else judges me on).

Is that clear yet?

The only one crusading here is you, the rest of us are trying to show you that your viewpoints are offensive to us.